Silence or hearing the bad? Whats 4U?
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Silence or hearing the bad? Whats 4U?
| Sat, 01-29-2005 - 4:51am |
Ok, we all know what chaos I had in my life again, because Ian gave me the total silent treatment. No dear C letter, no sentence saying I'm not interested, no nothing. I've had the truth spilled out on me, sometimes so honestly brutal that the slap in the face almost killed me, but now for the first time, I've had silence. And I feel that is almost worst.
What about you? What would you rather have and maybe an experience to share where you had wished vice versa?
Silence or Honesty?

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Hi All~ First of all to answer the question....I'm going to go with honesty in this case. I feel that it allows for an easier closure to the relationship. You aren't left with the wondering of why or what happened. It is alot easlier to just know what happened and why they did what they did. When you just all of a sudden cut ties and don't talk or communicate, it leaves too many things unresolved and leaves it open to think about too much.
I can relate alot to the relationship you have with your daughter's father. I too have known my son's father for many years and we have been through alot of good and bad times together, everything from family deaths, car accident, we attended high school graduation together, the birth of our son, and everything in between the past 10 yrs or so. At one point I considered him to be my best friend, knowing him like no other human in the world. I felt I could tell him anything. As our responsibility grew(the birth of our son, working 2 jobs to support the household, having a house/mortgage, etc.) we grew apart. He thought alot of himself and wanted to do things that we couldn't afford to do. I guess in my mind his priorities where not in the right order. We split up almost 5 yrs ago. and until recently I could not imagine caring about someone as I did him. He still says to this day he loves me, and that I'm a wonderful mother, and he doesn't know how I can do it all between raising our son and all the responsibilities of the household myself. Even though I do still love him and probably always will, I know in my heart that we would never work out and that I'm not IN LOVE with him anymore. My son does adore him ( when he's around anyway) and that's fine, but I hope as he grows up, he will realize that he's not a great father and that a true father should be so much more to his son.
I just had to share some information as well...I truely enjoyed hearing more about you, your family and your story. Thanks for sharing with all of us!
DzMome
Thanks sweetie, for sharing your story. I cannot imagine how tremendously heartbreaking it has been for you. I cannot even begin to fathom the pain you went through, with the death of your father.
I strongly believe, that a lot of us, go through these bad relationships, due to the loss or abandonement of our fathers. Isn't their that song from John Mayer, "Fathers, be good to your daughters.". I don't really like that song, but the text in it, is very true.
Girls do have a strong connection to their fathers, as boys do to their mothers. Like the saying "Daddys little girl, or Mamma boys." I know from my sister, that with her 3 boys, these kids are completely healthy and well adjusted, even during the time without the oldest and his father, who was a drug addict and alcholic. His bond to his mother, my sister, was what was more important for him.
It's like Alex who has a strong connection to me, but inside of her, she has a stronger want and need to be connected to her father. It's hard to be both parents at once. In the end, I know, no matter how hard I try, it still won't have been good enough. I will still be blamed for something that I did wrong in my upbringing. Either not enough money, not finding a good relationship, not sending them to every in-group thing or giving them all that they dream. I can try to do my best, but in the end, they might nail me as not having done enough.
At any rate, abandonement issues that we deal with now, or dealt with, come from the root of our childhood. What happened in your childhood effects your life deeply. It's that short time span of childhood, that, unless you seek help of therapy later, that you will never be able to have a healthy relationship of your own. You continue to shut others out either by not loving them, or doing other things, like I have done (testing them, how far they go for me, how much stress they can take.). I just wonder and maybe someone can tell me this, what is sooo special about therapy, what do they do, that others have not been able to do for you? I know I want and need a therapy, but I often wonder, why I wasn't strong enough to overcome my insecuritites. Why I have always sought out men who also have been abandoned or abused in some way. Because I can't relate to others that have not? I often think about that and wonder if I choose the men in my life, because I can relate to them better. I don't know if I can relate to a man that has come out of a huge loving family, who has always had everything. Never to know what it was like to go through pain, hardships, poverty. Everyone seeks out someone to relate to, like Ian and I did. We saw we could relate to each other about every relationship we've been through; from our parents divorce and our own divorce. We had loads in common, more then I had in most people, but suddenly other things started bothering me. Like: Ok, I can relate to this guy, but is it enough? Is his lifestyle enough for me? Can I deal, that he might just be a couch potatoe, not very social, not many friends and always on deployment???? Can I deal that he has a little tooo much country in him, when I want someone that has a balance of both? Writing this now, I wonder, did I secretly do stuff, say stuff, to turn him off and make him run, because I myself started wondering if this guy wasn't worth it? That would be something I have always done. Do things, test him, see the reaction, secret bet with myself: can he deal or will he run? I already had these thoughts in my head the closer I got to him in my emails. Doubts.
It used to take me years to figure this stuff out and be in a relationship, now it takes me days. I now KNOW exactly what I want and I refuse to settle. I would love to be with that person and go out of my way to be with that person. Has anyone found themselves doing sommersaults for a guy, because you wanted to please him so bad? I did. I did things, spoiled them BEYOND belief! I think I wouldn't be so poor now, if I hadn't thrown my money around, to please them. I'd have more. Instead of just saying "this is me, I am a single and financially strapped woman, who is never sure if the money will last until the end of the month." I had to much pride to say that. Instead I wanted to show the opposite: I'm financially stable and I don't need you for your money and to show you, I'm going to: buy you anything you want: clothes, surfboard, playstation, CD and DVD burner, car radio, trips to Ireland, Holland, New Orleans or other places, book expensive weekend getaways in a hotel, take us out to star restaurants,etc etc etc, or little things like doing all the long distance calls. Just listing it all up in my head now for the first time is making me dizzy. I still do it. Instead of just waiting to go to Texas in the late Summer/Fall to look around, I decide it must be April, because I want to meet Ian. See? Doing it again. Only, I didn't book the ticket yet from Dallas to Fort Hood. I wanted to, but I decided not to be so impulsive and wait. I used the excuse to book the tickets to Texas only, because the flights were so cheap and I wanted to see my family and friends anyway. It worked out great too! Yet, I can't help but feel, I know that wasn't the initial reason I did it. I did it, because I wanted to please someone again.
I try so hard and then two things happens: either they drop me, like a hot plate, because they weren't SO INTO ME or, I scare them off in different way to get rid of them, because I don't trust that they want to be with me or because I am NOT so into them. I get upset, because they never pay a thing for me, or they are all cheap skates or they just don't want to, because I've done it all and it's comfortable and they just take advantage of the free ride. Whose fault is that? Theirs or Mine? I think mine for being so dumb. I don't deserve to have anyone, until I learn to be so stupid and learn to love myself and have confidence and be proud of myself. I'm not, that makes me a very sad individual. Self love is so important.
It just made me realize, I'm not much better then the scum I've dated.
The abandonment by my father started long before he killed himself. I see the suicide as the ultimate abandonment, the one thing that ensured he would never, no matter what, ever be there for me. If he hadn't killed himself, there would have been hope. Then somehow, even though he was gone, I still kept hoping for that. That doesn't really seem logical, but I suppose it's hard to let that hope die.
IMHO, the thing therapy does is speed up the process. It would probably take until I'm 80 to figure out all this stuff on my own, but in therapy, because I really work hard at it, I have been making a ton of progress. The reason it helps is that you have a trained professional who is objective (unlike family or friends) who can see things you can't. They can tell when you are hiding from a feeling or when you are doing things that are not going to help you get where you want to be.
One thing I learned is that when we fear the end of a relationship, we sometimes sabotage it (unconciously) bringing about what we fear most - the end. We do it because we'd rather *know* it's over than constantly fear it might not work out. It's a self fulfilling prophesy. If you focus on what might happen (the relationship ending) it will happen. The only reason I haven't sabotaged my relationship to this point is because my therapist and I were talking and he saw it coming, so he explained to me how that works. My therapist has told me when I would be justified in ending the relationship at times when I thought I wouldn't be. And he's also pointed out when I felt like ending it but my decision was hasty and for the wrong reasons. He lets me know when I'm doing things well and am acting in an emotionally healthy manner (like when my mom was here and didn't like my bf, he thought I handled it really well) and he also tells me when I'm not (like when I am bending over backwards to make my bf happy and ignoring my own feelings at the same time).
I think of my therapist as a guide to help me understand what a healthy relationship is, and be able to recognize when I am in one or not in one. I need this because I never observed a healthy relationship growing up, and I've never been a part of one before, so how am I supposed to know how one works? There have been times my relationship with my bf was completely healthy, and other times it has not been, and I am starting to build some confidence that I have the power to keep things on track, and take corrective action when it's not. I knew I needed to go to therapy after my divorce, but the thing that got me to go was I was a couple months into the relationship with my bf and I had an overwhelming realization "I'm going to Screw This Up" and so I went to therapy. I have no idea where I'd be without my therapist.
Thank you! That was very insightful, with some terrific points and it was a great help to know why it's sometimes important. Especially the part with:
"I think of my therapist as a guide to help me understand what a healthy relationship is, and be able to recognize when I am in one or not in one. I need this because I never observed a healthy relationship growing up, and I've never been a part of one before, so how am I supposed to know how one works?"
That is soooooooooooo true. I've never experienced one either. So how SHOULD I know?
How have things been going with you both lately? What the new story on him moving? How do you handle the stress that he could leave? What does your therapist say about it?
There is no new story. Same story. He has to decide, but it probably won't happen until after they settle the current dispute over child support, travel expenses, and visitation schedule. I know I won't hang around for years waiting for this to be resolved. I feel like I need to know something more certain in the next couple months.
My therapist helps me more with the little pieces, like how am I communicating my feelings, how do I think about my own feelings THIS week more than the overall question of whether I should keep sticking it out. He agrees with me that the relationship has great potential, and this is the first relationship where I have really opened myself up to loving someone and being loved, and the first time I've picked someone that is capable of that (we think). I love my therapist. I can just be going on blah blah blah and he'll say, "why are you sad" and without even seeing it coming I will burst into tears and then we'll start talking and it turns out there was something I was feeling that I was keeping below the surface and trying to ignore. It's like he can see it in my face. I always feel better after that, becuase I'm not hiding whatever feeling it was and I can focus on it, face it and deal with it. Sometimes it leads to a 'light bulb' like the realization a few weeks ago that *I* don't think my feelings are valid/important so that is why I was having such a hard time explaining my feelings to my bf. Othertimes things are going along fine and the session with my therapist just solidifies that I'm *not* ignoring something and I am on track (acting in an emotionally healthy way).
First,
You are amazing at what you have accomplished. You have had a really hard childhood and time with your father - I cannot imagine enduring all of that.
But I just want to say I admire that you can seek out the help of a therapist and do so much work.
I have enjoyed reading what the therapist has taught you and I have learned from it. Thank you for sharing that with us.
I think having the right therapist is the key to unlocking the past, learning to deal with it and being able to move forward. I think it's so great that you took that step for yourself. I think that is the biggest step towards healing, by being able to say "Enough, is enough, I know I deserve better then what I have been through. I am important and I want to be helped." Big hugs to you sweetie! You've been an incredible help all week, including my finances. LOL.
Wow, what an intense thread this has been. Not only emotional, but wonderfully helpful with a terrific insight. These are the threads that I often find keep me on this board. To open up and just give exactly what we feel, sometimes straightforward, sometimes not what we want to hear and other times, like these, where you feel a wonderful connection to one another as friends. I think I would of gone insane a few times had I not had people like you and the other ladies in my life, telling me to stay strong or just sending a hug.
Giving each other advice, care, sympathy or a kick in the butt, is the reason I strongly believe we have so many longtimers on this board. Straight forward and alot more real then some of our friends or our families can be with us.
Hey Catherine and all
I am going to go back and re-read this thread tomorrow (hopefully) because I know there is a lot of insight here and I really want to hear all you ladies have to share. But to be quite honest I had company today and consumed alot of wine so I'm a little unable to concentrate at the moment. But I did want to answer the original question.
I think there's two totally different situations that I feel two totally different ways about. If there is a guy I have been casually dating, I mean like a month or so, I really dont' care if he gives me an explanation. (Now obviously this is past tense.)
But in a real relationship where we're spending lots of time together, and intimate, yeah I'd feel entitled to an explanation if he suddenly ended things. But would it make me feel better? Probably not.
There was a guy I dated who I've posted on here about (way back when) who I dated for a few months and I fell head over heels for. We spent a great deal of time together and were intimate. I really thought things were good. A few months into it, he basically bailed and his reason was "I'm not that physically attracted to you." This was a guy who told me i had the most beautiful eyes he'd ever seen, blah blah blah. And we had lots of hotter than hot sex. But all of a sudden he wasn't into me physically? Did his excuses make me feel better? No. Really, quite the contrary. And there is a whole saga that followed this story which I'll spare you that makes me know these weren't his real reasons or at least not his main reasons, but none of that made me feel better at the time.
So, yes, we should and can expect honesty. But does it really make you feel any better when someone you like leaves? Nope.
Hugs
Tara
honesty and then silence!!
Jerry gave me the worst thing last week...saying I need time...to figure out what I want. So mentally I was in anguish just preparing for the worst. 4 days of silence waiting and it was sheer PAIN. He did finally call Saturday afternoon and we talked.
To do it again-- definitly be honest and make a firm decision to give a person peace of mind and closure.
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