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| Tue, 09-09-2008 - 4:53pm |
I have posted on other boards, but have really gotten tired of people thinking a person's divorce doesn't affect their dating life. So, I thought I would look for some kindred spirits on here. I am a single mother of an eight year old. Recently (in the last few years) I finally decided to start dating. For a while, I just wanted to focus on my daughter, but I finally hit the point where I was ready to discover if all men were idiots like my ex (I know they aren't, I just needed experience to prove it to me). I went out with several men. Some I dropped, others dropped me

Well, I haven't been in a LTR since my divorce, but one thing I can say is that if you don't speak up, you will both be guessing as to what the other one is feeling. If he is pulling back, ask what the problem is.
My ex had me well trained to never ask questions, to never express my anger or question what he was doing. He would turn everything around like I was the quack. So I really learned to be a doormat.
If you read my other post you can see that sometimes if you speak up and demand some respect that you will get some answers. Sometimes the answers aren't what you want, but at least you know where you stand.
Welcome!
Hello and Welcome, Alma-
Your post is well thought out and I appreciate your spilling it here for us to give our input. I believe we've all been there in one way or another.. in a relationship where there is a push/pull thing going on.
How you describe things, it seems that he wants to keep you at friend status for the reason you suspect, to avoid getting hurt. Really though, its just a matter of semantics. Because if you are having all of this intimacy and connection you are more than friends already. If I was you, I think that I would tell him that regardless of what he would like to call "us", you need to be in a relationship that is more than friends. I would tell him that the actions you are experiencing together already qualify you for more than friends. And really, if you were to up and leave and never call him again..it would hurt him just as bed no matter if he calls you a friend or girlfriend, right? I wonder if he understands that?
I get being scared and pulling back. But you are the counterpart and have just as much say in what goes. It comes down to what you need in this relationship. If you desire an exclusive one, then a talk about trust and faith in one another is warranted. What is a relationship without trust and going out on that (sometimes terrifying) limb, right? And if he can't... then he is not ready to date. If he can not get past the word friends even after discussing it, then maybe he is not healed from his marriage and needs to not date or see anyone romantically. Hope my two cents helps in some way.
Edited to add: Yes, I believe firmly that baggage plays huge rolls in our relationships. But also that baggage can be left behind with courage and self discovery, and sometimes therapy. It take work to let go of the bags, but it can be done.
Welcome to our board! I hope to hear back from you on the outcome.
First welcome.
I think you pegged it right that on his baggage.
Welcome to the Board!!
Honestly, counseling is a fantastic idea! I have no issues with it at all. Unfortunately, I am unemployed and presently in a law suit with my last employer (I was illegally forced to resign due to my epilepsy...long story). I haven't been able to get hired due to what my past employer says to prospective employers. It is a vicious circle. Either way, I don't have the funds to pay for counseling right now though I really would like to go.
I think the ironic part is that, slowly but surely, he and I are forcing each other to face our fears. When I met him, I was still in semi-quasi doormat mode with my ex and, at the same time, in "Don't mess with me!" mode...also with my ex. I was trying to establish my independence much too forcefully while at the same time bowing the exh wishes to "protect" my daughter. My bf sat me down and told me frankly that he wasn't fond of his exw either and she was just as irresponsible with their kids. He told me that I had to find a happy medium and form a working tolerance with one another for everyone's sake. He helped me through all of that. Now that he has learned how cruel my exh was to me, he still encourages us getting along, but gets extremely protective of my daughter and me when exh gets overbearing and out of control. Selfish I know, but I like that.
As for me, when I met him, I could tell that his wife had him wrapped around her little finger during the marriage. He wasn't a doormat, but he wanted to be the perfect husband and didn't put up much of a fuss. They were "friends" according to him when I first met him. It was hard for me to digest. I started asking if she never made him upset, worried or angry. He simply told me that he dealt with that within himself. I told him that maybe he should have a bit more of an opinion on some things. Slowly, I saw him looking for that balance. The one where he is working co-operatively on raising the kids, but also where he makes his wishes known too. He started asking me questions about the boy's schooling (I am a teacher by trade) and if he should be questioning things. I wasn't getting into the middle of it, but told him that if he had doubts, he should raise them. He is now to the point where he lets her know where he stands and if he's irritated. Not to annoy her, but to be heard. It is a lot of progress on both our parts.
As for other relationships...He was like me. His focus was the kids and only the kids for a long time. He started dating about the same time I did. Like me, he searched online and had several less than pleasant outcomes. Still, he has shared about one woman he dated for about a month. He let himself get close to her. As he did, he said she began to confide more and more in him. By the end of the month, his feelings were increasing when he realized that he was becoming a, "...shoulder to cry on about her divorce...". I felt badly for him because in the end, she decided to go win back her exhusband. I know this didn't help his feeling of being abandoned by women.
Thanks for the warm welcome by the way and the reassurance that baggage, though needing to be dealt with, does affect our dating lives!
It is SO nice to have supportive people!!! Thank you all so much!
You are right. No matter what happens, if we ever separate it will hurt both of us immensely no matter what we call ourselves. When I said he avoids the word "friends", I meant that he won't refer to me as his friend. Almost as though he is trying to make that conversation disappear. I think, still, that he never expected me to tell him I had feelings for him, but he had already dropped the "friends" bomb and didn't know how to get out of it.
When I met him, I would agree with you that he was not healed from his marriage. I was a good 6-9 months ahead of him on that one (we divorced around the same time). As time is passing, I see the healing happening with him. Part of his issue, I think, is that she controlled the relationship. Part of me holding back and not completely flipping out when he talked to me about this is that I want him to have a sense of control over what happens.
I won't lie though. I know darn well that I need to take ownership for my own problems. My biggest problem and fear is
Well, I'm going to answer your questions a bit out of order.
What I wanted out of this board I have already gotten in spades. We all need validation. Frankly, I needed a little validation that I wasn't crazy in thinking that baggage effects our relationships. I know that fact should be obvious, but many of my friends thought I was making it up. I needed to know that there were others out there who had been through what I had been through or, at the very least, could understand where I was coming from.
Our relationship, whatever anyone wishes to call said relationship, is my first one built exactly as I have always wanted a relationship to be. Above all else, we are best friends. My parents were the same way...best friends and lovers. It made their relationship one of the healthiest I've ever witnessed. Deep down, I would love to be in a true relationship with him. But when all is said and done, no matter what and the smoke clears, I want to still have my friend there no matter what happens. I know we will always be friends, but if I must be truthful, I would at least like to TRY to be more. If it doesn't work out, well, at least we tried and we can laugh about it 20 years down the road because we'll always be such close friends. That's what I would like.
So, could I be ok with a friendship? Yes. Yes I could. I went into this proposed friendship ready to do just that when he started throwing me curve balls. Ironically, none of those curve balls were of the physical nature. All of them were him bringing kids and family into it, giving me affectionate nicknames, becoming protective, and my personal fav, planning for "our future" though he nevers actually mentions what we'll be in the proposed future. He's thrown me enough curve balls at this point that my full-out effort at friendship only has been futile, which leads me to my next point.
You asked if I was ok with the "rules" I laid out. Some were knee-jerk reactions to protect myself and my daughter. It didn't take long for him to begin paying for my meals. As I mentioned in another response, I am temporarily unemployed...long story. He would rush into the establishment ahead of me, claiming to have to go to the restroom and would pull aside the waiter, hostess, whatever and tell them we were on the same ticket "...no matter what she tells you...". It frustrated me and I told him I felt like a burden. It was then he suggested I try for a job where he worked. It is a haul to drive that far. He just laughed and told me what he makes. Let's just say that I applied and am waiting and I no longer argue when he picks up the tab.
As for my daughter, I did that in case he or I decided to drop everything. It went completely the other direction. My daughter sees him as a father figure. When he buys something special for his boys, he gets one for her too. Once, a kid down the street threatened her. She was very upset. He offered to go down and talk to his mother if she wanted him to. She has never forgotten that. Finally, when I figured out he had no plans on disappearing and I knew I wasn't going anywhere, I dropped that "rule" too.
The intimacy issue was a more difficult one for me to deal with. If the question is do I miss it then my emphatic answer is "Oh yeah!" But frankly, I needed the break. If you read my other responses, you'll see why. He has been an angel about all of it. I know he's interested, but he respects my wishes and hasn't pressed the issue. Only recently has he been joking around, but never, ever asks. In fact, he apologizes after joking. I know these are hints. I'm not clueless. Frankly, I am so awed by the respect he has shown overall that I am beginning to reconsider this "rule" as well. It is something I let him know tonight, actually. Sure, the intimacy is something we both miss, but moreover, I think we both miss being as close as humanly possible. Intimacy is wonderful, but having someone hold you until you fall asleep is absolutely irreplaceable. We both miss it.
As for him being willing to work on his baggage, I think he is. It is a slow process. Overcoming your fears always is. But he is doing more in the last 2 months than he has in the year plus that I have known him to express how he feels. Granted, these are baby steps but hey, you have to start somewhere. He openly calls me affectionate names, he has said, point blank that he cares so much for me that he is protective of me. He lets people we are around know that he and I are "we". I am never introduced as just his friend. He plans for the future regarding us. If I get ill or have issues with my epilepsy, he is right there or, if he is travelling, he is calling every 10 minutes to see if I'm ok. This is all new and it all speaks volumes to me. There is something to be said for, "Actions speak louder than words"...though honestly, I wouldn't mind hearing the words either. ;-)
Hey Alma..
I wanted to comment on how well thought out and introspective you are.That goes a long way in relationships and life in general! You are aware of the baggage and that in itself