Reality Check - Big Brother disconnect

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Registered: 03-27-2003
Reality Check - Big Brother disconnect
12
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 12:29am

I would like your feedback on how I communicated to my older brother and his responses. I was taken by surprise by his feeling of anger. Context: we don't really talk to each other (as noted in my email to him).

The start of this email chain was during Christmas 2007 was that he gave me the book "Water for Elephants" with the note saying, "If you want to know me then read this book" after I expressed my frustration to him how I really did not know him (he's 57 and I'll be 55 this year and I live in Oregon and he lives in Massachusetts and not really have seen each other except for about 5 times in the past couple of decades).

I feel in pain and raw from all of this (and other separate non-related communications with a woman).

Mark
---

Sunday, April 6, 2008

Hi Mark,

I appreciate the trust you have in me. And I'm glad you see that we are so different in our styles of communicating and looking at the world. I hope that my emails to you have helped you understand who I am.

We are all human with human faults. It helps to recognize our own faults so we can compensate for them. I've had to settle my soul because of my anger and frustration from reading your email.
Claude has told me that it's OK to have impulses but not OK to act on them inappropriately. I feel that it is difficult to communicate well through email; that face-to-face communication over time is the best way. It is so easy to misunderstand someone else in an email. I believe the way to truly understand someone else is not through words alone but has to include body language and other nuances and to do this over multiple interactions. Given that, rightly or wrongly, I feel anger and defensiveness in your email at me, unjustly since I do give equal or more consideration to your emails than most others.

Love,

Big Brother of 2 yrs
=====
March 26, 2008

Big Brother of 2 yrs,
When I do not get a response from someone in over a month then it is hard for me to assume that I will get a response. Do you not answer or wait a month with Anne when you do not know how to phrase a response? Do you behave the same way with Marissa? With your work and business contacts? I ask for the same consideration.

I would appreciate at least "I got your email but would like some time to formulate a response and will get back to you when I can. Please be patient." Otherwise I feel my communications go into a Black Hole. I do not have a 250 year time frame. When I do not receive anything back after making the time and effort to share, to ask, to communicate with you then I feel that I am wasting my time.

I recognize we are different and we each have our own lives, styles of communicating and ways of looking at the world. Actually that is why I desire to know you better for I really don?t have much of a clue on how you are.

We are in the back end part of our lives where we are feeling our age. This period of time has been the anniversary of both Mom and Dad's deaths. I believe who our family is makes me who I am as a person and how important it is to me to have the family we have. I value each of us.

I tell people that even though you and Chester (our youngest brother) and I don?t really talk or share with each other, I know I can count on either of you if I ever need anything and that each of us have high integrity. That is the legacy of our parents, especially Dad.
I hate to have either of us at our death beds and to regret not making the effort of being more connected.

love,
Mark
=====
From: Big Brother of 2 yrs
Subject: Re: Water for Elephants
March 25, 2008

Hi Mark,
Sorry you gave up on me after a month. Sometimes it is very difficult to formulate a
response in coherent words that addresses your inquiry. It took a long time to think about how to respond and then more time to think about how to phrase it. Philosophical answers almost never can be conveyed in one shot, back and forth is generally required. Add in the busy times, sick times, emergencies, and other distractions and some time goes by.

I also generally have a long time frame and lots of patience. These are aspects about me that you should be aware. (Note that the founder of devised a 250-year business plan, broken up as 25 10-year business plans. Sometimes I think in such longtime frames that a few weeks or months seem insignificant. I believe that this long range thinking is an Asian thing, maybe Buddhist thing.)

?
Love,
Big Brother of 2 yrs.
=====
March 25, 2008

Thanks for responding Big Brother of 2 yrs. I gave up on you after a month of not hearing back.

I hope you are doing well.

Love,
Mark
===
March 22, 2008
From: Big Brother of 2 yrs
Subject: Re: Water for Elephants

Hi Mark,
Sorry about this belated response. It is hard to come up with words for something as ineffable
as your own being. So rather than doing that, I'm going to just convey a few small aspects.
I have always been a philosophical thinker and have always looked at the principles involved
rather than specifics. So I didn't relate to anyone specifically in the book, nor the specific fact that
the protagonists were animal lovers. Part of the reason I really liked the book was that it was very
well written and transported me back to the Depression years so I was able to put all the activities, actions, and characters into that perspective.

Jake was a good man by his actions, not just his words. He made mistakes and did things wrong
like any human, so he wasn't portrayed as some perfect super-hero. He did impulsive things but they had a goodness at their source even though they may not have turned out so well. He and Marlena took responsibility for the elephant and horses even though they had no money, no jobs, and no way to take care of the themselves, let alone the animals. That act was both very foolish and very much acting on principles. Without explicitly knowing it, Jake strove to do the right thing, not the most financially advantageous, not the most expeditious, and not the most practical. He didn't pound his chest and tell people to look how good he is, he just did it.

I don't know if I can describe how and why I related to this book so well beyond the above writing.
These kinds of things are really hard to put into words.
Love,
Big Brother of 2 yrs.
====
January 2, 2008

Hi ,

I wanted to let you know that I finished your gift. I wonder what you have identified with in that book? Was it loving the animals or wanting to be a vet? Was it feeling that you are in the last stages of your life in the nursing home? Was it the fantasy of working at a circus? Was it the romance between the unhappily married woman and the protagonist? Was it being the good friend of the broken down sick man and the midget?

I cannot even imagine how you are like anything that I have read in the book. The closest part was that you being an animal lover.

I would love for you to elaborate on why you think that book reveals who you are.

Love, Mark

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-17-2008
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 1:37am

Hi Mark,


I am sure you were taken back by his anger, but what I see is that your e-mail left the feeling that you were angry.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 7:28am

I think maybe he is not a big email person? And you got upset that he took too long to email and your criticism made him defensive and then the whole thing went downhill. In my opinion, if you are not that close you should have said you enjoyed the book and would like to speak with him so you can understand why he liked it. Your quiz, in my opinion, was a little strong - even though you took the book very seriously and were really trying to figure him out I can see where it was an inquisition from his standpoint.

I think also, that there is more history here than we can know just from these letters. Do you two have a misunderstanding from your past?

Perhaps you two can have simple chats on the phone just to stay connected and not fight over the things that upset you - it is one of those scenarios where it is a relative and for the sake of getting along. I have to do this with many of mine.

For example, my mother is very overbearing to me. She is an artist and sees the world differently. She is very critical and thinks the world revolves around her - she does not respect that others can be different. She does not think I should have gotten a divorce. She does not think I should do triathlons. She thinks I should be a famous author instead of enjoying my business and not chasing a lofty goal that makes no money. I could go on and on. We could have World War III if I wished. But I take the high road. I call her at least once a week and chat about things that we find mutually enjoyable like my son. When she chooses a topic that is not good I change the subject or get off the phone. I do not seek her validation but I do enjoy her and focus on the positive. I choose to get along with her.

I am not saying I am a better communicator than you - because I think you have taught me a lot with positive communication. I guess what I am saying is that you might find my story helpful in getting along with a difficult relative. It took me a long time to learn this. And a helpful friend once told me how she gets along with her dad who can be very difficult. So, I heeded her advice and have a much better relationship with mine.

Sorry to hear, though, that you are upset with him. And that dating is not going the way you want.

EDITED to add: not everyone's dating is really going the way they want - so don't feel alone ;-) WE WANT SCOOP!!




Edited 4/7/2008 8:22 am ET by cl-west1745
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2006
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 10:58am
So sorry to hear you are going through this conflict with your brother and feeling raw over it. I can relate. When these issues occur with family members it makes it all the more painful. You seem to have a bond and love for your family that you recognize in part from the legacy your parents left each of you. I feel the same way and so does SYB and so often when we are disappointed with a lack of contact or consideration from our sibling(s) we feel our hearts ache at what seems to be a legacy in danger of being lost. My brother and I went through 3-4 years of very little contact after my Mom died because of what I think now was just overwhelming fear and pain for being on earth alone without her and no skills really to feel a bond as siblings without her guidance and emotional "glue" for lack of a better word. SYB struggles with this now. We had to re-carve paths to one another and things in common and dig deep to let go of past bitterness ( things that happened during Mom's illness) and just agree to move on as people who loved each other in the NOW. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done and it surely looks like you are trying. I know that if my brother had sent me a book telling me to read it if I wished to know him during the time we were having trouble communication it would have been very difficult for me do so because of the other issues we had at the time and his general lack of communication so I really want to commend you for putting other obvious issues with him aside and reading it exactly as he wanted you to. He requested this of you as his way of showing you who he was and in that is a desire from him to be better understood. You seem to value your siblings and your knowledge of them and I agree wholeheartedly that who they are does have a lot to do with who you are so I understand your urge to be let in more to who they are - I would feel the same way.
My take on your emails is that your brother has intermittent urges to get closer to you and then is fearful and backs away from it. He made a fairly bold move in sending you the book and then was not there for the followthrough. He may have good intentions at the start of things but you seem to have what it takes to put time aside and move through the emotions and come out on the other side. I dont think it is just a difference in time tables or how you deal with patience or pondering the right words. I think it is about fear and his fear may have stood in the way in the past as well. It also might not seem as important to him to get to know you as vice versa for whatever reason. Maybe he doesnt see knowing you or you knowing him as a step toward knowing himself or honoring the legacy your parents left. It seems you do and I would but maybe he doesnt? Of if he does, it is fleeting and has no follow through - kind of loses steam unfortunately right when he has your attention and you think you might be getting somewhere.
In the end, you seem to want this understanding of each other more than he does. This imbalance will ultimately lead to frustration on your part every time IMO. He reaches out suddenly, you jump for it and he gets distracted and forgets all about it. I think you have every reason to be angry and hurt over this and yet you also have the power to not let it happen again. It might be over time that he develops more of a true interest ( one which lasts more than one fervent day of pondering) in getting closer to you. When that happens, I believe you will feel it stronger than your own desires and have a choice to respond or not. Until then, I would chalk this up to an imbalance between you and move on as painful as that might seem. You have done nothing wrong here and IMO it is perfectly ok for him to read some anger and upset in your email. He basically dangled something in front of you that he knows you would love to have and then bailed.
I may have this completely wrong but only you know the full history between you and how fear has played a part in his life or not. Even people who are fearful have good impulses on how things might help them in their own journey - his revealing a part of himself to you was probably a good impulse but just one he couldnt complete...
Lilypie - Personal picture
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Registered: 06-04-2004
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 11:13am

Don't you just love family dynamics?!?!?


I think the distance surely doesn't help. Do you ever talk on the phone at all? Or is all the communication usually done by email? I know the phone isn't anything like face-to-face either- but it might be better than email.


I do think it's a bit odd that your brother wants you to understand him through reading a book... but then not responding quicker to you in discussing it. Letting 2-3 months pass without a response... I would've "given up" on the idea too- but I think your email to him might've come across wrong. You might've meant that you gave up on waiting for a response and the discussion about the book... but he might've read it as you giving up on HIM or giving him the time of day. You could see how he might take offense/get upset about that, right?


I really do think the 2 of you have more in common than these emails show, and you have more of the same intentions too- but for some reason, the communication just keeps missing the mark. I don't feel like it's a hopeless situation between you two... just a bit misguided for the moment.


My brothers and I have had years of not speaking in the past- not because of anger or anything, just distance and our life paths going in different directions. But with the passinng of our Mom... it was a sort of "wake up call" for us too (except for my youngest brother, who continues to live in his own fog)- and we keep in touch more. Both by email and by phone (if time allows) and when we are in the same city... we meet up in person. We realize that Mom was that "glue" of our family too (like citylife mentioned) and that we needed to step up and put some energy into it, or else it would be too easy to let things slip away. And we know we aren't getting any younger... and neither is Dad- who is kind of like the next step in the "glue" that remains. We know that eventually we'll lose him too- and the rest of us will have to learn to "play nice" and get along- and become our own glue... or we'd just lose our family connections just from apathy and inactivity... and how sad is THAT?


Anyway- I'd just keep trying, Mark. Try phone calls if you think the message is getting lost in email. I really do think you guys are probably closer in thought and wants than it seems in these series of emails.


And thanks for trusting us enough to come to us with this one.


~shrimpy

"A man who wants something will find a way; a man who doesn't will find an excuse." ~Stephen Dolley Jr.

~<

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2006
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 11:28am
My brothers and I have had years of not speaking in the past- not because of anger or anything, just distance and our life paths going in different directions. But with the passinng of our Mom... it was a sort of "wake up call" for us too (except for my youngest brother, who continues to live in his own fog)- and we keep in touch more. Both by email and by phone (if time allows) and when we are in the same city... we meet up in person. We realize that Mom was that "glue" of our family too (like citylife mentioned) and that we needed to step up and put some energy into it, or else it would be too easy to let things slip away. And we know we aren't getting any younger... and neither is Dad- who is kind of like the next step in the "glue" that remains. We know that eventually we'll lose him too- and the rest of us will have to learn to "play nice" and get along- and become our own glue... or we'd just lose our family connections just from apathy and inactivity... and how sad is THAT?
I so so so relate to this both for myself and for SYB who struggles with this currently!! Well said!
Lilypie - Personal picture
Avatar for mhash
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Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 12:08pm

This email reinforces who he is which I already knew.

Avatar for mhash
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Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 12:14pm

I agree on your view that I want to have an understanding of him more than he does of me.

Avatar for mhash
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Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 12:20pm

I thought it odd too that he would send me a book saying this is how to understand him but had to think about it for 3 months to explain why it explained him (WTF?).


I am not motivated to put any more effort into this since this has been a lifetime of history of non-communication.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2006
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 12:23pm
You're welcome. I wished I could have helped more. I am these days particularly sensitive to how much family members can hurt us.
I know you are probably right in what your gut tells you but to me disinterest is a very common cover for fear. Also, it is more likely for you to feel hurt by him if it is disinterest but fear would or might inspire a whole other set of emotional reactions. It might be difficult to pinpoint is reasons of course and some people cant even identify what their fears are. How are the other siblings in how they relate to one another? Just my thoughts....
BIg hugs over there...
Lilypie - Personal picture
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Registered: 09-11-2007
Mon, 04-07-2008 - 2:27pm

Mark,


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