Methods of Torture

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Methods of Torture
23
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 2:35pm
Ok, I'm trying to be a bigger person so I'm going to post this little ditty in the interest of UOS without complainging even once about this silly new format. (Ok, that was once.)

I'm getting ready to go to school this afternoon and I have to get dressed for a fund raiser I'm going to immediately after. It's a casual atmosphere, but I still want to look great in case any, ahem, available young men are there. Here's the deal. We women pluck and paint and shove ourselves into corseted tops that would make a medieval torturer shudder with delight...not to mention the shoes that should probably be banned as cruel and inhuman punishment, and my big question here is does it matter? Do guys even care? I realize more often than not that most women are dressing to impress themselves or other women and most of the men I know can't tell the difference between my Nikes and my Kenneth Coles.

So, I open the topic to discussion. Enlighten me while I work up the courage to don the 4 inch heeled boots.

~Artie

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 2:42pm
The boots you bought in Chi-chi-chi-cago?????

GG

glammie . . . .

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 2:49pm
No darling, those were just the beginning. These are a very snazzy little pair I got for a steal at none other than JC Penny. I know I was shocked too. They're patches of stitched leather. Sounds weird but they are tres cool. And surprisingly comfortable considering.

I'm reminded of an Ally McBeal episode when a man sued for divorce because he found out his wife took herbal mood enhancers, had plastic surgery, and always wore high heels. He said it was fraud.

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 3:03pm
I guess it depends on the guy... Take Sisy for instance. He never went in for the dressed to kill, spiked heels, poked and pinched and prodded into a size smaller than need be, with tons of makeup, look. A sense of style takes many forms. I don't know what it is, but I know it when I see it.

A lot of guys go bonkers over the "Blonde Bombshell" type like Pamala Anderson. That's fine, but not all of us are subscribers to that. (I don't subscribe to the Coors Light "Twins" ad either.)

I say wear your Nike's or Kenny Coles if one fits your mood. But wear them with style, confidence and good humor.

Sisy


Edited 3/26/2003 4:06:18 PM ET by jeepers_sisyphus

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 3:10pm
Jeepers Sisyphus! You're smart.

That's pretty much what I thought. It just seems funny that I live in a world of my own making where I spend thirty minutes applying makeup so that it looks like I don't have any on. The heels are purely for height. At 5'4" nothing looks right on me without them.

I've dated guys who loved it when I dressed up and guys who wouldn't have noticed if I was wearing a potato sack, so I'm guessing there's a grand spectrum in this as in all things.

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 3:37pm
If you want to attract a real lech, then dress like a sl*t.

My point is, you are baiting the hook... But what are you trying to catch? Different men, require different bait. If you dress up with lots 'O cleavage, long supple legs showing under a short skirt... You *are* going to attract male attention. However, is it the attention you want?

I would think being open, friendly and smiling, while wearing something 'cute', would allow you to pick and choose the attention you get. Rather than just attracting lots of random attention.

Just my two cents...

Brokk... (who also prefers "no makeup")

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 3:39pm
I **AM** gonna complain about this new format...one of the things (and I will think of several more over the next few days I am sure) that was good about the old format was that new "titles" could be assigned to each post...sometimes in the interest of being pithy, but other times it served a useful purpose to let potential readers know what was (or might be) contained therein. Now...one has the read every post in the thread (or at least open and scan every post) in order to make sure you digest the ones your care too.

Having said that...

Title: Like all things...it depends...

I think it (it...the effort women put into dressing, including the occassional torture) depnds on the circumstances. I'm sortta with Sisy...how you carry yourself makes all the difference in the world.

But, if you aren't dressed APPROPRIATELY...then it doesn't matter how cheerful, bright eyed and bushy tailed you are. This might be a factor of age, but YES, I'd expect any woman I was dating to own a tasful formal dress. Just one, mind you, but if I called and said "hey, the company is sending some of its executives to a formal charity cocktail party, and my boss wants me to go instead of him so I can get some 'face time'...I want you to come with me", then any woman **I** am dating better own a nice COCKTAIL dress (no, your interview suit don't count) and a pair of black pumps. Grown up girls have these things.

I will also say that I'd expect any woman I dated to put EFFORT into her appearance any time we were going "out". Now, out doesn't mean "hey, wanna go grab some some chinese food, bring it back here and watch a video?" But "out" does mean "hey, wanna grab a movie and a bite to eat". Now, effort could be a little as a clean white T-Shirt and a pair of snug in all the right places jeans...in fact, I LIKE that look. But it would also include some effort put into the hair, and some makeup if you normally wear that sort of thing (and if you don't, it doesn't matter because I will have already decided if you can carry it off or not, and if we are dating , apparently I think you can). Above and beyond that, while I do think the "T-Shirt and Jeans" thing can be sexy, if I see it ALL THE TIME on you, that is also a problem. Again...effort...like, don't you OWN a skirt? Would it kill you to wear it? I'd like confirmation that you are a female occassionally that doesn't involve tears or sex...

Insofar as a "corset" or "4 inch heels" just for a "movie and dinner" date...well, I think its along the lines of what you said...women inflict that one themselves for their mutual benefit (whatever that is) rather than doing it for or because of men.

But in closing, yes...perhaps because I am 37...or perhaps because I put effort into MY appearance (I never go out without a sport coat / jacket during the "courtship" phase...mama taught me that you dress up for a lady...and I still dress up for MY lady when we have a "date" )...but *I* DO notice, and I DO expect to see some effort put into things.

And BTW...I can tell the differenc between "Kenneth Cole" and "Nike"...or for that matter, "Anne Klein" versus "Dress Barn"....

GoGo....who is a "Cole Hann" and "Ralph Lauren" kinda guy himself...

P.S. Amongest the things that seperate being a "girl" from being a "woman" is that a woman owns at least one:

1) Little black dress that she didn't wear to her prom

2) Suit that cost more than $99 (even on sale) and that your mother wouldn't be embarassed to be seen in (though she probably couldn't fit it)

2) Pair of black pumps that didn't come from Payless

3) Purse that is made out of REAL leather

4) Pair of earrings made out of a REAL precious stone or metal

5) Make up kit, even if only for special occassions, that didn't come from a drug store

6) Perfume that didn't come from a drug store either

If you can't answer affirmatively to each of these questions, and find yourself wondering either A) Why you can't meet any "nice" (ie "employed, with lives, who do something other than play PS2 and mountain bike) guys, or B)why your guy won't take you out anywhere "nice" (ie, doesn't make you stand in line for food, doesn't advertise on TV, and doesn't mail coupons to your home)...well...now you might have a bit more insight...

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 3:43pm
Well, here goes my first attempt at a message in the new format. We'll see how it goes...

I'm with Sisy. It depends on the man. Or the woman, for that matter. I wouldn't know a Kenneth Cole if I fell over it. The last time I tried to shop for makeup, I had what closely resembled a panic attack and left the store empty-handed--the range of choices and lack of knowledge of how the stuff works completely did me in. I wear jeans a lot. I have managed to acquire three men and a woman simultaneously for "relationships" in various forms. It seems my lack of adherence to feminine forms of allure has not hurt me too much, overall.

What do they all think? DH hates it when I wear makeup. He vastly prefers my natural face. But he *does* like me all done up in an evening gown and jewelry.

My couple wouldn't know what to do with me in makeup. She never wears the stuff either. Neither one gives a **** about clothing, etc. on me or anyone else. They are less into it than me, by far.

One of my FWB's nicknames is Vanity. The boy owns something like 8 pairs of black boots. It's all goth/raver/alternative, but he dresses to kill. He is slowly working on getting me to dress better. But then, he's also trying to convince me to wax my new fighting helmet. He seems to have a thing for lost causes. ;-)

I say, if you want to get all dressed up, do it for yourself alone. That way, at least one person will be impressed and pleased.

--fc

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 3:51pm
GoGo, I'm with you on the titles thing. Especially because I could tell who wrote something before I read it. Sometimes I would read something *because* a particular person wrote it, and other times I would skip something because a particular person wrote it. Now I have to at least open it up to even see who wrote it (unless I use the outline).

"P.S. Amongest the things that seperate being a "girl" from being a "woman" is that a woman owns at least one: "

Sign me up for the "girls" then, because I couldn't give a hoot about any of the criteria you list. I guess I'm just more laid back than you GoGo. I probably eat fewer meals that run $100+/person as well. My preferred meals tend to run about $40-$80 for two people.

"2) Pair of black pumps that didn't come from Payless "

Payless, rocks! :-)

"4) Pair of earrings made out of a REAL precious stone or metal "

Nah. I could care less about precious stones or metal, although Rozi owns a ton of the real thing. I've bought a lot for her as well, but just because she loves it so much.

"5) Make up kit, even if only for special occassions, that didn't come from a drug store "

Does holloween makeup count? :-)

"If you can't answer affirmatively to each of these questions, and find yourself wondering either A) Why you can't meet any "nice" (ie "employed, with lives, who do something other than play PS2 and mountain bike) guys, or B)why your guy won't take you out anywhere "nice" (ie, doesn't make you stand in line for food, doesn't advertise on TV, and doesn't mail coupons to your home)...well...now you might have a bit more insight..."

GoGo, you are a particular type of man. One that many women would be proud to be with. However, there are many other types of men out there. Some (like Sisy) would cook up a fabulous meal for his special lady. Others will take them out nice places, even if they don't spend $100/person.

Ladies, you don't need to match a checklist like GoGo's to meet a nice guy. There are plenty of them out there. You just have to know the ones you want to be with, and avoid the ones that don't make the cut.

Brokk...

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 4:24pm
How about this turn of the tables? Would you care if your guy dressed up every day? Loved to wear suits, or slack and nice shirt all the time? Would you care if your guy new WAY more about clothes than you, and could most definatley tell the difference between Kenneth Cole, Cole Haan, Steve Madden, etc, type of shoes? And would you CARE if he dressed that nice or not?

I just had to say that, cuz the guy I'm kinda seeing, well, he just LOVES his designers. He dresses to kill (for himself) and loves his Hugo Boss suits. On the other hand there's me. A person who couldn't look at his shoes and even begin to guess what kind they are. I have about 5 pairs of Sketchers....including a pair of boots that I love. I have clothes from Old Navy to Ralph Lauren....and yes, he can tell. He is getting me to dress, just a tad nicer, maybe a step up from jeans and a t-shirt to khaki's and a nice shirt. But he could careless that I dress how I do. Although, on the other hand, I feel soooooo underdressed cuz if we just HANG OUT.....he's dressed in nice shoes, slacks, sweater (when it was winter), nice suede jacket, etc. And there I am...jeans, boots, t-shirt, and wool coat. lol.

I think certain men like certain things. I'm not into the "girly" things, so no make up for me. I've had WAY too many XBFs try to get me to wear make up, but overall, they all accepted me for the way I am...I dress casual....and I dress for me...not to impress.

However, all the men do love when I get dressied up...cuz as they say...."You clean up good....REAL good". I'd rather hear that on those special occasions versus, oh yeah, you look nice..like you always do. =) But that's just me.

-T (trying to get guy to dress a little more down so we can meet halfway)

p.s. I forgot to add...his method of torture is ironing 5-7 shirts a week and having to do 5 loads of laundry a week.

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 4:36pm
Sigh. I miss titles too.

I guess I'm a girl. Here's what I've got for ya:

1) Little black dress that she didn't wear to her prom

Yeah, but I don't think you'd approve of it. (Hint: it's made of PVC and I wear it to goth clubs.) On the other hand, I own several nice dresses, from the tight-but-classy little number I bought in France to the classic floor-length evening gown the DH bought me for Christmas several years ago.

2) Suit that cost more than $99 (even on sale) and that your mother wouldn't be embarassed to be seen in (though she probably couldn't fit it)

Check. My new one is a pinstripe pants suit I also bought in France. It cost *ahem* rather a lot more than $99, and was made in Paris. I believe it's what is often referred to as a "power suit".

2) Pair of black pumps that didn't come from Payless

I think I have a pair that came from Shoe Pavillion. ;-p

3) Purse that is made out of REAL leather

Does the worn Coach purse my mom got me at a garage sale for $2 count?

4) Pair of earrings made out of a REAL precious stone or metal

Okay, you have hit one of my serious "feminine" weaknesses. I love sparkly things and have an antique jewelry collection I've been building since I was 6. My favorite piece is an Art Nouveau necklace in (very small) diamonds and sapphires, set in gold. I'm a sucker for beautiful and unusual settings. I own some *stunning* earrings in various precious stones, set mostly in gold. I am lucky--when he has the money, DH will buy me jewelry as gifts. :-)

5) Make up kit, even if only for special occassions, that didn't come from a drug store

Not a chance. Do you know how much that crap COSTS???

6) Perfume that didn't come from a drug store either

I wear amber-scented unguents that I buy at bead stores. Somehow I don't think that's exactly what you meant either, but it does smell nicer than "Designer Imposters Body Spray".

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