Maybe controversial question BUT (m)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Maybe controversial question BUT (m)
34
Thu, 08-19-2004 - 8:45pm
it has to do with living together.

When I was younger, I was all about living together to see if things "clicked" but now that I am older/more experienced I really don't see that as being anything to experiment with. Especially with a child. Now I realize I might be upsetting some people but I don't think it is the right way to go.

My view now of marriage - like I was telling my mother today should be based on the fact that you both love and RESPECT each other and you believe that you can "stand" the person forever. I know that sounds unromantic but I don't mean it so. I guess I am saying that you realize the persons faults and can accept them and you are comfortable that person can respect your views and goals in life and love who you are. I really REALLY feel that if you are going to live together you have made that decision and are going to stick with it.

Jack asked me today why people get divorced. A kind of 3rd grade question that does not have a simple answer but am I the only one who thinks if two people get in a relationship possessing what I mentioned above and the desire to make a FAMILY (even when it is only 2 adults) that divorce wouldn't happen so much. I did tell him that I felt many divorces were the cause of one person in the marriage most often than not. But who knows.

Maybe I am off on this but living together without feeling marriage is the next step which you are clearly going to make unless some horrible inconsistancy in expectations occurrs, is just not the way to go.

Any takers on this? I think that time spent communicating to each other what you want is better spent apart and living together is as serious as marriage and when child are involved is very important.

One more point I want to make on this is that in the beginning of a relationship it has momentum...you can just go along with the FLOW which can go all the way to getting married and even having a child. But until that momentum stops and the relationship becomes a choice, it isn't reality based. Maybe that is the BIG issue.

I would love to hear opinions on this. Go ahead and flame me but I will say that I have had the view of living together and changed my mind for very good reasons and in this case I don't believe anyone can enlighten me to change my mind.

Laura

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:06pm
It just doesn't go by rigid rules...that everyone should do it the same way, and that's the only "right" way.

Trav and I are having a crisis during our first year of dating. He's been away for 8 months of that time, and for 6 months we didn't get to see each other at all. No "honeymoon phase" for us...we're either serious about sticking with this to see what happens or we're not. Period.

ANd even in a living together situation where you "intend" to marry, the fact that you don't means you have an out...so it's not permanent despite whatever intentions you might have.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:19pm
When we were dating and engaged, the whole world revolved around me. We got married, and BOY did that stop.

Things that we had discussed, IN DETAIL, in premarital counseling, changed. In premarital counseling we discussed division of household chores (we both worked full time, and at that time, I was taking a 3/4 load of college classes) and how it would be split evenly. HA! We got married and moved in together and household chores were MY job. Woman's work, to be exact.

OUr sex life while dating was not great. He said several times that it was his guilt for having premarital sex, and once we got married, it would change. HA! Once we got married I discovered our sex life would NEVER improve (despite counseling) because his mom had pounded into his head all of his life that men who wanted sex and asked for it from their wives were disrespectful and unable to control their "sinful urges" and that sex was ONLY for procreation. He became very cruel and judgmental about my sexual past which he knew full well about the entire time we were dating and engaged. My husband actually told me I was a slut because I tried to initiate sex with him.

The entire time we were dating, he worked nights and I worked days. At night, I either would be at school, or I would be at study groups (made up of both men and women) or out with my friends. I was not sitting at home waiting for him to get home (which would have been absolutely ridiculous as he didn't get home until 3 am and I worked at 8 am). He LOVED that. Loved that I was independent and had my own life and my own friends. We got married - and that was ALL unacceptable. I couldn't attend study groups if there were any men in them, I couldn't go out with my friends, as it wasn't appropriate for a married woman.

Shall I go on? I can. For years. And years. 7 years, to be exact.

Although he never cheated on me - I felt very betrayed. I felt like I had been duped by the old bait and switch. What I thought I was getting - what he TOLD me (and the minister that married us) I was getting was NOT what I got. Not even close.

Had we lived together for ANY amount of time - I would never have married him. That would have saved me 7 years of beating my head against the wall, guilt, hurt, anguish, betrayal, etc., etc., etc.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:26pm
I don't agree. That's not momentum. That's a CHOICE you make. There is a natural progression of events, yes, but not momentum. Not things that just keep that relationship progressing. If there was momentum, people wouldn't be dating for 5 years with the girl saying "when am I going to get a ring?" and the guy saying "Everything is perfect the way it is!" Momentum would have them married with a house and 2.5 kids and a dog.

And like I said, I'll never change your mind and you'll never change mine. At all.

And on the "peopl who have been married may have an upper hand at not having that occur negatively". Wrong. Proven by statistics (and not from biased studies - from court records). Second marriages have a MUCH higher failure rate than first marriages. Being married before doesn't give anyone the "upper hand" - if anything - it forces them to start out marriage with a big black mark already on the score card.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-25-2004
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:50pm
I see. Thanks for sharing.

Do you still feel the same way now as before about being married? I mean with dual careers, staying home, household chores, things of that nature? (Maybe I should have started that as a discussion in a new thread?)

The reason I am asking is because I am not sure if I was really ready to be married the first time around - I wanted my career more than my husband. When my son came along I switched and then wanted to stay home, etc. But my husband (now ex) did not like that and my staying home meant he had less time/money for seeing his mom and he didn't like that - needless to say that the MIL issue killed it for us - there is a longer story of course but that is a summary of why the first one went into the tank.

But now I want a more traditional role. I am not sure why. I want to stay home with the kids and be a wife and put my career second to marriage - maybe this is age setting in? It did happen to Madonna after all LOL!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:59pm
"Do you still feel the same way now as before about being married? I mean with dual careers, staying home, household chores, things of that nature?"

Yes. Last year when my dh was promoted - we agreed that we would manage our p's and q's perfectly - and by September of 2004 - I would be able to work part time (which as long timers here can tell you is what I really wanted at that time.) It's August. There is no way I'm going part time in September, even though we could afford for me to quit altogether tomorrow. I love my job, I love what I do. We definitely have dual careers, I have no desire to stay home (I did with my oldest and hated it - my ex LOVED it - because it is what women are supposed to do) at all. We do split household chores, however, because he works more hours than I do and makes three times what I make - I do more - which I am happy to do. BECAUSE he views me and treats me as his EQUAL PARTNER. Not as a woman doing "woman's work."

I don't want my career more than my husband - but just like being a wife makes up a huge part of who I am, my job also makes up a huge part of who I am. My career is DEFINITELY second to my marriage, third to my family - but it is a huge part of who I am.

When I first married my ex - I was a very naive, ignorant, downright foolish 19 years old. And YES I wanted my career. And I wanted to go to school. But NOTHING was more important than my marriage. If that weren't true - I wouldn't have made all of the concessions I did and fought to keep it together for 7 years. I would have thrown up my hands in defeat and said "THIS was a HUGE mistake!" the first 3 months, like I really wanted to do. I discovered after 7 years though, that it didn't matter HOW HARD I worked - I could give 100% - since my ex wasn't giving even 10% - nothing could be done to save it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 1:03pm
After living with someone for 5 yrs, I wouldn't do it again. I had a ring on my finger but he would take off at the mention of setting a date. We had a child together. We were common law, but never made the next step. I'm glad now, as it would have been harder to go through a divorce.

The reason now I won't live with someone before marraige? In a common law situation all your things are his as well. My ex started pawning my things at the end for his drug habit. Things that my parents had bought me at 12 years old, and things that were gifts to me that had a lot of sentimental value. The cops said that since we were common law, he had a right to do that- even to lend out my car to a drug dealer.

Yep, so now, I am very weary of living together.

But in the three years since breaking up, I have barely had a bf- most guys I have met don't want a single mom. So I guess I just feel now that I'm destined to be alone...

WAHHHH!!!

But I would like to date, become engaged after building a relationship, get married and get a place together. But first I need a date... :)

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 1:08pm

Hi


The only 2cents I'm going to throw in here is that I think this is a very personal thing.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 3:08pm
Even with as far as we've come in equality for women, isn't it funny that men don't get asked "do you want your career more than your family?"

Having a career does NOT mean you don't want your family, husband, etc.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 3:26pm
I think it's not age, but where your own head is at and what you want.

I am older, kids are getting independent. I did the "submissive wifey staying at home" thing and am now divorced from that, thank God. I'm ready to start on some career goals of my own. So I guess it's just how you feel about certain times in life, and there's not a set pattern.

Madonna hasn't given up her career for her family, has she?

http://home.madonna.com/

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 4:25pm
Your situation is totally different! Not only are you older and most likely not planning on having more children? but your children have grown and you may not ever want to marry! My point is for people do want to get married and have more children and have small children already. You are in a totally different place!

L