please help with some rationality
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| Fri, 12-17-2004 - 10:09am |
OK, please help me look at this with a clear perspective. I'm so close to the situation and I'm feeling torn up. There was a chance to see Trav last night, it would have meant driving 4 hours round trip, I was tired (too tired to be driving all night really), had plans with the kids (and there is only one driver in our house right now) and it was very short notice. He SAID he would understand if I didn't come because it was such short notice, but now I don't think he meant it.
I sent him this email...
I looked for you on IM and left you some messages. I'm not going to come up there tonight. I'm exhausted, would have a very hard time staying awake on the highway and things aren't going well with Liz in particular. She did not want her plans to get dumped for me to come see you. I think she's pretty disenchanted at not having met you. Not that she makes the decisions, but I love her and we're family. You and I are a long ways from being family and I know you understand that family is important. I'm sorry and I know you're disappointed. I wish it could have worked out.
Maybe next time will work out better. I guess you won't have time off for the holidays, but maybe you'll be able to come through some.
__________________________________________________
And he replied:
Yes, I understand, family is important and like you say we're far from being a family. However, I do have family, and they have been on me to come home for the holidays, I was going to try to get back here, but after reading and thinking about what you've said, I'm going home for the holidays. I think it will do me good.
So you have a great holiday(s).
******
I feel like I'm just being manipulated. He had already said he would NOT be back for the holidays...I feel like he said that just to make me feel bad. I didn't see this man for 6 months at a stretch from Jan to July, and I didn't ditch him. I'm tired of this and I think it's the last straw. Am I overreacting?

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I don't know the history, but I don't think what he said was so bad. You said you had to put family first right now, and he said he agreed and is doing the same. Communicating in email is hard because there is no back and forth clarification of what was said, and you don't have facial expressions or tone to clue you in on what they mean by what they said. If he was saying it to make you feel bad maybe he took what your email said in the wrong way, but I don't think what he said was really that different from what you said.
I think it's best not to communicate any more of this through email and just wait until you can actually talk. Otherwise you risk building misunderstanding on top of misunderstanding until you are no longer seeing each other at all. When you do talk, you might want to tell him you really would have come to see him if the drive had been more reasonable and you hadn't been so tired, and Liz had felt differently about it (is Liz your daughter?). Just tell him there were so many factors going on that night (not simply that he is NOT family), but that you do miss him and you wished you could have seen him. Then drop it. Or maybe even drop it all together. When you talk again, just try to figure out when you can see each other again and then talk face to face.
Gosh Candi, it's really hard to tell from this quick bit of communication if you're overreacting OR if he's manipulating. OR, if it's neither.
Here's what it sounds like to me on first read:
You made a VERY wise decision to not dump your dd for a last second chance with T (which I commend you for! That's hard to do. I am certain Liz appreciated your sacrifice) and you were clear with him why you couldn't come. You agreed it was last second and you took him at his word that he would understand. All good.
HE agreed with you. Understood (it sound like) and what's more, your dedication to your family reminded him of his own family that has been asking to see him. I think you were an excellent example to him and he expressed that to you. I doubt he intended to manipulate. Sounds like he was letting you know he was considering heading your way for the holidays (even though he hadn't originally said so) but that you reminded him of what was more important.
Like I said, that's how it looks from this short conversation. I know none of us knows his usual MO. If he talked that way often (the part that made you feel manipulated. The part where he said "well, I was considering coming back here..." after you thought he wasn't. Well, that would bother me too, on a regular basis)
hmmm...ok...
I feel like I'm being penalized for not rushing to him.
There are a few things he's said like, when I said I needed more time with him (this after seeing him once in 6 months) he said "you need someone underfoot and at your call"...that really burned me. I do not need that OR want it, and what I was expressing was wanting to maybe have a more normal relationship. someone who is here. And I guess that's how he sees that kind of couple.
>>>There are a few things he's said like, when I said I needed more time with him (this after seeing him once in 6 months) he said "you need someone underfoot and at your call"...that really burned me. I do not need that OR want it, and what I was expressing was wanting to maybe have a more normal relationship. someone who is here. And I guess that's how he sees that kind of couple.<<<
So are you mad about this latest email, or are you still mad about the underfoot comment? I don't think you are being penalized for not rushing to him, I think at worst he may have misinterpreted your email.
Here is your email to him: "I looked for you on IM and left you some messages. I'm not going to come up there tonight. I'm exhausted, would have a very hard time staying awake on the highway and things aren't going well with Liz in particular. She did not want her plans to get dumped for me to come see you. I think she's pretty disenchanted at not having met you. Not that she makes the decisions, but I love her and we're family. You and I are a long ways from being family and I know you understand that family is important. I'm sorry and I know you're disappointed. I wish it could have worked out."
The first part is fine, you are explaining several good reasons why you can't go to see him. Then you say she's disenchanted at not having met him. Again, I don't know the history but it sounds like you are saying HE is part of the problem you are having with her. Then you go on to say family is important and he's not family, thus it would be reasonable for him to think you are saying he isn't important to you. Then you say you know he's disappointed, which is probably true, but you are making assumptions about his feelings and in general, it is not a good idea to tell someone you know how they feel in an email. The last sentence probably can't be misinterpreted, but he might be thinking that you are happy with the way it worked out and wouldn't change a thing.
As far as his email, you could be taking it the way he meant, or you could be reading more into it than is there - but before you decide if you are overreacting you should really talk to him first. Sorry for a second post on this, I was just thinking more about it and had more to add.
I definitely think this is manipulative behavior. It's like he wants you available when it's convenient for him. Call him on it.
Hugs
Tara
Maybe I am just ready to be done with it. He has made it abundantly clear in the past that I can't expect more from him than what I get now.
Talking to him would be great, but I don't see communication between us expanding.He answers my page long emails with a few icons, if he answers them. There is a long, complicated history and I haven't discussed much of it here, for good reasons. He's away a lot for his job and can't tell me much about it.
The "underfoot" comment would have bummed me out too Candi. It shows a very CLEAR ignorance on his part of who you are, even after all of your communication with him. He's calling it like he WANTS to see it, on that issue.
If it's too many things, then I can understand this being the straw that breaks the back. I'd take a close look at pro's and con's and then probably I'd move on, if I were in your shoes. The relationship doesn't seem to be filling your needs as it stands.
Well, no. It's not even meeting the "basic" needs right now, since I rarely ever see him.
I know I want someone who is actually involved in my life on a day to day basis. I love trav, but I don't think that's enough.
It's hard to call it quits though. And it hurts. Back to square one...holiday season...it sucks. So many people who were on here when I came on have gotten married or have a permanent SO...I think I need a remedial relationships course or something. :)
Hi Candi,
I am just logging in now and reading your post. If you want the real thing - someone here now and in your life on a daily basis that is GREAT! Don't settle.
I see his note as him having a little time and thinking of you - and if it works for you great and if it doesn't great. I think he might have been a little defensive with his family comment and maybe a little bummed/rejected that you didn't want to see him.
BUT you made the absolute BEST decision when you said no for the reasons you stated. Your family comes first and especially with how he has disappointed you in the past. You are not going to drop everything to go and see him and never mind when you are tired and would have to drive so far.
I truly understand your pain about being alone for the holidays. I am in those shoes now. I also sympathize with you for being disappointed with his crumbs and how you didn't get enough in the past. You just set an important boundary for him and for yourself. It is like a little flu shot - it stings right now but will get you healthy and to your goal in the end.
You know what you want and you are a very brilliant, dynamic, interesting woman. Just a little more time and you will find it.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Trav comes up with what you want. Men have a funny way of realizing what they have and appreciating us when we are NOT arround. But I wouldn't hope for this.
HUGS to you and keep us posted.
I doubt that this will bring him around to my point of view. He's busy and he's pretty much married to his career. I need to concentrate on my own goals and maybe meet someone in the process, or not...I'll be fine. I want more than what he could give me anyway, it's time to move on.
I've just gotten attached to him and it will take a little while to get past that, but I will. I'll get busy flirting and I'll be ok.
I'm not alone, really. Two of my kids will be around, and friends. I'll fill up my dance card and keep moving on.
He may regret his decision though, if he has any sense. I'm very good for him. And I'm only going to get better, black belt, bilingual and MA holder.
Thanks for the compliments and encouragement.
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