SO sleeping over?

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
SO sleeping over?
22
Tue, 11-09-2004 - 12:24pm
Hi, new here. I am divorced and a mother of a beautiful 4 year old dd, and have 50/50 physical custody with my ex. I have been dating a man for a year, he has a 7 year old son and he just lost a custody battle so his son has been moved out of state. He is an excellent father and role model, and I hope for a future with him, although it's uncertain because he's still dealing with trying to see his son (cs and visitation are still being worked out and it's not been going well). I usually only see him when dd is with her dad, but over the past year there have been a 6-8 times he came over after dd went to bed and either left by 1am or ran out the door quickly when we heard dd was awake. In general he was reluctant to do this because we were living about 45 minutes apart and that is a long drive to only come over for a couple hours, and it sucks to have to run out the door as soon as she wakes up. Him and dd had never met, but I was hoping that we would plan a meeting soon.

A couple weeks ago he came over after dd fell asleep. When we did this before and when he didn't leave that night, we usually sleep on the living room floor (hard wood floor, wool rug, not comfy). Well for whatever reason we thought it would work to sleep in my room and then he'd wake up real early and leave. Well dd woke up super early and would not go back to sleep. It was a weekday and I went through several scenarios to get my boyfriend out of the house without dd knowing, or get us out of the house first and tell her some story about who's car was parked in the driveway... but in the end I just realized it was too complicated and I told her a friend of mine slept over. As far as she knows he slept in my room but I slept in her room (I often fall asleep in her room and then I am up before her). So we got ready and invited him to breakfast and it was actually a nice morning. She is usually extremely shy around new people (even grandparents she hasn't seen in a while) but she was talkative with him and he kept making her laugh, it was cute.

Now my plan was not to have them meet this way. And I do not want my dd getting attached to anyone until there is a plan to get married or at least it's looking like that is likely, and I don't plan on living with anyone unless marriage is on the horizon. But it's also been hard keeping the two people most important in my life apart, not knowing each other. What I'd like is that there are some times when he comes over when dd is with me, but he not take a parenting type role. Just be friends hanging out together while she is there. We have not been affectionate in front of her, although now that they met he has come over a couple more times. The thing is that we still live a good distance from each other, about 25 miles, and it's really a pain for him to come over for just a few hours. Is it horrible if there is an occasion when he does sleep over? I am not going to have men in and out of my house on a regular basis. This is one man, whom I've been dating for a year, who I see potential for marriage and more children with, who is a good role model and a responsible person. I just don't know for certain if we will be married in the future, yet. Has anyone else had a SO sleep over when kids are in the home?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 10:13am

I spend a lot of time considering what he can 'bring to the table' as compared to what I can provide for my daughter and my own life all by myself. I have been in therapy since near the beginning of this relationship mostly because I felt it was my first chance at a healthy adult relationship (something my marriage and my past relationships were not). Being in therapy has also been important because it's helped me communicate in a non-dysfunctional way with my ex, but the primary reason I went was because I thought this relationship with my boyfriend could go somewhere and I wanted to make the right decision for myself and my daughter.

Why his son's mother is this way is a good question. They were never married, they lived together. The relationship was essentially over when they found out she was pregnant, and they stayed together for a couple years until she left. She is now married. He explored trying to get more time with his son that the EOW and one weeknight, but he was told that it was unlikely he could get more, and spending money in court to try would be a waste. He tried to get her to give him more time with his son here and there, and she always refused. Nobody has said he was anything but a great dad.

Move-away custody cases are complicated and are complete wild cards (from what I know from my boyfriends case and from reading about other cases). Some judges/courts will let a CP move away from the other parent when there is no urgent reason for the move, and some other judges/courts will not let a CP move the children away when there is a very good and necessary reason for the move. In this case, the judge ruled in the best interests of the mom and step-father instead of the best interests of the child, IMHO. They argued they could provide a better quality of life if they moved, which means a bigger house. IMHO, a bigger house is not more important than having both your parents in your life, if like in this case, both parents are good parents, love the child and want what is best for the child.

My boyfriend is a wonderful, caring, involved father and nobody has ever said anything different. I know myself what kind of a parent and what kind of a person he is. Some people think fathers can take this sort of thing, but it has been as devastating for my boyfriend as it would be if I lost my daughter in a custody battle. I have read posts of women on other boards who lost custody due to some legal fluke, and what they describe going through emotionally is exactly what my boyfriend has been going through. While I do try to put myself in his shoes, it is hard because I cannot imagine the pain he feels being separated from his child.

The reason she is making visitation impossible right now is also a good question. From what we know, she just does not think it is important for them to spend time together. She refuses to contribute to the travel costs, and refuses to be flexible enough that a visit can be arranged. I feel it will get worked out eventually, but it's going to take some time and going back into court to make it happen.




Edited 12/27/2004 10:21 am ET ET by firstamendment

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2002
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 11:29am

Hi, and welcome!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2002
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 11:47am

"My boyfriend is a wonderful, caring, involved father and nobody has ever said anything different. I know myself what kind of a parent and what kind of a person he is."


I can vouch for the fact that a man with a truly horrible ex-wife who does/says truly horrible, angry, bitter things, can actually be a wonderful guy who has done nothing wrong to deserve this.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-25-2004
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 11:50am
You sound very thoughtful and it is impressive that you have given this so much thought and gone to counseling.

"I have been in therapy since near the beginning of this relationship mostly because I felt it was my first chance at a healthy adult relationship (something my marriage and my past relationships were not)"

Just remember that this is not the ONLY chance at a relationship. You cannot will it into being - it has to happen because both parties are willing and able. And not every person or every relationship is meant to last. Sometimes they are just meant to teach us something.

At any rate, I wish you the best with this situation. May you find peace and someone to really LOVE and CHERISH you because you and your daughter deserve nothing less. I hope you keep us updated. You have some real good responses here and I have learned from reading all of them.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 12:08pm
>>>My only thought for you is that because your boyfriend is still dealing with some painful life changes...."and right now he's at the point where he either has to move on with his life and try to accept and deal with the current situation, or he can let the situation destroy him."....my instinct is that it would be best for just a while to keep seeing him separately on dates, and your nocturnal visits, etc.<<<

Thank you for sharing all that. This does seem like a very supportive board, with lots of intelligent women giving very sound advice.

I get what you are saying above, but at what point do you say it's time to move on? His life was on hold for over two years. His son has been gone for several months and it could be several more months before he is 'allowed' to go visit him. He is going to have pain over this for the rest of his life. You can't miss your child growing and developing and be okay with it, and he knows he'll never get this time back. In our relationship for the past year we kept everything about our relationship separate from other parts of our lives because his future was so uncertain, everything in his life seemed to hinge on whether he would win or lose the case. I changed jobs and moved this past year and did not involve him in those decisions because I did not know if we had a future together or not. When I moved I did not ask for his help at all because my daughter was with me that week. I always knew what was going on in the custody case, but it was his problem and his situation to deal with and I was not involved in it at all.

Is keeping our relationship away from my daughter necessary for a few more months, 6 months, another year? Do I wait to involve her if/when we get engaged? Some of this may be my impatience at wanting the relationship to go to the next level and maybe I should think about that. I do not want my daughter to end up hurt by this if it doesn't work out. But won't I have to take that risk at some point? Is there a way to protect her completely from that risk, and still let the relationship go forward without having her involved in it? I know you may be right about waiting a while longer, but how do I know when the right time is? It feels like the right time is now, but how do I know for sure? Part of me wonders if I just have to go with my gut feeling on this, but what if I'm wrong and it doesn't work out and my daughter is hurt?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 12:24pm
>>>Just remember that this is not the ONLY chance at a relationship. You cannot will it into being - it has to happen because both parties are willing and able. And not every person or every relationship is meant to last. Sometimes they are just meant to teach us something.<<<

I completely agree with you. I know for a fact my past relationships were unhealthy because I chose to be with people who could not have mature, adult, healthy relationships. There were things about me that led me to choose those individuals. I could not have a healthy relationship until I was ready to be a healthy individual.

When my boyfriend and I split up for that month when he was trying to figure out a way to move near his son, I told him that I had thought we were in each other's lives so that we could be together and have a family together. But that if he was moving, perhaps we were just in each other's lives so that he could teach me what it meant to be a strong, self supporting, healthy individual, and I was in his life to help get him through the worst part of the whole custody battle (mostly by having someone to talk to and be supportive). When we broke up, it wasn't supposed to be for a month. It was supposed to be for good, he was going to find a way to move. But there are many reasons that moving does not make sense, although I could not tell him that at the time, he had to figure it out on his own. And so we ended up back in each other's lives (really it felt like we were apart two weeks, since we had generally only seen each other every other week). But I digress...

I know there are no guarantees. I want to protect my daughter from caring for someone and having him then leave, but I also want the relationship to continue to evolve and I sometimes I feel as if I've been leading two separate lives this past year. One week I live my life with my daughter, as a single mom with no boyfriend, then next week I live my life as a single person with a boyfriend and no child. I feel in my heart it may be time to bring those two lives together, but then again, maybe it is better to wait a while longer.

In any case, everyone has given me lots to think about :)

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2002
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 12:58pm

"I know you may be right about waiting a while longer, but how do I know when the right time is? It feels like the right time is now, but how do I know for sure? Part of me wonders if I just have to go with my gut feeling on this, but what if I'm wrong and it doesn't work out and my daughter is hurt?"


This is the tough part, because with relationships, you just never know for certain.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 1:24pm
You are right, he and I need to talk more about this. While it's nice to hear all these opinions, you guys aren't the one's making the decision with me.

>>>You said something that sounded like he might be at a personal crossroads: He either has to move on with his life, or he can let the situation destroy him. Does it still feel pretty up-in-the-air that he could go either way at this point?<<<

No, I think he was at that personal crossroads and has made it past that. It feels like he is back on solid ground now and ready to live his life again. He has many feelings about what has happened and it kills him to not see his son, but that is going to become a part of who he is - a father who has had his son taken away. At the same time, he seems to be through the worst of it and while he's doing everything he can to get a visitation schedule in place, he also seems ready to take control of his life back.

>>>"Some of this may be my impatience at wanting the relationship to go to the next level and maybe I should think about that." A very big element in getting the relationship to the next level that you want to get to, is his call. Getting your daughter involved won't get you to that next level. What exactly is the next level, and do you feel your boyfriend is pretty close to getting there himself?<<<

We had talked in the past about the seriousness of our relationship, and he made the comment that to involve himself deeply in my life and my daughters life would be selfish since he could not make a committment to me at that point. We were dating exclusively then, but this was during the trial phase of the custody battle and there were lots of ups and downs for him, he pretty much felt if he lost, his life was going to be over. He's come a long way from that point to today (losing, losing the appeal, saying goodbye to his son, and finally dealing with and accepting that he can't change the situation but can only continue to fight to get a reasonable visitation schedule).

I don't see my daughter's involvment as getting the relationship to the next level, but I do see her as being part of the next level. As in we are not going to get further in our relationship without being more involved in each other's lives. But the bottom line is what you said, he and I need to talk about this further. And I need to spend some more time thinking about the impact to my daughter.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2002
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 1:58pm

I hope that your talk goes really well, and that you're going to get just the reassurance you need to know for certain what's right for you, as far as your daughter's involvement.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Wed, 11-10-2004 - 2:19pm
"It feels like the right time is now, but how do I know for sure? Part of me wonders if I just have to go with my gut feeling on this, but what if I'm wrong and it doesn't work out and my daughter is hurt?"

I say go with your gut, but be prepared for the circumstances. Yes you're taking a risk, but as long as your daughter feels loved by you and you help her understand things, she will survive.

When my daughter was 5, I was involved with a man that I thought was going to stick around for a long time, even though things were a bit rocky. He was my first serious relationship after separating from my ex (divorce not final yet). He ended up meeting my daughter, my mother, and my brother. We went to Disneyland together...my daughter knew this man was a close friend of mine, they spent time together and she befriended him. Shortly after that, he had to move back to Florida because his parents family business was struggling and his dad was sick. We put the relationship "on hold" and eventually ended it. Naturally, my daughter wondered what happened to him and asked a few questions, and I explained to her that even though M and Mommy really liked eachother and M thought that she was a super kid, we couldn't be together.

Kids learn about love and loss in many different ways. Friends moving away, switching schools, etc. To me, this is another way it happens. But it doesn't have to be a devastating blow.

You're boyfriend sounds like a great guy and you seem to have given this a great deal of thought. I think occasional sleepovers could be handled...I wouldn't launch a full blown relationship between your bf and you daughter though, until you feel comfortable with where things are headed.

Wish you the best of luck with all of this!