Visitation update ...

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-15-2004
Visitation update ...
52
Fri, 06-06-2008 - 12:09pm

Things have been going well so far.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2006
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 1:47pm
Well, assuming Avery has a bedtime like my son - we are talking about a half hour here with a sitter and then the rest of the time at night would be to supervise sleeping? At this point in their battle I think she only gives him power by curtailing her quite normal existence to supervise sleeping and keep him from grilling her. I think by her living normally without asking permission or tip toeing is exactly what she needs to do to establish boundaries and space between them, period.
He has been verbally and emotionally abusive to her and in front of the doc which is quite disturbing and cannot be seen as hearsay or one sided. He made that mistake and has made it more than once so the consequences are his to deal with, not rlch's to cushion or make better for him. I sincerely believe that without having to deal with the consequences of his actions or having her cushion them to make them easier on his ego, he will have very little chance of healing/changing and being the father Ave needs and deserves. And at this point, I think we are all being rather generous in even seeing that still as a possibility based on his actions -even recent ones.
Lilypie - Personal picture
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-08-2007
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 6:15pm

I get that he used his child as a pawn. He wasn't ready for the marriage to end and he used his child as a pawn to get to you/try to hang onto you. Some moms do it in divorce, try to hurt the father through the kids. It's horrible parenting and wrong, but not legal abuse or neglect. It sounds like the not feeding her was a ploy to get your attention/get back at you/draw you into the situation. Maybe since some years have passed since the seperation, maybe he's letting go of you mentally/getting over you and now wants a relationship with his daughter. But everyone is throwing the past in his face, making him jump through hoops to prove himself worthy.


THere are some situations where a parent cannot have visitation by law or only so much visitation by law. Are you saying that if you 2 came up with a visitation arrangement that was more liberal than the current one, and went to court to finalize that the court would refuse? From what you wrote, it sounds more like using the child as a pawn than legal abuse/neglect. Only because verbal/emotional abuse is not a reason in and of itself to lose your children.


I'm more of a lurker, but I've been following this, and that's what the situation sounds like to me. I know everyone on the board thinks he's a horrible monster, the nickname and the whole thing. But I think this only perpetuates a dysfunctional pattern. And if I'm right, your daughter will look back when she's an adult and resent BOTH of you for all this bs she went through. Don't hold being an abusive husband and an a$$hole during the initial seperation/divorce against him as a father. Give a little and see if things have settled down and they can have their own father daughter bond.


All I see coming out of the current pattern is you spinning your wheels and going through 5-10 yrs of drama or your ex finally giving

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2006
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 6:57pm

I have to respectfully disagree with almost your entire post.

"But everyone is throwing the past in his face, making him jump through hoops to prove himself worthy."
Not true. You must have missed the posts in your lurking where he has very recently been extremely verbally abusive to Avery in front of the pysch. These are not past events but current ones. This is not about the past when rlch has been paying for his counseling while not receiving child support and buying gifts for Ave from her father at his request to path the way for them to have a relationship. She is clearly trying to let go of the horrific past and is trying to do everything she can financially and otherwise to help them HAVE a relationship.

"Don't hold being an abusive husband and an a$$hole during the initial seperation/divorce against him as a father."
If she was doing this, none of the things I just listed her as doing above would be happening. If anything the father has undermined rlch as a mother in front of Ave and the Dr because of his bitterness and unresolved issues around the marriage and divorce, not the other way around.

"From what you wrote, it sounds more like using the child as a pawn than legal abuse/neglect. Only because verbal/emotional abuse is not a reason in and of itself to lose your children."
What is the legal definition of abuse and neglect? Regardless of what he hopes to accomplish by verbally bashing Avery or by not having food in the house or by scaring her so badly she locks herself in the bathroom - to me, it is still abuse. The motive is not interesting to me - the abuse doesnt get excused because he is trying to punish rlch if that is truly what he is doing. The guy has no impulse control and this is the minimum kind of requirement for a good parent IMHO.

With all due respect lurking only yields a certain amount. When you are posting you tend to follow things a bit more carefully because you are participating. I think if you de lurked you might have a different opinion after a while...

Lilypie - Personal picture
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2003
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 6:58pm

But everyone is throwing the past in his face,

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-15-2004
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 7:12pm
Im not going to defend my actions to you. I dont need to. If you've been following the situtation as you claim, & you still feel as you say you do - well, then ... I suppose youre in the same frame as mind as he is, & I dont give much credence to someone who has those values.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-08-2007
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 7:26pm
Yes and I disagree with her paying for the visits and the gifts and food etc. It's all part of a cycle of dysfunction. I don't say she's not trying in her own way, I still say she's going about it wrong. Her actions smack of control same as his.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-07-2005
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 7:27pm

"But everyone is throwing the past in his face, making him jump through hoops to prove himself worthy. "


Because he was NOT worthy of a relationship with his daughter- and was and is mentally/ verbally abusive to her, about her and with her.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-08-2007
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 7:29pm
Ok then back to lurking. FYI, I was with an abusive husband and I left him,and I'm in a healthy happy non abusive relationship. I don't condone abuse in any way, but as an outsider, I see you and your ex enmeshed in a
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2003
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 7:43pm

One of the was to survive abuse is to convince yourself that it "wasn't that bad".

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-22-2006
Sat, 06-07-2008 - 8:18pm
Congratulations for getting out of an abusive relationship. I did the same years ago and have never looked back - this wasnt my child's father though so I didnt have to look back - I made a clean break. We werent married so I didnt have the legal battle or the custody concerns rlch has. I thank God every day for this because I would hate to be dealing with someone so psychotic around the care of our child almost every day. It seems to me that your situation must have been extremely unique - arent they all - and so is rlch's predicament. To say that they are from the same coin and that both she and her ex are about abuse and control is not only false IMO but it is borderline abusive of you to say so. I only hope she has you on ignore because as much as you might claim to be trying to help, telling her that her efforts to restore her daughter's relationship with her father are abusive and controlling considering the circumstances is over the top and lacks empathy. If she hadnt shielded Avery by covering his butt and buying gifts for him, providing food when there wasnt any, and funded counseling for all of them, what kind of sunny situation do you think they would all be in exactly? Should she just allow him to unleash his fury on Ave at will or beat at her self worth or decide some days not to feed her and wait for things to get worse? Since when do mothers get judged for preventing that abuse from happening? For setting boundaries so that the system can help them and their children feel safe? For hoping against hope and bank accounts that their ex will wake up and see what they are missing in being with their child in a healthy productive way?
Most abusers will claim that their exes are trying to control them and ruin their lives after they have finally been left and the consequences begin. They dont like the fact that fathering a child or mothering one is not enough to warrant getting the opportunity to parent these days. You have to abide by certain moral and ethical standards that are set by social services and the law and if you dont, your parental privileges can be put on hold.
I am sure Rlch's ex would be thrilled to read your post, comparing her behavior to the level of his - this is what he wants to believe. This fallacy in his head is what keeps him from being the father Ave needs, not Rlch's actions. What she is doing keeps Ave safe and sane...
You shouldnt return to lurkdom if you dont want to. You should however look closely as we all do when we are in the absolute minority and ask yourself why that might be.
Lilypie - Personal picture