What would your reaction be
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| Tue, 11-13-2007 - 1:14am |
After we had it out, I left it up to her. We have been still dating, but I'm moving cautiously.
I had off from work today so I met her for lunch and we spent a couple of hours together. It was great.
Before she went to bed tonight she called to say good night. She told me about how much fun it was to watch her DD in gymnastics, and how proud of her she is. I reminded her to check on her son to make sure he did his homework (she called to him while we were on the phone and he answered he didn't do it, so she made him) and asked how the dog was. After some small chit chat she told me that "plumber boy" aka ex-bf, had called again to get a massage from her. She tells me that she told him no, that she was fully booked at her home office but he was free to see if there were appointments available at the day spa she works at.
I am not sure what to do with this. She told me he called and I'll assume she did tell him no at home. So, is this a breakthrough in our relationship and is she trying to be very open?
Or is it her telling me that she isn't yet going to shut the door. She is still taking the call and talking to him, telling me she is just trying to be nice.
It bothers the hell out of me that he might book at the day spa and get her to put her hands on his naked body. I'm sure there wouldn't be any hanky panky at the spa, but I'm afraid it might open the door wider. I know that if I were to tell her that it bothers me too much to even think about her hands on him and that I wish she wouldn't even think about it at all and tell him no, not ever, that she will view me as insecure and controlling. I'm thinking that I might tell her that an old GF is coming over for me to rub her down. Wonder what she will think about that.
Since you all know the story, what would your reaction be if you were in my shoes?
Zen

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Do you truly enjoy all this drama?
Seems to me like I'm missing something here, cause this woman has not treated you in any way you deserve and yet you continue to see her.
Stephanie
Zen, I have to say- there's some drama coming from YOUR end, too. Especially from what you said at the end of your post about the whole spa thing, and the retaliation ideas. Retaliation of something that hasn't happened, and you don't even know if it WILL happen or not. But yet you've already thought up some retaliation ideas in your head. Now- whether you would actually DO those ideas or not... it's still drama that you are even thinking of it in such detail. And to hurt her before she hurts you (even the threat of it)... that's just not good practice for building a solid relationship. What good could come of it?
And she hasn't even done anything but answer the ex-bf's phone calls. Everything else is sort of assumed- if there is any double-timing going on... and it's almost like you're EXPECTING it from her. Do you trust her? Is she trustworthy? If you can't trust her (when she is trustworthy) or if you trust her but she ISN'T trustworthy... neither scenario is a good basis for a stable relationship.
You're afraid of saying something to her about the ex-bf's phone calling, or else you might come across as insecure to her? WTF??? You ARE being insecure about it, so why hide it or pretend? Sure, it doesn't look good... but that IS how you are feeling, and what good does it do you, to pretend you're not worried about all this? Be honest with yourself, and be honest with her. Drop the mind games, really. You can't make HER stop any mind games if she is still waffling about who she wants or whatever... but you can stop the testing and assumptions from your end. So if you tell her honestly what you think and feel about her ex-bf and his calling (and her answering)... and she doesn't seem to care to change any of it, or doesn't understand why you might feel hurt or concerned... is that the kind of woman you'd want?
She tells you about the ex-bf calling and you don't even know if it's because she is trying to be open and honest with you (and thinking of those calls as no-big-deal), or if she is simply rubbing your nose in it? How well do you really know her? And again- do you trust her? Can you trust her to protect your well being emotionally? If you can't- then what are you hanging onto?
Is this really the kind of relationship you want? What exactly are you waiting to have happen?
~shrimpy
"A man who wants something will find a way; a man who doesn't will find an excuse." ~Stephen Dolley Jr.
~<
Well Miss Amanda, first, thanks for reading the Lifetime Television version of my life. Hope it was at least entertaining.
One of my best friends has told me many times that I was way too understanding and too accomodating in my marriage. After explaining to me how much I was willing to put up with and backing it up with examples I could see where I maybe can be too tolerant. Issue number one is clearly mine.
You are okay to say WTF. Not the first time. As with most we never post every detail of all the good stuff, and I usually just come here to vent the drama of the moment and make sure I'm clear on what I'm seeing and experiencing. So far so good.
I am at the age where I understand everyone coming into a relationship carries with them baggage from previous life experiences. I have no tolerance for drugs, alcoholics, criminals and verified cheaters. As you can see from reading the threads none of these are issues. Trust is key. I'm not sure where I sit with this right now.
My SO is very immature. She underachieved in high school, never went to college really, was forced to move out on her own when she was 18 (death in the family) and wound up meeting her ex-hubby when she was 19 and moved in with him that year, got married a couple of years later but
Hmmmm....
Well, Zen- I think the problem that a lot of women on this board have, is that there is a shortage of wonderful, patient, caring and loving men such as yourself.
"Her problem to me is immaturity plain and simple, which people can grow out of. Its not really a personality change, so I don't expect her to make a huge change nor do I believe I can change her. But as she gains maturity some of the drama will end, as clearly its almost like dating a young adult at times. If you look at the things she has said/done, that should come through."
No offense, but that is a very contradictory statement. You don't think that you can change her, but you think her maturity level WILL change and the drama will end. So, why are you working on CHANGING her maturity level and you assume the drama will end? You are splitting hairs about changing her maturity level, but NOT changing HER.
I just could not be with someone that needs "fixing". It is very frustrating to read about a decent man who lets himself be walked all over when it is so hard to find someone decent.
Stephanie
Hi
Thanks for the reply Zen. My first question is how old are you two? I'm asking because (no offense) she acts like she's in high school.
I'm sure some people are probably not going to condone me encouraging you in any way, but I used to think that men were just for fun when I was younger. I would date 2 or 3 guys at once and I was never never serious about any one of them. Sometimes I let them get too attached to me but I never ever fell in love with any of them. Then I got to a point in my life where I met a guy I knew I wanted to settle down with but he was in a bad place in his life (had an abusive relationship and was trying to figure out where he wanted to go relationship-wise after her) and he just could not handle my immaturity (he was 41, I was 21) and so we split up.
The next guy I dated I
Well Alison,
Thanks for the compliments. In order to find a guy like me, patient, caring, considerate and tolerant you have to be the same. Everyone gets hung up on the "instant oatmeal" solution to everything. Respect and trust are earned, and that takes time. Even love is not instant.
I can understand not wanting to be taken advantage of and not putting ourselves in self destructive situations, but when you live life with too many absolutes, too many black and white areas you often end up not living life and often living what little life you have very lonely. I have many single male friends who are single because of stupid rules. "I won't date any woman who has kids." "If a chick calls her ex, I'm outta there." "I don't date any woman who won't do this or that, blah blah." I have women friends who are worse. "I only date tall men." "I won't date any guy who doesn't fully understand that my kids ALWAYS come first." "If he doesn't take me out when I want to go out I NEXT him."
With luck there is a PERFECT person out there for all of us. In reality no one is perfect. So you have to be careful but tolerant of that fact. I read somewhere not long ago that the definition of serenity is "not freedom from the storm, but peace within the storm." Relationships are like storms. Relationships are mostly gray areas. The key is learning to live inside the gray.
My GF is not violent and other then the time she was a little tipsy and threw the lawn furniture at me I have never seen her get even close to that mad or do something remotely violent at all. I took it as funny because it was so out of her nature. And again, it was more her frustration with not being able to deal with her own self in a mature way. In Iraq some very, very bad people threw a lot worse at me. I'll forgive her for the incident.
We all grew up and matured. None of us here for the most part are the same as when we were younger. In my case my forty-something SO is acting like a very young twenty-something. She never matured in her previous marriage or relationship, I believe because they were immature as well. I know for sure that her ex-bf is in his forties, never had a relationship that lasted more then a year and according to her was always hanging "with his boys." He has deep prejudices that he cannot keep to himself nor is he remotely tolerant of people who live life differently then him. Nuff said. Her ex-hubby still does things the way he did them 20 years ago and he does everything his mother tells him to. Never grew up either.
So now that my SO is in a different environment she is learning and growing. I'm NOT trying to change her, or change her environment. Being with me IS a change of environment and experiences that I share with her. I'm just being me and she comes along for the ride. She will either mature and grow or she won't. If she remains as immature as she can be at times my patience will eventually run thin.
Yes Amanda, when it comes to certain things she does seem like she is in high school. I'm not making excuses for her. The ex-bf thing comes from her inability to process at this time that it bothers ME and she has yet to mature enough to understand that I'm not jealous but disappointed that she cannot fully understand why it is important to close that door all the way. But as Pacific said, I'll just keep being the GF Whisperer, and giving her the treat when she does "good" and just not reward her for being "bad
Ladies, everyone of us had baggage. Hopefully everyone will find someone who is willing to carry the baggage while we travel and let us unpack or dispose of its contents before they go away themselves. My SO saw something in me when I was 35 lbs heavier and had a really bad haircut and beard. She didn't leave me even though I had to go away to Iraq only two months after meeting her and was away for several months. She was willing to wait for the true me to emerge as I recovered from my very bad marriage and two years of life that was worse then hell on earth. It would be unfair and wrong to not give her the opportunity and time to reveal her true self as well.
This relationship is still fairly new. She is still dealing with divorce issues, discipline of the kids and custody, living on her own for the first time in her life and trying to balance work and a social life. As single moms you all know how hard that is most of the time. She is lucky if she truly has more then a smattering of time to think about me and us and how to make that work amongst everything else. I'm willing to be the one guy who will be understanding, compassionate, tolerant and patient. I won't wait forever but I know that with everything that is going on and at our age it may take a little while before the situation is worth chucking.
Zen
P.S. - Since she has custody of the kids only through Wednesday we are having Thanksgiving later today. I'm making the turkey (a special recipe using a plum glaze to crisp the skin and seal in the juices) as well as made homemade cranberry sauce/relish, a perfect giblet gravy and even made by hand vanilla ice cream for desert a la mode.
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