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| Wed, 12-26-2007 - 12:46am |
Well girls, I have to say it again.
After a very difficult week, I had to call it quits for MA. A bunch of yellow flags turned out to be too many red flags for me. I can try to sum it up - I am tired and tired from all of it.
First of all, I feel he is very desperate for a wife and has been way too pushy with the amount of time he wants to spend and with that topic in general. Although he is 45 and never married, he desperately wants to be married. And I feel he has said I love you way too soon. He also gave me gifts he had been saving for a future wife and it just flipped me out. They were not personalized for me at all.
IN addition to this he has some real communication issues. I think he has the dating part down pat. But he is unable to empathize or listen to someone else and interact with them. Plus he does a lot of socially inept things. I don't think he wants to come across as an insensitive jerk but he does. I feel he was also very selfish about wanting me to do favors for him when I am busy and had cooked a lot. It just felt like one big intrusion.
It is sad because we are two quality people who have a high school history. And with this in mind I really tried my very best to communicate with him but felt like the tree in the forest that falls and no one hears her.
DS just left and so I am going to focus on cleaning the house and getting work done and getting better - I have a bit of a cold.

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WOW!!!
Priscilla,
Thanks for your kind words.
Unfortunately, he cannot be taught in my opinion and from my experience.
Yes, I was very happy in the beginning because he is very smart and he wants a relationship and he likes me.
But deeper into it, I can see he has a lot of issues with not having had a wife and making that his life's mission to find one. So the speed at which he pushes things becomes very scary no matter how many times I ask him to slow down or to stop talking about marriage, relationships, his past relationships and the relationships he likes that he sees right now.
He has a real problem with doing things that are so socially inept they are a red flag that I cannot fix. The most recent is that he sent me a list of WW2 guns and machine guns that he collects that he wants me to show my DS so he can teach him how to use them. I said not til he is 40! and really didn't like it - but tried to understand that it is his passion and collection so told him nicely that I do not like guns and do not want them around my son. He got very defensive and launched into a 1 hour lecture about how he is very safe with guns - he cannot acknowledge that they upset me. But then he keeps bringing it up even after that and gave me a camouflage nightgown as a Xmas present. He also found these nutty cubes of pictures with girls in thongs and hid them around the house to annoy me because I said I didn't like them. They were actually left over from a charity event that he helped with and he and I got into a huge argument because he said all the adults at the party were so flipped out over giving them to the kids and he saw nothing wrong with it because he said don't they realize the stores had them left over because they couldn't sell them and were kind to donate them. I can imagine as moms that none of us would want our kids to receive a gift that has pictures of girls in thongs - that is something that should be in a sports bar. So then he hid them around my house and a few were in places where DS could see them - and some I have not yet found. When I say that irritates me, he doesn't listen and defends why he did something - that he did that to be funny because you should be able to be funny in a good relationship.
Then there is the whole issue of not listening to me on anything. I always patiently explain that I do not like to be on the phone for 2 hours late at night way past my bedtime every night. I try really hard to get off the phone and he finds it hard to do that. He wanted to give me a massage and when he asked in the store which lotion, I picked one out and he said no - makeup remover works best - that is what his physical therapist uses. Okay. I can be experimentive. But then he gave me a massage that was really rough and painful and when I said no he says this is what your muscles needs and gets into a whole discussion about physical therapy and why you have to do that. And then he says he is going through the makeup remover really fast and that I should buy a case and split it with another athlete.
This of course is after I cooked 5 meals for him in a row at my house which I should not have done - but we were trying to see each other before he left for a week. So to me that is really selfish after I spent all the time and money on food and really did not want makeup remover to begin with. I would have liked him to buy some groceries or take me out or acknowledge that I did that - but he did not. And when he came in the door and I had my finger bandaged because I cut my whole finger nail off and was stressed because my pool was green, he launched into a whole conversation about his parent's pool. And when I said that I take great pride in taking care of my pool and just wanted acknowledgement with that he got very defensive on why he was speaking about his parent's pool and could not understand why that conversation went so far south.
I tried repeatedly to say I know he has good intentions but his actions were upsetting and that he needs to slow down and listen. He gets upset that I make him feel insensitive.
I really think he has a serious problem with communicating and knowing what to do socially. I could type so so much more but really have to get some stuff done around here. As I am typing this I realize that even though I dearly wanted it to work and really really tried very hard, there is no way he is capable of a relationship. The harder I try to make him acknowledge my feelings and set boundaries, the worse it gets. I have never been in an experience like this.
I think that he is very good at planning a date - make plans ahead of time, go to dinner, bring flowers, manage dinner conversation. Get the girl excited because you do want a monomagous relationship and discuss that in detail. But it cannot go beyond this obviously because in a real life situation he cannot be empathetic or relate to something you are saying - and he does a lot of things that are extremely socially gauche. And then there is the issue of him wanting to be married now and always bringing that up in every conversation. It is like he cannot get past the first months of dating.
I just remembered one more. I had given up my training for a day and cooked a huge Thanksgiving style dinner for us to exchange our presents and made my house beautiful and gave him a lot of heartfelt things including a letter I wrote. He wanted to know if I could cook his mother's potato recipe. If I would have brought that up he would have gone into a whole story about his mother's cooking. So I let it go.
I am sorry - this I cannot do. I feel I really tried my best. And I did tell a lot of close friends my stories as I was going through this. I forwarded my emails and read them to friends on phones to make sure I was communicating in in a very positive manner that always validated his feelings and said I was sure he didn't mean to come across this way but that is how he is making me feel and it is not what I need out of a relationship. And he would view my emails as mean and attacking and be defensive.
One more thing:
"The irony of what I bought you, the (your favorite online store) gifts you quite literally specifically asked me to get. I was hugely reluctant to do that because every woman that ever requested such a gift broke up with me within one week. Over the years I've spent a lot of money at that stupid place and have never seen any of it worn by whom it was intended for.
Perhaps the secret of Victoria is that if you ever want to have a woman brutally break up with you and think of you as an insensitive piece of _____ buy stuff there!"
That is what he writes to me in response to my breakup letter.
Now, do you think he needs counseling to deal with his insensitivity and communication issues or to stop buying things at VS? (BTW- I did suggest counseling and he considers that one of my "mean" emails.)
My point is that I am not the only one who has felt this way. He has never really had a long term relationship and has a history of stories where he was insensitive. I remember one now that I should have paid more attention to - he complained because she was so busy and always running around her house doing chores and taking out the trash instead of listening to him - to that I would say why didn't you shut your mouth and help her?
OMG. I am so done and over this one. Thank goodness I didn't waste any more time and that I could come to my senses and realize that I am not the only one who can make it work - it takes 2.
It is very sad because we were HS students and we are quality people and we do want the same thing. But I cannot take on a fixer upper like this because it takes too much time and energy away from my life. It made my Xmas a bummer - I wanted to die when my dad asked, how is MA in front of my whole family yesterday - I said he is out of town with family. I was upset he didn't call on Xmas and after this week of such frustration that I broke up with him on Xmas - but I felt it is better to break up with someone than have them break up with you and I am beyond my boiling point.
I guess you can all take heart in knowing that dating is NOT easy and we cannot settle when something is really really wrong. And that I am not immune to this stuff just because I am CL of this board.
I don't really have a much to say other than "I'm sorry".
Wow CL-West, I really admire you for your concientious efforts in communicating what you wanted from him and how you hung in there to try to make it work.
I bet it is hard for you during the holidays to deal with this.
Take care,
Mark
---
May your soul be at rest.
May your heart remain open.
May you realize your own true nature.
May you be healed.
May you be a source of healing for the world. - a zen prayer
I was annoyed that it took up energy and thought away from enjoying my holidays. But I was relieved that I could realize it is not me and not what I need.
I did buy an nice dress to attend a wedding with him this weekend. But guess what? I am wearing it to our alumni Xmas party tonight and am getting out of the house and to look good.
I am not crying - I was not in love with him and I know that this is dating. Dating is a lot like finding a job - you have to look good, know what you want and get out of the house.
I do not want to jump into a relationship - but if I am out meeting people and reconnecting with old friends then I will be happy. My girlfriend from HS is in from out of town - and so we are going to have fun together.
But thank you all for your thoughts - they are helping me a lot and I love hearing them!!
April
Thank you April. I was just thinking that if it was merely a little social awkwardness - like doesn't dress quite right or is a little off key in conversation or a little shy or whatever, I can live with that.
But it seems to me that he does really shocking things to put people off - like sending a PDF file of his gun collection saying my kid can pick one to learn to use. No mother I have talked to so far would ever be open to that. And then he just drones on and on about how he likes guns and he is safe with them and therefore I should bend on my core values to please him. He is not able to acknowledge my preferences or empathize with a situation that merits major help - and even when you ask for help or a change he doesn't do it.
I remember feeling and saying he is like an energizer bunny that marches around doing what it pleases without any regard to his partner and doesn't listen.
I was really trying to keep an open mind to the never been married thing. Because I do know 3 men who married after 40 who were really nice guys - just busy in their careers or shy.
But in our final letters this one made it very evident he has had a lot of chances at dating and has totally blundered them. So maybe that is something to look at - if you have not had any serious and successful relationships and have tried dating a lot of people with the same bad result that is a red flag. Or maybe you need to stress them a bit more in the beginning with a preference or change behavior request? I don't know! Santa didn't bring me a "bad date" detector for Xmas!! LOL!!
Stephanie
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