Ugh! Long vent (enter at own risk)

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-14-2003
Ugh! Long vent (enter at own risk)
25
Tue, 08-16-2005 - 2:03pm
So my mom calls me at work to tell me that "we never really got to talk in depth about your new BF (Tony)" She always does this - always waits till I feel happy to say something to hurt me or as she calls it 'open my eyes'.
Ok I say, what did you want to tell me. Well he seems a lot like your ex husband.....at this point I am in tears.....he mumbles when he talks and he has that nervous leg thing (bounces leg) and he has a lot of loose ends to tie up. I am also concerned that he isn't divorced yet, and I think that you are playing family too much. It is confusing to L (my daughter). I explained to my mom that his divorce is moving as fast as possible, and that we introduced the kids because there were some family parties we were invited to. I mentioned that we do not kiss or hug or anything in front of the kids. I do admit that L is a little confused because she hears Tony's son call him dad so she repeats it, but she is 18 months old - how can I explain it to her?! Then my mom proceeds to say that we are not dating - we are acting as a family already. Where is the dating? I'll admit that it has been a few weeks since the two of us went out alone. But he is taking me out for the whole day/night on Friday for my bday. My mom has no idea that he comes over to my house after L goes to sleep, she also has no idea that we are sleeping together. She proceeded to say that the relationship is going to fast and that we are creating a family when we don't even really know each other. She feels Tony is "replacing his wife" thru me because he isn't even divorced yet and he is already in love with me. (she didn't give more specifics for that) She feels that I am also going backwards because Tony has a lot of loose ends - ie his divorce and a business that was failing so he owes a lot of money. My mom knows I have a tendency to meet men at the worst stage of their life, and then they meet me, I fix them and they leave me. I agree with her on that, so I am trying my best to stay out of all of the loose ends he has to tie. Tony claims that when he asks me to be with him - marry him - he will be "fixed" already so I won't have any doubts. Tony knows this is a HUGE issue for me, because I don't want to feel used anymore. I was used by my college bf, used by my husband, now exh, and I don't have the strength to recover from another blow like that. Like I didn't feel insecure enough about my life....my mom knows that I am always second guessing myself especially in the relationships department. I am sooooo upset at work right now! I am fighting back the tears! I just don't understand why I have to go thru the same thing whenever I meet someone. Could I really be meeting the same type of guy over and over again?! Or does my mother word it so that it would appear that I was?
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-13-2005
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 12:06pm

There is an excellent post on the DASP (dating as single parent) board discussing the one year rule - meaning you are not ready for a relationship until one year after a divorce.

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-psdatesingle&msg=5485.12&ctx=128

Here is an excerpt of 2 posts that I put there:
I have read all the posts and agree with the one year rule. I would interpret it as one year beyond the final ink from the divorce. And I believe, after going through it all, that is a kind figure - more time should be needed.

First of all, it isn't really final until it is final. You tend not to put the house in your name, sort out all of the financial stuff, let the new custody/visitation stuff sink in and get on with your life until the ink is dry. And all of this takes time - much more than a year in my opinion. And that was with a friendly divorce - no contests. I believe if there is a battle over finances and custody it would take even longer.

My checklist would include:

- enough time has passed that custody/visitation is not an issue anymore - it is much like getting gas put in the car
- you have all of your financial ducks in order - not sweating the bills
- you feel happy and in control of your life - on all fronts - how you look, what you are doing, what your house looks like, your career, your kids - no drama
- you have found yourself again as a single individual
- you have developed new friends and new interests
- you know why your marriage failed - and what the 50% contribution from you was - it could be that you made a poor decision with your spousal choice or that you failed to set boundaries or whatever - but you can totally know WHY and how you will do it different
- enough time has passed that you see your divorce as a blessing
- enough time has passed that you have mourned the loss of a marriage and a spouse deeply; this goes way beyond the period of bliss that you feel when you are free of a failed marriage and bad spouse; it is a deep and sad loss in my opinion

I have passed through all of these things. IN the beginning it was euphoric to date a lot of people through online dating. But I would have made bad choices. I have been "not dating" for 2.5 years and have really developed myself and healed.

I am in a much different place. The funny thing is that while I am very sure of what Mr. Right will be for me, I am so okay being single that I am not in a rush to find him. He will see my positive points and treat me like gold. He will not have any red flags for a positive relationship. And I won't have to do any real work to get this - just be myself.

I am busy being very social with lots of friends and activities - and it is just a matter of time before I bump into him.

I hope this helps somehow. I don't know what you would call all of my rules or tips - but they certainly take more than a year to achieve. It took me 4 years after a 10 year marriage. I believe I would have arrived faster if I wasn't trying so hard to date and be with someone the first 2 years.

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I think one of the reasons why people hurry to date so fast is that they are in a negative hole for emotional fulfillment - they are hurting from being hurt and not loved. And they wrongly assume that another person will fill that hole.

The hole in your heart has to fill in itself - and I believe this happens over time with lots of people and activities in your life.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-14-2003
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 1:35pm
Sorry I have to disagree with the one year rule - it doesn't apply to everyone. Like I said my parents met the same way and they have been married 32 years.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 1:46pm

While I agree with you that the one year rule does not have to apply to everyone in every situation, the checklist that West gave is a good very one. I would say I met 90-95% of the checklist criteria when I started dating, even though it was very shortly after I had separated, and the remainder I was able to accomplish while dating my x-bf. There are also people who don't meet most of that criteria several years after the divorce. The 'one year rule' is arbitrary, but it does make sense in most situations for most people and that is why so many believe in the rule. However, I think a better test is if you and your bf have accomplished the items on the checklist and if you have, then you are ready to have a healthy relationship together. If one of you haven't accomplished the items on the checklist, then you are more likely to a have a bumpy and less healthy road ahead.

I do think the conversation you had with your bf was a good one to have, and only you can decide if this relationship is right for you right now.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-14-2003
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 1:50pm

I am learning to accomplish what is on my list - but sometimes things are not going to work on the timeline I have set for myself.

One thing I have been critized for as a personality flaw is that I live my life by rules and lists, and "Life is what happens while you are busy making plans"

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 2:23pm

Here is West's checklist and what I think the key issues are. I do think you can date while you are doing these things, but I think your relationship will not be as healthy (at a minimum it will make things more difficult) and you will potentially have more relationship issues if you haven't already accomplished much of what is on the list. JMHO.

- enough time has passed that custody/visitation is not an issue anymore - it is much like getting gas put in the car

Reason to do this while not dating: This is harder to work out when there is a third person in the way, and you are not only negotiating with your co-parent but also trying to make something that works with your bf's schedule and that your bf agrees with and approves of.

What to do if you are dating: Communicate about custody/visitation with your co-parent, keep your bf out of the discussions/decisions.

- you have all of your financial ducks in order - not sweating the bills

Reason to do this while not dating: Dating can be expensive, and you need to know you can stand on your own two feet without someone else's help or with the extra cost of planning outings, trips and dates. You also want to know your bf can stand on his own two feet without your help, support, guidance or advice.

What to do if you are dating: Keep money separate, budget for dating and keep it within your means. Don't discuss money issues with each other if at all possible. Make sure each person is responsible for their own issues, and that means no borrowing from each other but it also means no coming up with solutions for each other either.

- you feel happy and in control of your life - on all fronts - how you look, what you are doing, what your house looks like, your career, your kids - no drama
- you have found yourself again as a single individual
- you have developed new friends and new interests

Reason to do this while not dating: When you are in a relationship, the focus tends to be on the relationship and less on yourself as an individual

What to do if you are dating: Make sure you have plenty of quality alone time and focus on your personal life too, not just the relationship.

- you know why your marriage failed - and what the 50% contribution from you was - it could be that you made a poor decision with your spousal choice or that you failed to set boundaries or whatever - but you can totally know WHY and how you will do it different
- enough time has passed that you see your divorce as a blessing
- enough time has passed that you have mourned the loss of a marriage and a spouse deeply; this goes way beyond the period of bliss that you feel when you are free of a failed marriage and bad spouse; it is a deep and sad loss in my opinion

Reason to do this while not dating: Again, if you are in a relationship you end up putting a lot of focus and energy towards making that work, and you'll spend less time on healing and resolving past issues, you might ignore past issues and think they are resolved only to find later they are causing problems in your new relationship

What to do if you are dating: Find a good therapist to help you work through past issues, understand the downfall in your marriage and make sure you stay on track in your current relationship and you are in that relationship for the right reasons. Keep checking in with yourself to make sure it feels right and like two healthy people enjoying each other and not two co-dependant people who can't live without each other.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-14-2003
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 2:50pm

Here is my list:

Custody/Visitation
For Me - Not an issue, my ex refuses to be a part of my dd's life
For Him - his lawyer and his STBX's lawyer are working on the agreement, we have agreed that HE should handle his ex alone and HE does the pick up and drop off alone and that our schedules would have to accommodate the visitation schedule as best possible

Financial
For me - I have a budget and plan and I am sticking to it as best as I can - I don't have any money to lend and I won't borrow money from him - we have NO shared accounts, etc.
For Him - he has a failed business and a lot of divorce-related debt that he knows he has to come out of on his own. He never asked for my help in this matter.

Social
For me - I still hang out with my family and friends and my dd is involved in a lot of activities; I do let him know when I want to be alone
For him - he hangs out with his family, he is a little in limbo with friends because in divorce friends can be fickle, so he is learning who his true friends are; He lets me know when he needs to be alone

Divorce/Self-Discovery

For me - I was emotionally divorced LONG before I was actually divorced. Went to counceling while I was married - I know what I did wrong and I am learning to understand who I am. I am not in therapy because I don't really see the need for it, however, I realize it is an option should I need it

For him - he was emotionally divorced LONG before he was legally separated, he went to counceling while he was married and for the most part knows what he did wrong and is learning who he is. He is not in therapy now. We have agreed to go to therapy should either of us feel it is important to our relationship.

I think we are on the right track so far!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 2:58pm

I think that is what matters, that you know you are on track.

Going back to your OP, I know when my mom had a bad reaction to my x-bf, part of it was her worrying about me and not wanting me to be hurt or make another mistake. I told her I was definitely going to make some more mistakes, but that's okay. She knows this logically but I'm her daughter and her reaction to want to protect me is automatic. Hopefully things will work out great with your bf and overtime your mom will see you are on track and she will be less concerned about your relationship and more open to it.

How do you feel about your bf's debt situation? Do you think it's something he can take care of on his own, or if you end up together would it eventually be your problem too?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-14-2003
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 3:21pm

I am not thrilled about the debt situation, but I can see how it snow balled. It started off as a business debt, then rolled into his personal life. Worst case scenario is that he declares bankruptcy, which I am told isn't the end of the world...my aunt has done it several times, and she seems to be fine. I did tell BF that if we were to get involved, I wanted a pre-nup or some type of agreement that states I am not responsible for any of the debt he incurred before the marriage. He absolutely agrees.

My mom is TERRIFIED of me getting hurt - sometimes I think she is more afraid then I am. I realize this is an unrealistic view - I would love for my dd to go thru life unhurt - but moms do that.

I calmed down. I see her points and I am watching out for them.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-30-2003
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 6:08pm

The money thing would be a deal breaker for me. If you do marry this guy, make sure he is debt-free and won't go into debt again.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 7:02pm

"Worst case scenario is that he declares bankruptcy, which I am told isn't the end of the world...my aunt has done it several times, and she seems to be fine. I did tell BF that if we were to get involved, I wanted a pre-nup or some type of agreement that states I am not responsible for any of the debt he incurred before the marriage. He absolutely agrees."

What about afterwards though? If he has created enough debt and ruined his financial situation enough to declare bankruptcy that is a pretty big deal. So what if it's easy to do? How will he learn from his past mistakes? What's to ensure that once he declares bankruptcy and starts with a clean slate he won't spiral down again and take you with him this time?

You speak of your aunt as if it's no big deal...but you know, it's partially because of people that do what she's doing that rates and fees are so high. I'm not so sure I would be proud of that or use that as an excuse to make it OK to have poor credit and bad money management.