Should I move in? Update
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Should I move in? Update
| Wed, 10-17-2007 - 4:14am |
Hi ladies,
Thanks for all the excellent advice!
Soo, we had a talk over the weekend, and I *think* we have figured out a plan.

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I think that sounds PERFECT!
As for your dd, she is going to be fine. Its the PERFECT transition. Good luck!
Rebecca, Mom to Averey, 2/8/00, Kibo, Sana & Zuri too!
Hi, I think this is a perfect arrangement something that I voted for in your early post. Glad that it worked.
As for your DD may be you can make her feel this visits are special occasions .. and she she feel good enough that she should be wanting to do these. I foget how old she is. But if she is older than 6 or 7 you could talk to her about it and how much fun it will be to have a "vaccation " or "holiday" place.
I think
I like that you are going to save your money now for something you would buy later when you are married. I don't like that you would pitch in for the bills but that is sort of a nit.
BUT what I really don't like is that your DD is the test rabbit. He thinks he is going to have panic attacks because he is used to living alone? I think this is way too confusing for her and has the potential to disappoint her if he doesn't want to commit.
I mean, he has the best of you right now. From what I have seen with people living together is that it creates hassles that don't necessarily have good solutions because everyone is more worried about themselves rather than the good of the whole and making it work. And then the guy gets confused and doesn't want to commit and no marriage proposal comes of it. I think you are setting yourself up for a real disappointment if this comes. I just don't like his dipping the toe in the water approach for this. And I don't like that your DD would be in the middle - she will feel rejected if it doesn't work and she will lose a room and perhaps some things she was looking forward to. But that is just me and my opinion.
I just don't think his current offer is better than what you have now - to stay put in your parents loving home and save for your future. He wants to "test" it and have you help him pay the bills.
I really think you have to negotiate your side and make him respect you. I believe that men take the path of least resistance unless we encourage them to do different.
But this is jusut me. I am sure others will pipe in and I encourage them even if the disagree - you have to pick and choose what you want to hear and what is best for you. Good luck with whatever you decide.
I don't like the idea of a slow move in, to be honest. I think it puts too much pressure on you all to make things work out, and I feel that everyone would be more relaxed if you just saw staying over a couple of nights a week as just that, rather than a type of trial period.
I personally feel that, before moving in with someone, you have to be as sure as possible that it will actually work out. Nothing is guaranteed, but if there are any doubts, then perhaps you aren't ready to make this great leap yet. When my SO moved in with us, it was also a big change for him to give up what I always termed as his student lifestyle (although he wasn't a student, but was living in shared accommodation), and suddenly find himself as a role model to two young children, with less opportunities for doing what he wanted, when he wanted. But he knew he wanted to do it, managed to convince me of his willingness, and we both felt it was just right. Like with all relationships, there have been hurdles along the way, but you have to be pretty sure you want to stick at it. Maybe the time isn't quite right for you just yet.
Think of this analogy - if you go into a clothes shop, try a few things on, don't really love the way you look in any of them, but buy an item anyway, you won't wear it that much, if at all. If, however, you put something on and love it, you will wear and wear it. This is how I feel about big decisions - if it feels just right, then go for it, but if there are doubts, give it some more time until it does feel perfect.
I just worry that if your SO's panic moments end up making him decide that he is not ready for all this just yet, that your DD will be upset, after having got used to staying over at his place on a regular basis. But, again, there are no guarantees in life, and it's a risk we take.
All the best, and let us know how it works out for you all.
Clem xx
Clemmy, your monkey always sounds so wonderful when you write about him. Thanks for sharing - it gives us all hope. I think it is impressive that he gave up the student kind of lifestyle to what he knew he had to do to make you guys happy and be a mentor for 2 kids.
I do agree with you on the trying out thing. I had found an article I really liked but was afraid to post it in fear that I would offend the ones here who are living together because I like all of you so much. But it could sort of back up what you are saying and is food for thought.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5025_qa.html
It explains the concept of "trying out" versus "committing to making it work and keeping each other happy"
I'll copy in the text because sometimes links get broken, or people (for whatever reason) can't access them:
Living Together Before Marriage
Letter #1
Dear Dr. Harley,
In your August 5, 1996 Q&A column on Honesty and Openness (part 2) you wrote: "One other suggestion: Don't live with each other before you marry. Eight-five percent of those who do end up divorced. Some day I'll write a Q&A column explaining why."
I've been reading the information on your web site and just recently brought home a copy of the emotional needs questionnaire to go over with my (live-in) boyfriend. We have set aside time each week to discuss one question on it at a time. We have just started this so we haven't gotten very far yet. We're looking at this as preventative maintenance so we do not run into problems in the future. We have been together for 2 years but don't feel ready to get married yet. I think these exercises may help us figure out why that is.
So far, just about everything I've seen makes a lot of sense, but now you've got me wondering why you feel people should not live together before being married. Is it 'some day' yet?
E.N.
Dear E.N.,
The number of unmarried couples living together has increased dramatically over the past few decades, and I expect that it will continue to increase. The rationale is simple: "By living together before marriage, we'll know how compatible we are." Presumably, if a couple can get along living in the same apartment before marriage, they will be able to get along with each other after marriage.
It's a tempting argument. After all, a date tends to be artificial. Each person is "up" for the occasion, and they make an effort to have a good time together. But marriage is quite different from dating. In marriage, couples are together when they're "down," too. Wouldn't it make sense for a couple to live together for a while, just to see how they react to each other's "down" times? If they discover that they can't adjust when they live together, they don't have to go through the hassle of a divorce. Besides, isn't it easier to adjust when you don't feel trapped by marriage?
The problem with those arguments is that marriage changes everything. If couples that live together think that after marriage everything will be the same, they don't understand what marriage does to a couple, both positively and negatively.
In my experience and in reports I've read, the chances of a divorce after living together are huge, much higher than for couples who have not lived together prior to marriage. If living together were a test of marital compatibility, the statistics should show opposite results -- couples living together should have stronger marriages. But they don't. They have weaker marriages.
To understand why this is the case, I suggest that you consider why couples who live together don't marry. Ask yourself that very question. Why did you choose to live with your boyfriend instead of marrying him?
The answer is that you were not ready to make that commitment to him yet. First, you wanted to see if you still loved him after you cooked meals together, cleaned the apartment together and slept together. In other words, you wanted to see what married life would be like without the commitment of marriage.
But what you don't seem to realize is that you will never know what married life is like unless you're married. The commitment of marriage adds a dimension to your relationship that puts everything on its ear. Right now, you are testing each other to see if you are compatible. If either of you slips up, the test is over, and you are out the door. Marriage doesn't work that way. Slip-ups don't end the marriage, they just end the love you have for each other.
What, exactly, is the commitment of marriage? It is an agreement that you will take care of each other for life, regardless of life's ups and downs. You will stick it out together through thick and thin. But the commitment of living together isn't like that at all. It is simply a month-to-month rental agreement. As long as you behave yourself and keep me happy, I'll stick around.
Habits are hard to break, and couples that live together before marriage get into the habit of following their month-to-month rental agreement. In fact, they often decide to marry, not because they are willing to make a lifetime commitment to each other, but because the arrangement has worked out so well that they can't imagine breaking their lease, so to speak. They say the words of the marital agreement, but they still have the terms of their rental agreement in mind.
Couples who have not lived together before marriage, on the other hand, have not lived under the terms of the month-to-month rental agreement. They begin their relationship assuming that they are in this thing for life, and all their habits usually reflect that commitment.
The Policy of Joint Agreement, for example, doesn't make much sense for a couple living together prior to marriage. "Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your friend," it is thought, would not be a fair test of your compatibility. A better test would be for each of you to do whatever you please, and then see if you still get along.
But a newly married couple makes a deliberate effort to accommodate each other, because they know their relationship will be for life. They want to build compatibility, not test it. So the Policy of Joint Agreement makes all the sense in the world to a couple who has set out to live their lives together.
It's true, that a couple who lives together can follow the Policy of Joint Agreement from the day they move in. They can commit themselves to each other's happiness as if they were married. They can overcome Love Busters that could destroy their love for each other. But couples who live together tend not to do those things because their month-to-month rental agreement does not demand it. They lack motivation to put each other first in their lives because they are testing the relationship. They're not sure they want each other for life, and so they are usually not willing to make the all-out commitment that the Policy of Joint Agreement demands.
When a couple has lived together without the Policy of Joint Agreement, it's very difficult to apply it once they are married. What they usually do is stay the course. They figure that their month-to-month agreement got them that far, so why change it.
Marriage has a very positive effect on a relationship for those who have not lived together, because they tend to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement without having ever heard of it. They know that they will be together for life, so they make an effort to create a compatible lifestyle from day one.
But marriage has a very negative effect on those who have been in the habit of following the month-to-month agreement. The commitment of marriage is seen as the "other guy's" commitment. Those who have lived together prior to marriage feel that their own behavior has passed the test, and any further accommodation should be unnecessary. Worse yet, they think they don't need to be on their best behavior because their spouse can't leave now that they're married.
Habits are hard to break, and those who have lived together develop habits that work only when they're not married. Marriage ruins it all.
Now, I'm not suggesting that you and your boyfriend should avoid marriage, but I'm warning you that unless you break out of the habits that come from a month-to-month rental agreement, your marriage will be a disaster.
Begin by following my Policy of Joint Agreement. It's not impossible to follow when you care for each other's feelings and put them first in your life. You will create a lifestyle that fits you both perfectly, and you'll wonder why you didn't marry each other to begin with.
Living together may prove compatibility for a moment in time, but it provides no evidence for your happiness together over a lifetime. The only way you can have that happiness and compatibility is if you agree to take each other's feelings into account every time you make a decision. And that's what people who marry after not having lived together are highly motivated to do.
Statically, couples who live together before marriage have a much smaller chance of actually getting married, and once they are married, of staying married.
I'm not fond of the 'provisional' move in because everyone knows if they blow it, they're out.
Thanks for your compliment about Monkey, Judy. I know how lucky I am. There is a Monkey out there for everyone, I am convinced!!!
Clem xx
Okay, so I have no officially emailed the link to the Policy of Joint Agreement to just about everyone close to me who I thought might benefit from it. lol
I totally agree with it, because I can see from my own failed marriage, that my ex was definitely the Taker and I was definitely the Giver. And we were BOTH at fault with those enough that we harmed the marriage. There was no balance. I saw him as selfish and demanding because he never got enough of what he wanted and wanted things his way. He saw me as spineless and weak because I was always so ready to give in and please, so okay with others' choices and needs. There was no way it would've worked, the way it was functioning!
I emailed the link to Hiker, too... for discussion purposes. If we should get married to each other one day, I want us both to be aware of this, and to be aware of how dangerous it is to NOT think of the partnership this way. I won't enter another marriage unless I can feel comfortable knowing that the man GETS this message. It might've taken me into my 40's to learn this, but I know that I now GET this. I now know that being "too nice" is just as harmful as being too demanding. There HAS to be that balance.
Now I've even learned that I won't be in a long-term dating relationship if this policy isn't in place as well. It's not just for marriage. It should be this way somewhat, for all relationships- such as between friends. You can't have a strong friendship if it seems to be too one-sided in who puts in the energy.
As for the whole moving-in-unmarried vs. moving-in-after-marriage issue... I can't say I believe the stats as the end-all of how things are- because I don't think living together before marriage is
~shrimpy
"A man who wants something will find a way; a man who doesn't will find an excuse." ~Stephen Dolley Jr.
~<
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