Opinions and or advice needed pls.......

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2006
Opinions and or advice needed pls.......
38
Tue, 05-29-2007 - 12:38pm

Ok - I have been holding out on this info because I am afraid of the reaction it might get...but then I thought 'this is an online forum...how bad could it be....'

Here's the deal - Kazoo and I had a wonderful evening last week..he made me dinner, lots of great wine, fabulous conversation ...lots of romance. Then he dropped a major bombshell on me... he has a child that he supports but has no relationship with. My jaw hit the ground for a number of reasons. One - he really wants children and jokes about it everytime I see him (remember I have known him for many years so things are moving fast right now for us as a couple). Two - I cannot fathom not having a relationship with my own children. Three - I was adopted (1st abandonment), my father died when I was a teenager (2nd abandonment), my mother remarried and basically removed herself from the lives of my older brother and I when I was 18 (3rd abandonement)- I do not understand how people can completely forget about their children!!!!!!

I have an issue with this. Now - from Kazoo's point of view he was just an unwitting sperm donor who has to pay for the rest of his life for a one night mistake.

We talked quite a bit about this. His previous fiance was very angry about the situation, but not for the same reasons that I would be. She didn't want him to have to pay any money. I could care less about that and more about his moral fiber!!! This child is now 1.5yrs old. A great age to get to know her father even if only on occasional visits. Plus if he entered her life now, she won't have to live the rest of it thinking her father doesn't love her, didn't want her, etc etc etc etc etc. He seems somewhat open to a change of heart...but he is very bitter about having this whole situation forced on him.

Well.....that's it for now....I should mention that he is applying some pressure for me to spend some more time with him right now....hard to do with my kids and his super busy schedule ( I don't plan on introducing my children to anyone unless it turns uber serious)....

HELP!!!!

Rose

Rosecolouredspecs
Avatar for myprecioustwo
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Registered: 04-08-2003
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 10:11am

We tend to seek out our inner fears in our relatioships. I find it very interesting that you would find someone that has done the same thing to someone else that has been done to you: abandone.
You should personally look into that more. I think deep within you that you are WANTING to change him, help him, because you feel you have to change something because nothing was done for you. Does that make sense? You are trying to turn something around in your own life by making Kazoo understand the wrong, to help heal yourself. That may be bold to say, but believe me. I am a living nightmare of this. Abandoned all my life by my father, my mom's boyfriends and I have only sought out men that abandoned their children. Not once but TWICE. Both of my girls have almost no relationships, nor do they pay.

Playing devils advocate:
He is bitter about the whole thing. Understandable. Not all women are innocent. Yes, it takes two to tango, but if this was brand spanking new relationship then I think her intentions was to just get pregnant and have a baby and not so much with whom. He just picked the wrong lady. Now, as far as the condomn breaking... I have my high doubts. That is a typical excuse. Don't be angry, but he just might not want to admit that he didn't wear one, because that would mean you would get even more upset with him and he doesn't want to risk making it worse then it already is. What is done is done. So it doesn't matter how it happened at this point.
My suggestion is that he does get a paternity test and then he takes some time to calm down and reality is, she is going to need him more when she is a little older. Right now it doesn't really matter if he is in her life or not, but he should at least try to make some sort of contact every so often, but he might just need some more time to get over the bitterness. If this woman pulled one on him. My point is ladies and I know I am going to get in big trouble for this, but we as women have a choice. If a woman chooses to get pregnant with someone that she just met or doesn't have a relationship with and decides to keep it, then it should be HER soul responsibility. I know we are talking about the whole responsibility thing, but Kazoo doesn't KNOW her. He was barely with her. AND for goodness sakes, he's paying, isn't he? At least he shows that much responsibility. He just needs some time to cool off and I think that Rose might be able to make changes in that area, because I believe Rose will encourage him more and more to at least keep her around and if Kazoo see's that Rose is understanding and wants the baby around her then he will be more receptive. Make sense?
I actually feel sorry for the guy and I don't consider him a loser. A loser is someone that abandones the child and doesn't pay for child support. AKA my X's. He is paying, he just hasn't yet realized that this child, even if it is made by a woman that he can't stand, is still a part of him. He's just angry.
I do agree that Rose needs to watch this a little, but I do not think it's right to condemn him. He is doing the right thing, even if he isn't "IN" her life.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 10:18am
You do make good points. That must be so hard for you not to have the financial support.
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2006
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 10:52am

Thanks so much for your note - I love your perspective (everyone's actually - there are so many takes on a situation like this one).

I totally agree with your POV that I have ended up dating someone who has done the very same thing that was done to me. You bet. Obviously not intentionally as I have known him as a friend and colleage for 14 years. The child is 18 months old and I have been dating him for just a few weeks now. And I definitely am hoping that I can help sway his view on the whole situation. I know I can't fix it but if he does somehow open his life to include this child (send her birthday card, that sort of thing) I would feel so much better about him.

Did the condom break? Don't know and I agree as well - it is water under the bridge. It doesn't matter how it happened - a baby was conceived. Everyone knows the possible consequences of sex so I do feel he needs to take responsibility for getting her pregnant. However, as you mention in your note, some women out there have less than honourable intentions. We all went to high school with one or two! I do feel he was duped somewhat. This is a guy who loves children, loves people and has a heart of gold in every other aspect of his life and he is very successful to boot. Is he a loser? Not by a long shot. Has he made a bad decision? There is no doubt in my mind...I think so but that is my opinion. Because this involves an innocent child I feel he needs to open his eyes.

"He is paying, he just hasn't yet realized that this child, even if it is made by a woman that he can't stand, is still a part of him." With this statement I concur 110%! That is what I am hoping I can help him to undertstand.

Thanks again for your note - I totally agree with you on every single aspect. I am sorry your children's fathers have not stepped up to the plate but hopefully one day they will see the light.

Rose

Rosecolouredspecs
Avatar for myprecioustwo
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Registered: 04-08-2003
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 11:19am
I do not care if they step up to the plate or not. I had the time to change my mind both times and I decided I wanted to be a mother. It doesn't matter if we both agreed to have a child or not, they changed their minds and I still could have changed mine, but I didn't. I would love if they had a part in my childrens lives. I think it would help my own girls one day not pick a potential jerk. The cycle may end, but I try to make them understand that not all men are that way. M is a perfect example of this. As were some of my other relationships. They were responsible in paying for this. Mine were not, married or not. I don't care about the money, I just care about the love. I chose to have my children because I knew I could fill them with love and that I may not raise them with riches, but riches is the eye of the beholder. They are clothed well, fed well, they have always lived in a beautiful home and they are loved beyond all else. The fathers being responsible would be a nice to have, but it's not a must for me. One day, they will come around. When they are old, lonely and suddenly remember they have blood and flesh walking around. When that happens, I know that my children won't care anymore, because their fathers didn't care about them, when they were needed the most. It's sad, but true. I see it now in my oldest. She sees her father for who he really is. Its heartbreaking, but I hope that with my own healing process, working on breaking my own cycle of losers that one day they will see what a true healthy relationship looks like IN their own family, not just from the outside looking in; as I had to do.
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2006
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 11:31am

Hi Rebecca - I really do think you and I are two birds of a feather!

With my own abandonment issues...nothing is ever going to make them go away and I deal with it in my life each and every day and have for years - I believe that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

I don't think this is a deal breaker for me but it has made me more sensitive to how he reacts to adverse situations. ie if something happens and doesn't go his way...how well does he handle it. etc. My eyes are wide open and I, like you, am a little bit seasoned (39yrs old) so I never take anything at face value - I'm not cynical. I just know that there is always more than what meets the eye.

Aside from the abandonment issues, I have a pretty sweet life and I do appreciate all that I have. I'll keep everyone posted as to how things go with Kazoo. Aside from this issue, he has been totally amazing...just not sure yet how long we can ignore the elephant in the room!

Thanks again Rebecca!

Rose

Rosecolouredspecs
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Registered: 09-01-2006
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 1:41pm

At the end of the day as long as children know that they are loved, nothing else matters. One parent, two parents, or four it really doesn't matter. It sounds like you have a really great relationship with your daughters. You take joy in their happiness.

Fortunately society these days does reflect a variety of "families". So much so that I bet when our children are older they may not feel the need to be a couple.

I remember when I was teenager, I knew I wanted to be a mom but I never necessarily saw a husband in the picture. I sort of mapped out my life like that and I think that has a big role in the reason why it has been such an easy transition for me to becomming a single Mom.

I know for me, my girls are all I truely care about. Everything else is gravy.

Thanks again for sharing!

Rose

Rosecolouredspecs
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Registered: 11-03-2003
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 1:54pm

We tend to seek out our inner fears in our relationships. I find it very interesting that you would find someone that has done the same thing to someone else that has been done to you: abandon.


Interesting topic!

Avatar for myprecioustwo
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Registered: 04-08-2003
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 2:09pm
I think this is the reason M is so different from my "norm". His parents have always been married and he was cheated on. No childhood abandonement issues per say on his plate. His comment on his X wife was, for whatever reason she chose a different route then he did. Does not matter what the reason was, it just was. He's accepted, learned from it, moved on from it and allows himself to be in a relationship without any hang ups. His openess and goodness has made me more positive. He just doesn't have that poor me syndrom, my childhood sucked, etc. etc. His outlook, makes me move on from my past. Wanting to give my children the healthy outlook that he has. Everyday since my breakup from the XF, I have learned so much about myself. People comment on the huge difference they see in me and this was before M came into the picture. I wanted to finally cut the cycle. Get away from all the negative, neglected, sad childhood abandonement issues that my X's have all dealt with. I finally wanted someone that was in a healthy part and I think the HARDEST part for me was to steer that route. To actually start talking to M. Knowing he has no issues. His family is very intact and they were wonderful and supportive up to this day. I actually found myself thinking, he won't understand me. But you know? I don't need to be understood in that way. I want to move and get away from feeling I had been deserted. Trying to fix other people and fill a void that I've desperately wanted to close. M is doing that because he is healthy. Trying to carry someone on my back again and play Florence Nightgale is not where I need to be for myself and definitely not my children. My void is being filled by learning about the things I "truly need", verses the things I "want".
Avatar for myprecioustwo
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Registered: 04-08-2003
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 2:11pm

**I remember when I was teenager, I knew I wanted to be a mom but I never necessarily saw a husband in the picture. I sort of mapped out my life like that and I think that has a big role in the reason why it has been such an easy transition for me to becomming a single Mom.**

{I so agree with that statement. That is why it was very easy for me to make a decision choosing my children over my men. Always was, always will be. I rather be alone forever without a man, then alone without any children.}

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2006
Thu, 05-31-2007 - 2:14pm

Liz - it truely sounds to me like you are an amazing mother. Your daughter is so lucky to have such a strong and smart mom!

Your explanations to her sound absolutely perfect to me and I am so glad to hear that she doesn't feel any different from her friends. I was worried for my own daughters (5
& 3) when we separated that they would feel different but so far so good!

Ok - what would you say to your daughters's father about his decision? Do you talk to him at all? Is there such a thing as a healthy relationship for them under the circumstances? I just don't want to see this guy make a decision now that he might (and most likely will) regret later in life when it is just too late to change....

Rosecolouredspecs