Test of a healthy relationship?
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| Wed, 02-09-2005 - 1:18pm |
Just some rambling thoughts...
It's hard to know if my relationship with my bf is ending or not. His depression over losing his son has gotten worse, and dating him is a lot like dating a bear in hybernation (he sleeps all the time). Last time he went through this he came out of it, and I expect he will this time (he got to see his son finally, and then he has to go through the pain of separation all over again). I expect he will come out of it and we will continue our relationship. But I can't know that for sure.
Anyway, I was thinking about it (a post on another board got me thinking) and I wonder if a test of a healthy relationship was how your self esteem holds up. Not all relationships work out and that's not bad. If you were in a healthy relationship you learned about relationships and about yourself, and it was a worthwhile experience no matter the outcome, right? I was thinking about this because someone on another board is having some self-esteem problems right at the same time she can't let go of an abusive relationship. I think they are connected. Staying in a bad relationship can cause self esteem problems. Failure to leave a bad relationship when the writing is all over the walls is a sign of an emotionally unhealthy person (not to knock being emotionally unhealthy, most everyone has been there at some point).
I feel a strong desire to sit back and see if my bf pulls himself through this latest struggle. Like I said, I think he will. I could just as easily say the relationship is not meeting my needs and walk away, but it's not meeting my needs because he's going through a crisis, and what he needs from me is to give him space and I'm okay with that for now. Him pulling away from me could also be a sign the end of the relationship is coming, and I have to face that possibilty. If it does end I will be sad, very sad, and disappointed. I still feel strong, independant, confident and my Plan B is solidly in place. I know I will be okay. I will always appreciate what my bf has done for me, he has taught me so much about living my life for me and about being a good parent. I laugh when I think about him going off a few weekends ago about the affect that Disney has on young girls by portraying all lead female characters as beautiful, busty, impossibly skinny and dressed overly sexy (he said this in concern for my dd because I had bought her another Disney video, although he does admire beautiful, sexy women himself... his comments are never condesending, and he has this way of expressing his opinion that is honest and I appreciate that). If the relationship was to be over, I will miss his advice and his guidance, and the awesome sex and his gorgeous body, and all the cuddling. But I will not feel like I can't go on, or that I am nothing without him. My strength as an individual has grown in the relationship, not suffered.
When I started going to therapy a year ago, my big question was, "What IS a healthy relationship? What does it look like, how can you tell if you are in one?" So is that it? Do I have the answer to my question? A healthy relationship is one where self esteem remains in tact, you grow as a person, you add something to each other's lives without taking something else away and you maintain your identity... and even if it ends, you mourn it's passing but are able to walk away holding on to the good memories?
Edited just a little.
Edited 2/9/2005 2:21 pm ET ET by firstamendment


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i have to admit i'm asking myself the same question "What IS a healthy relationship? What does it look like, how can you tell if you are in one?"
i do think you might be on to some thing there, when you said it has to do with maintaining self-esteem and you add some thing to each others lives. It sounds like a wonderful idea and i'd love to be in a relationship like that.
In my marriage things were not like that at all. This is why i've asked myself the same question. My new interest has me doubting i ever loved anyone (or was in a healthy relationship) before.
i'll be watching this thread to see how others respond.
good luck
"When I started going to therapy a year ago, my big question was, "What IS a healthy relationship? What does it look like, how can you tell if you are in one?" So is that it? Do I have the answer to my question? A healthy relationship is one where self esteem remains in tact, you grow as a person, you add something to each other's lives without taking something else away and you maintain your identity... and even if it ends, you mourn it's passing but are able to walk away holding on to the good memories?"
___________
Sorry to hear your BF is having hard times again because of his son's geographical distance and limited visitation. That must be so hard for him - and I really understand as a parent. You have put a lot into it and learned a lot so I can understand your patience. Although I do wonder as you must, that you are sitting on a time bomb with the issue of him wanting more kids.
I can give you my opinion of a healthy relationship - or at least what I want for me.
My idea of a healthy relationship is one where both people meet each other's emotional needs and there are not major lovebusters and both feel lucky to have the other and there is a future and it is progressing. By future I mean I would see a clear future with this person - he is not married, does not have addictions or financial flags or mental problems, doesn't live far away and isn't going to move any time soon. By progressing I would mean he is comfortable with intimacy and is not afraid of commitment and falling in love.
I hope that helps. I think you are right on with yours - especially with your points of self esteem and maintaining identity and how it would end. And all you can do now is wait and see and give him space for now - anyone would need that after going through a troubling time.
Do you see or feel a pattern with the visitations? Is his hibernation getting shorter with each one? Or is he spiralling down into deeper dispair? I guess what I am trying to ask is if he is showing signs of coming to grips with his situation.
One of the best descriptions I've read (it came from one of these boards, but it was copied from somewhere else...not sure who the author is):
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What is a healthy intimate relationship?
To have a healthy intimate relationship, each partner has to make a commitment to care about the other partner, the relationship and themselves. Each works at developing good communications skills, maintaining goodwill, and fostering the flexibility to change and grow while remaining connected. Each person is respected and valued for who they truly are - not what we imagine they are or who we think they should be. While this acceptance does not mean liking everything about their behavior, it does mean that the behaviors we do not like are tolerable and nondestructive. In intimate relationships, we offer and are offered validation, understanding, and a sense of being appreciated - intellectually, emotionally, and physically. Through this process of sharing, mutual vulnerability, and care, each couple creates their own unique sense of "we" and "us".
Many of us have difficulty developing this kind of intimate relationship in spite of our desire for it because of two major fears: the fear of being close and the fear of being alone. These fears about intimacy do not mean that we are afraid of intimacy itself. Rather we are often afraid of being hurt, of not doing it right, of the price we think we have to pay for being close, or of not being able to choose how close or how far away we want to be at any particular time.
Many of us also have inaccurate beliefs about what being intimate means. We may think that we have to be close all the time or that we will hurt our partner if we pull back even a little bit. We may think that being close means always doing what our partner wants, even when it conflicts with what we want for ourselves. We may believe that we must always take care of our partner or that our partner must always take care of us. We may worry that the price of intimacy is never wanting what our partner does not provide, or we may have the equally unrealistic idea that our partner should never want what we cannot provide.
These fears often cause us to put up barriers against closeness. Yet intimacy requires sharing all parts of ourselves - our strengths as well as our weaknesses. If you would like to increase the level of intimacy in your relationship, what can you do?
Risk being open. Intimacy requires that you reveal your thoughts and feelings and that you be fully open to hearing your partner's. You both need to say what you feel and think, honestly yet diplomatically. Criticisms and denials of your feelings will result in withdrawal and will limit sharing thoughts and feelings with your partner.
Any openess that creates even a little bit of vulnerability is a risk. It is easier to take these risks if you trust that your partner will not hurt you on purpose, that they will keep your confidences, and that they will try to understand rather than judge. If you feel judged or punished when you disclose your thoughts and feelings, you will probably withdraw.
You need to offer and receive signs of caring. Feeling close is enhanced by showing we care - often in a variety of ways, including cherishing behaviors or small, inexpensive gifts. In quality relationships, these signs of caring are personal, frequent and go both ways.
When it comes to showing we care, the Golden Rule is reversed. Rather than treating our partner as we wish to be treated, we need to treat them the way they want to be treated. To do this we need to listen respectfully to their requests and to notice which of our behaviors please or displease them. If we are not sure, we need to ask. And, since no one is a mind reader, we also need to ask clearly for what we want.
Intimacy requires that a couple share important values, interests, and goals. Shared goals are a sign of commitment, and they provide a feeling of stability and a sense of the future together. When we know that our efforts are directed toward mutually agreed upon goals, it is easier to tolerate occasional neglect or differences of opinion. Each investment of our time, money and energy that benefits the relationship is a contribution to the future of "we". This is the bond that gives the relationship continuity and purpose.
A quality relationship is not a random affair, and it cannot be achieved through the efforts of only one partner. Healthy intimate relationships take both individual and combined efforts. They are built through a cohesive series of events and interchanges that are determined by each of the partners. A couple's mutual choices determine whether their relationship will be good or bad.
If you are not at a place in your life where you can embrace these ideas of intimacy, it is quite possible that you are not ready for a healthy intimate relationship.
>>>Although I do wonder as you must, that you are sitting on a time bomb with the issue of him wanting more kids...... Do you see or feel a pattern with the visitations? Is his hibernation getting shorter with each one? Or is he spiralling down into deeper dispair? I guess what I am trying to ask is if he is showing signs of coming to grips with his situation.<<<
I am not sure what you mean about him wanting more kids. You are right that this relationship does not have a future if he decides to move, and it cannot progress until he makes a solid committment to a future with me. As far as the pattern, the first time he went through this was when they moved away, and then he's seen his son once. There is no way to discern a pattern yet. He was showing signs of coming to grips with the situation, and now he's having a setback IMHO, but I really can't know for sure. He is trying to work through the courts to resolve the visitation and child support issues, and if he is successful then there will be a regular visitation schedule in place that he can afford to comply with... at that point (if we are still dating each other) he will be able to figure out if he can stay and see his son infrequently (but regularly) or if he feels he must move. It's hard because the other side using stall tactics to make the court process take as long as possible, not caring if he see's his son regularly. I think a lot of the depression right now is not knowing when the next visit will be in addition to the separation pain.
>>>If you are not at a place in your life where you can embrace these ideas of intimacy, it is quite possible that you are not ready for a healthy intimate relationship.<<<
That is a great post and it's right on track with some of the things I have been feeling (like letting myself be at risk). After reading that, I think my situation might more accurately be portrayed as a healthy person facing an unhealthy relationship - but the reason it's not so healthy right now is that my bf's dealing with a personal crisis. I am not sure how I would handle it if I was in my bf's situation, but from reading posts from NCP mom's who lose nasty and lengthy custody battles, what my bf is experiencing is to be expected. I believe (and my therapist agrees) that my relationship was healthy in the beginning and has turned more unhealthy recently, but again, it's situational and it can turn around if the situation my bf is in turns around and if he decides he does want to stay and have a future with me.
First - I wanted to respond to you.
Sheri's post (Northwestwanderer) about what constitutes a healthy relationship was dead on. And your response to her that you have a healthy relationship that is currently dealing with an unhealthy situation - I also felt was accurate, given what you have told us.
TT, my dh, has gone through exactly what your boyfriend is going through right now. He and I have talked about it - we talked about in great detail, actually, when I was pregnant and we were working toward our life together. I also have developed a friendship with one of his ex-girlfriends (no lectures on that please) who was with him for 4 years - 4 of what he calls the hardest years as far as his custody stuff went. He said, and she confirmed . . . .
He only was allowed to see his son on spring (4 days), winter (4 days) and summer (4 weeks) break. He was allowed to fly to where his son lived on 3 days weekends and spend time with him, but due to his living across the country and working in the hotel industry which doesn't observe weekends (actually - weekends are the meat and potatoes of the hotel industry - and at that point in time he was a front desk manager - he couldn't get off - period - especially for a 3 day weekend which meant EXTRA busy), he didn't get to visit him for 3 day weekends very often. Everytime he took his son to the airport, he would fall into a funk. On the days he would take his son to the airport, he would get home and shut himself in his son's room, lay on his bed, and cry. He often would not come out of his son's room until the next morning. And then, for a good week, he would be very reclusive, even from her, whom he was living with. He would stay in his son's room rather than in the living room with her. He would sleep in his son's bed. I remember asking him "what was it that finally made you go back to your own bed?" and he said "when I couldn't smell my son on the sheets anymore - and I could only smell myself." That was such a poignant moment to me. He said that him leaving after summer break was the hardest, as he would always feel like he would really bond with his son during those 4 weeks, and that he knew in his heart it would be another YEAR before he would get to spend any substantial time with his son. During the four years he was with his ex, he tendered his resignation twice and planned to move to where his son was (his old home) to be with him. He said something stopped him each time - namely the fear that as soon as he did that - his exwife would pick up and move again, just to spite him. He said the years that it was the worst were when his son was between the ages of 8 and 12 - and he said he thought those years because he could sense how much his son needed him - and how he was being replaced by his son's stepdad. Not in his son's heart - but in his son's life.
His son is 20 now. And he still hurts. And his son hurts. Which makes him hurt more. He and his son had a very long, tearful telephone conversation in November with his son yelling and crying and asking lots of questions he's never asked before. And being told things he's never been told before. He asked TT why he left him and his mom. He didn't know that his mom had left HIM. Didn't know his mom had an affair and demanded a divorce. Didn't know his mom filed papers to have his parental custody terminated. He had numerous talks with his grandparents (her parents, who were VERY honest with him, and their honesty paints his mother in a horrible light). Another tearful conversation in December. They didn't speak the entire month of January (they normally speak every two to three days). His son called ME in February and asked how he was doing and if he liked the new job. I said yes, and encouraged him to call his dad. He told me he talked to his grandparents and they confirmed everything his dad had told him. He said that he had tried to talk to his mom and she became very angry and flatly refused to discuss it. He is really hurting right now. He asked that I tell TT that he love him and that he's getting his voice mails and that he'll call him directly when he can talk.
I'm so sorry for you. I'm so sorry for your boyfriend. I am so sorry for his son. There are no easy answers for this. While your boyfriend tries to sort things out - you can determine that this is too much for you. It would be ok.
Oh - and just so you know. My dh and his exgirlfriend - the one that lived with him those 4 years, they didn't break up due to this issue at all. She got a job opportunity in the Virgin Islands that she really, really, really wanted to take. Dh didn't want to go, and didn't want her to miss out on the opportunity. Neither of them wanted to do a long distance relationship. They split very ammicably 8 years ago. She just got married last year, and STILL lives in the Virgin Islands.
Mindy
http://cosmosandcranium.blogspot.com/
I thought that you said that you were unsure about him wanting to marry you because he does want more children and you really don't think you do want them or can have them?
You have some really good posts here - the one from sunshinemin is so enlightening. What a story - and what pain for the father and son!!!!
Thank you so much for that. What you describe is so similar to what my bf is going through. He does fear that his son will grow up and believe he didn't do enough to stay involved in his son's life. His son knows the true reason they moved away, but he has no idea his dad fought in court for over two years to keep his son near him, or that his mother said in court that his dad was unimportant since he has a step-dad now. My bf wants his son to know the truth, but he also doesn't want his son to think less of his mother. He has all the court paperwork and when his son is old enough and if his son is asking to know the truth, he will show them to his son. There are so many reasons to move and so many reasons not to move, there is no clear way to make this situation okay. He misses his son so much it makes him physically ill.
I had therapy last night and we talked about being with someone that is experiencing depression. I know my needs are not being met right now, but I also know I will not regret standing by my bf as he goes through this. If he comes out of it, gets a regular visitation schedule that he can follow, if he decides to stay and not move away, then we will find out if our relationship has a future. If that whole process cannot happen, if he remains in limbo about moving for years and can never get the visitation worked out, then I probably will not stick around until it is resolved. I think I'm just not ready to give up yet.
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