"he'll get what's coming to him"

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Registered: 03-26-2003
"he'll get what's coming to him"
9
Thu, 04-10-2003 - 1:42pm
Pilates sparks another conversation.

"he'll get what's coming to him"

That seems to be the standard phrase, the question I'd like to know is "how?"

Let's say this guy is a serial date rapist. He's all smooth, gets them alone, then pushes farther than they want to go. When it's all said and done, the woman feel angry, hurt, betrayed... But what is she going to do?

Rape happens *far* too often, all over the place. The mildest form is date rape (mildest, in the sense that others tend to be more brutal, not that it's any nicer to have happen). Most times it happens, they know the guy. It happens all the time on campuses as well. The guys just walk free. The vast majority of women never report it either.

So how will he ever get what's coming to him? Where is the justice? Or does that refer to some after life reward?

Brokk... (who's known *far* too many women who've been raped)

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Perhaps the "what's coming to him" is the hell of having to enduring living in his own mind and life perception.

That was certainly "what I deserved" based on how I used to conduct myself!

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

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Registered: 03-26-2003
I'm a firm believer in karma and not just as an indicator of the vessel of reincarnation. (Not that I necessarily believe in that, but I don't disbelieve in it.)

In the case of my cousin's ex-husband and murderer, he's locked up in a Mexican jail without the hope of a trial. They just shut him up in there three years ago and haven't even started extradition proceedings. That doesn't bring my cousin back, but he can't hurt anyone else either.

I do believe that good deeds are rewarded and that bad are punished in this life, not necessarily just in an afterlife. It helps me let go of some of the things that would drive me crazy otherwise.

Is this a comfort to me more than a universal truth, of course. I think it depends on what you believe.

~Artie...who thinks this is a very thought provoking question.

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Registered: 03-26-2003
The comment spurred a whole series of thoughts I've had over the years. Ranging from the women who suddenly found out she's "the other woman", and this great guy she's been dating and sleeping with is really married with kids... To date rape.

A few years back, I was dating a woman who had just been date raped. It affected her very deeply, and she wasn't sure what to do about it. She knew she didn't want to go through the hassle and difficulty of having him arrested. They had been steady lovers for months, and things were fizzling to an end. One day, they were both laying there naked and he started, and she didn't want to. He wouldn't stop and she just froze because she didn't know what to do. She kept thinking "He's just kidding, this isn't really happening. This isn't real". Then it was over. She left in a hurry, and was totally confused about it. The more she thought about it, the angrier she got. What should she do?

This was a guy she dated and had sex with for *months*. She still saw him amongst her friends on occasion, and she was completely at a loss about what she should do.

She knew the next woman he started dating. What if he does this to that woman? What if he did this to women before her? What if she is just another in a long string? Where is the justice? What should one do?

So Pilates comment really struck a nerve.

Brokk...

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Registered: 03-26-2003
In the conversation that my girlfriend and I had last night, the "what's coming to him" was in the form of jail sentence. I realize that there is no way that he could get in trouble for what he did to me, but sadly enough, I do believe that he will try to do this again. I certainly hope that if he ever does, and if he is successful, then the woman would know what to do if she is raped, and go to the police immediately.

I believe in karma: if you do harm to others, it will come back to haunt you. I believe it in a similar way that NWW does. He will have to live with HIMSELF, and what he has done. Also with that guilt or realization I feel the wrong-doer will attract a retaliation to himself. And in the same way that karma works, maybe not today, tomorrow, or 5 years from now, but in due time, he will get what's coming to him.

All of this may seem like a reassurance to myself that just because there are bad people out there, they still won't get away with inflicting harm on others. I simply feel that everything happens for a reason: any experience has the potential to be life-changing or just another day. Honestly, even if this guy never does anything like this again, if he feels disgust inside everytime he is reminded of that moment, that is enough "what's coming to him" for me. I don't have to live with that!

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Registered: 03-26-2003
So let me ask you a serious question. If the next person he dates is in your circle of people you know, would you say anything to her?

A follow up question: If you don't say anything to her, and he rapes her, how will you feel?

Brokk...

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Registered: 03-26-2003
You know what's so sad it's almost unthinkable? I know so many women who have been raped, molested, or sexually coerced that it's not a surprise to hear it anymore. I myself have never been raped, but I spent *months* in a situation with a man where I said "yes" when I didn't want to, because I knew he'd probably go ahead and try to rape me if I kept saying "no".

I'm with Artie. I believe in karma, not just in future lives/the afterlife, but in THIS life. I believe that somehow, somewhere, the Divine will come back and bite people who do bad things in the a$$, often when they least expect it.

I've actually gotten to witness this personally. I've mentioned that my dh has a friend I don't like, who has been "after him" to leave me, to believe I'm a bad person who controls him, to have an affair with her, etc etc for years. (Not in the good poly way. In the bad "she wants to steal him from me" way.) She has no respect for other people's relationships. I know she's had at least one affair with a married man. But *boy howdy* has her lack of respect and her bad actions in this part of her life come back around on her in big ugly ways. It's been truly amazing to watch. I've never seen someone be the recipient of such obviously well-deserved karmic retribution before. Yikes!! I almost (but not quite) feel sorry for her.

Karma will get 'em in the end. I have to believe that to live in the world.

--fc

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Registered: 03-26-2003
If I knew her, I'd tell her to carry a can of mase to their date... and to make sure that they go to a public place.

If I didn't say anything, and she was raped, I would feel terrible... so I'd be sure to warn her in some way.

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Registered: 03-26-2003
How to start a controversy...but hey, what else am I good for?

I think 'date rape' is a very serious but highly subjective to definition issue.

First, anytime either person doesn't "want to" and is forced - it's rape. Just so we're all aware that I am on that same page and hold that same bottom line. Legal definition - no doubt and that is what is used when dealing with the courts. So let's stick with them and that...as the foundation off which we're jumping, or on which we're building.

And yes, some people can come out of left field...polite, nice, apparently appropriate, reasonable and rational over some period of time and then one day/night/time you're suddenly dealing wtih someone in this one instance that simply will not adhere to your request, no matter how firmly stated and explicit you are.

But...and I go off of experience first hand here with my first husband....violent, controlling, abusive 20 year old and I was a very extremely niave 18. Naturally, he didn't start out violent or controlling or abusive....but it quickly showed itself for what it was and rather than get out while the getting was good, I stayed in till getting out became imperative to survival. And in the course of that relationship, I was "raped" several times. Most with the intent of getting me pregnant again immediately following the birth of my son...so that any leaving of my part was forestall as an idea through that pregnancy and whatever follow up to his original set of violent, controlling abusive behavior and tactics he could come up with.

And these are my opinions..just mine.

If you stay with someone when it is apparent they are mean, violent, nasty, or simply selfish to extreme degrees....even if it is a "just sex" liason - it's the person who's staying in that dynamic while not agreeing with it (even if afraid of leaving it) that is almost guaranteeing at some point what is now offensive or upsetting, is going to become more negatively impactive and brutual at some point.

Technically, yes, the term rape applies. And absolutely no...nobody ever "asks" to be raped with what they wear, or say, or do...technically. But, a person staying in a situation where there in a lack of equality to both person's needs, wants, standards, and priorities...is saying "The benefits at the moment outweigh the risks and I'm willing to take the risks to get the benefits." When date rape, or bankruptcy or financial ruin, or social outcast is the result of that gamble....that simply means the risks weren't assessed properly, or the losses weren't calculated very well.

I remember that first husband looking down on me after the first time he "raped" me and I said that is what he did. He responded with "I knew you'd say that but you're my wife and I have the right to do with you whatever I want." While he was technically, legally, and morally wrong in his thinking....even I at 18, niave, and soon to be on the run with an infant knew what his response was going to be....based on him having beaten me before, and playing Russian Roullette with my temple on a variety of occasions. He'd already proven that he thought that...it just hadn't taken evidence in the sexual realm, as yet.

In the cases of "rape" (not violent rape) where there is time spent with the partner and this is not a first time date or encounter...or let's be specific, if this is not the first time that you've been "alone" with this person......I believe what makes most women reluctant to come forth is that previous behavior and circumstances indicated that this behavior was possible and they refused to heed those warnings for reasons of their own at the time. Not making what this man did "right", by any means....but leaving them to wonder if they contributed to his perception that it was just fine with them based on a previous situations and circumstances (not just sexual). I mean, if you have a history of saying "no" and meaning yes in every regard....when you say no this time, are you really expecting to be believed?

I believe a good review of court cases would show, at least they do in Texas...that "date rape" is taken very seriously as a charge. It's investigated thoroughly and it's prosecuted completely. But in the case where the woman/man willingly and of their own choice, accord, and agreement went out, went with, or has been with this person over a period of time....the courts here do review the pervasive dynamic of the interaction between the two prior to prosecuting for "date rape".

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com





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Registered: 03-26-2003
or he'll end up trying it on someone who is handy with a baseball bat. We can hope can't we?