Punishment
Find a Conversation
| Mon, 12-05-2005 - 7:45pm |
It's so discouraging to read so many posts about how parents "tried everything" - which means punishing the H*LL out of their teenagers - and don't understand why the kids don't behave. Would you behave if you were in an environment of constant threat of punishment? "Do what I say or you'll spend the rest of the day/week/year in your bedroom"?
"Tried Everything" should mean talking to your child (even before they were teenagers), teaching them the way you would like to behave, treating them with respect, rewarding and praising them when they behave responsibly. Punishment is a last resort that should be used sparingly, if at all. "Tried Everything" means preventing problems, setting up successes, teaching new skills (like time management, responsibility for property, etc). If you think punishment accomplishes anything (other than making the punisher feel powerful, and like they've gotten revenge), then look at recidivism rates in prisons, look at how many kids are repeatedly sent to the principal's office or suspended over and over.
Our job as parents is NOT to beat our kids into submission, but to gradually (over 18-21 years) raise responsible, caring, independent adults. How the heck does repeated punishment (or threat of punishment) teach that???
Sure to get flames and that's fine. Not only is this my parenting belief, but it's what I do for a living.
Sue

Pages
You won't get any argument out of me. I totally agree with what you've said. Taking away everything, grounding constantly does not work as far as I can see. My kids are absolutely great--and I grounded DD (now 21) maybe two or three times for a weekend, and DS (18 in April) has NEVER been grounded. Might be hard to believe, but it's the truth. My kids both knew what was expected of them and they also knew as long as they followed the program, good things came their way.
On the other hand, they knew what consequences went with what actions, and it was their choice to make. Both my kids knew if they had one drink and drove a car, it was gone until they are 18, and they both chose (well DS so far) not to drink and drive. When DD got a speeding ticket and DH had to go to court with her (law here in CA for under 18), she not only had to pay the fines out of her earnings, but she also had to pay DH for the day missed of work (and boy did THAT hurt), even though we own the company. We treat these things very matter of factly, and in a loving way, okay you made a mistake, not the first or last mistake you'll make, just have to pay for it (financial or otherwise) and move on with your life. I also don't believe in hard and fast curfews--too much of a power struggle. I always said if you are going to be more than 1/2 hour late, please be considerate and call us so we don't worry. It takes the pressure off.
You won't get any grief from me either. So far, I've never really had to discipline either child much at all. From the time they were little, when we started taking them to restaurants, movie theaters, etc., I talked to them in ADVANCE about what would happen once we got there, what they could expect and how they should behave. I don't remember being disappointed or upset very often. I actually still do this today, especially where DS is concerned as he has a tendency to get very silly and/or whiny when he is bored, or if things aren't going exactly his way and by now, I know all too well what scenarios and situations will set him off.
(I do remember one time 6-7 years ago they made me really angry (I don't even remember what about now) and I sent them to bed ridiculously early. When I checked on them later, I found them both sound asleep in the same bed!)
Yesterday at the mall, DS and I took a load of packages to the car mid-way through our shopping excursion. We followed a mom and three children out to the parking garage. The oldest girl, about 8 or 9, was pushing a toddler in a stroller. I don't know what crime this girl committed but her mom was irate, literally screaming at her "I don't know what in the h**l you think you're doing! You're not getting s**t for Christmas! Get over here right now!" I think if that little girl could have disappeared right then and there, she would have.
I was appalled. DS and I looked at each other and DS muttered "Gee, nice mom". I shudder to think what happened once they got home.
Edited 12/5/2005 10:26 pm ET by julesnalpine
Edited 12/5/2005 10:27 pm ET by julesnalpine
I think you're being a bit presumptuous (and possibly arrogant) to assume that parents who have to discipline their children never bothered to talk to them.
But let the brag-fest continue.
zz
I have to agree, cat momma. In my experience, too many parents pack themselves on the back for the great job they've done with their kids - I would hate to be the one to have to tell them that I've seen some truly lousy examples of parents with absolutely wonderful and responsible children. The fact of the matter is it has a whole lot to do with personality and the teen, who is after all his or her own person. I've also seen families with one or two great children and one "bad apple" so to speak. Same parents, same situation, same rules. Works for most of the kids, but not for one. Some kids are tougher to raise than others, that's a fact. And I hate it when it gets blamed on the parents all the time because they didn't do this or that right. I've seen parents who truly love their kids and do not hit, do not insult or berate, but still get that kind of behaviour back from their kids...
I agree with you that some kids are tougher than others, and that what works for one child won't work for another. BUT I know that severe punishment doesn't work for anyone in the long run. Yes, some kids who have awful parents turn out OK, but as a rule kids don't learn better behavior through a punishment approach.
It was not my intention to blame anyone - I'm sorry if it came across that way - just trying to make the point that repeated, severe punishment is not the way to teach your child/teen how to behave better.
For the most part I have to agree with you.
You know, it is a shame that people seem to be terribly offended by what you are saying. I personally see CLEARLY the benefits of what you are saying, yet putting them to work in my every day life proves to be difficult.......but I don't see the need to 'flame' either.
I know I was pretty harsh in my comments to another poster regarding types of 'dicipline' that I personally thought was too much, but generally speaking, I do believe that dicipline or 'punishment' should be the choice of the parents and what works in their family.
We have a situation in our family that I struggle with EVERY SINGLE DAY, and it interferes with the dicipline of our oldest son. My husband and he are like oil and water...just being in the same room together makes ONE of them angry. My husband is so frustrated with him, he is beginning to DEMAND complete and total compliance of all 'rules' and is imposing harsh punishments and threats and WONDERS why our DS acts so rudely and disrespectfully to him----I've tried over and over and OVER to explain the whole 'pick your battles' concept to him, and his reply is "OH, I should just ALLOW him to speak to me in that tone?????" Well, in a perfect world, no, but in a teen world, if the worst you get is a nasty tone or eye rolling or even door slamming, then DEAL WITH IT is my feeling. If he is getting poor grades, or drinking, or having major issues, then step in with the punishment..........let the little stuff slide. My DH can't seem to do this. He takes each 'disrespectful' moment as a personal slap in the face. I let it roll off my back. DH wants to 'punish' for each 'infraction' and I say forget about it........wait til something major happens. We argue over this frequently.
This morning, my DS wanted to take his cell to school---something we don't normally allow. He is pushing the limits of wanting to take it every day---to coordinate w/ me for after school things...........some times he has a legit point, most times he does not. Today, however, my DH is FURIOUS that he is asking AGAIN today to take the phone. But my youngest is sick, I may be available to pick up the oldest immediatly after school depending on when we are done at the DR for my youngest. I may have to wait til 45 min after school is out. I just don't know.....so he HAS a legit reason to take his phone....and DH is so angry that he's 'getting his way'.....to me, who the heck cares....we need to be able to communicate and the phone is the easiest........so what last year the 'rule' was he could NEVER have his phone at school. He's in high school now, my work schedule has changed since last year...........I think LET IT GO......my DH wants to 'take the phone away' for every little thing....
So my point with this whole rant is that WITHIN our own family we have issues and differences of opinion.........and to be honest.......the let it slide attitude gets further with my DS than my husbands demand for compliance all the time. My DH doesn't understand why my DS doesn't want to talk to him, but to me.....it's because I give him a voice, I let him screw up and let him know it's ok and he's still loved.......but it sure causes problems in the family............any suggestions?
MY DH sees the benefits of positive 'dicipline' but can't seem to do it in the throes of an 'incident'......
So I know my DH isn't a bad parent, or an ogre.......he's a guy with great intentions, and his 'demands' truly aren't unreasonable......unless you are a 15 year old boy!! haha. Just because his choices of harsh punishment are different than mine, doesn't mean either one is really 'wrong'.........my way just seems to have a better end result with my DS---but my DH just can't make himself let stuff slide..............
Oh well-----good luck to all of you---dicipline should be individual (abuse is another story)............
Shels
Pages