Can't Take It Anymore!!*%$^*@#&*!!!
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| Thu, 12-22-2005 - 2:47pm |
I don't know where to turn. I know this will sound minor to those with BIG problems with their teens, but everything is relative.
Some recent history:
I posted last month that my 16yo DD was caught shoplifting with her friends while on a weekend school trip. She had to be picked up from the event (a 2 hour each way trip for us), she was suspended from school for 3 days, we grounded her, we had to pay a $200 fine, she is not permitted to attend any school trips for the remainder of the year and of course, we lost the $160 paid for the trip. That's over.
Two weeks ago, I left DD and her two friends (aka "partners in crime") home for an hour and they got into the liquor cabinet. They poured vodka into water bottles. They hadn't had any yet, but obviously the intention was there. I sent the girls home and grounded DD again.
These two things were


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I personally don't like the whole grounding idea. I like setting limits with rewards better. Rather than simply 'grounding' her, which to me sounds so general that it doesn't target a desired outcome, how about placing limits on her social life? For instance, her cell, computer, phone, and outing time is limited until next marking period. It doesn't need to be severe limits, just enough for her to feel the pinch. When she complains, you can remind her it's only temporary until her grades creep back up to where they were and you're sure she's working to her potential.
We did this with my social 18dd and it worked. She had to learn how to balance her social life with her responsibilities.
I'm not sure I understand. Your suggestion is to limit her social life, cell, computer or phone use. When I 'ground' her, I am limiting her social life. Severe limits such as NO use of something or NO social life until a certain date works better for me than randomly limiting things as they crop up.
While I agree with you in that it may be better to reward good behaviour, I feel that that is ALL I do. My kids have it GOOD. I don't know how I could possibly reward good behaviour other than paying for it - which I won't do!! So as I see it, the only way to punish is to set a severe limit. She is a joy to be around when she is 'grounded' - there are no social pressures for her to deal with. However, that doesn't seem to be working in the long run!
Just like everyone else, I speak from my own experience. My experience has been that when I grounded it never got the desired reaction - that being better behavior. But, when I limit, not entirely take away privileges, I do get the desired change in behavior (most of the time). IOW, I try to be fair and reasonable, if that fails, well then, I of course would resort to extreme limits. But that has been the exception rather than the rule. We talk - A LOT! My H calls it the "Lecture Series". They roll thier eyes at him - lol.
For instance, by being fair and reasonable, I allow my dd some of her prior privileges such as access to the computer, her cell, and the telephone, as well as time out with her friends. However, by limiting, she is only allowed out say, on Friday and Saturday, but no weekdays, and with an earlier curfew. She is only allowed use of her cell phone while she is out, not when she is in school or at home. She is only allowed access to the phone between 6 and 8 PM. Get the idea? By doing this, at least with my now 18dd, she has learned how to better manage her time and her privileges; she has learned how to prioritize her schedule and balance her social life and her school career as well as a part time job. It took almost a full 2 years for her to understand and 'get it', but it's paid off. She is very responsible and has learned to tell her friends "No" to invitations when she knows she has more important obligations such as studying or her job. She still does chores for me, she contributes to her car insurance and cell bill. This didn't happen overnight.
IMO, when they are younger (elementary/preteen) grounding can be effective as a means of controlling them. However, once they reach about 16 or so, you need to allow them the space to make more mistakes, fail once in a while, to learn how to be more responsible for themselves. In less than an year, my 18dd will be off to college with no one around to micro manage her and I have the confidence that she will do well. We are still training my 16dd, she has lots to learn, but she's getting there. She was dealt a crappy deal being born with disorders that make her extremely impulsive, but she's definitely matured in this past year and she's getting there. Slowly. It's definitely a trial in patience, for all of us.
My point about grounding in general is borne out of what I've heard other parents say....when they ground thier teens, the kid loses ALL thier privileges and can't leave the house. Personally, I only agree with that kind of grounding if the kid's life is in danger, such as drug related or sexually promiscuous behavior. However, even under those circumstances, as a parent, you still need to TEACH your teen how to become more responsible for herself and how can she/he learn that locked up inside with no communication to the outside world? And when I mentioned rewarding better behavior, it needn't be a monetary reward, but an earned privilege or time spent doing something with a parent that dd likes to do, such as lunch out, shopping, a movie, etc., or having a friend sleep over. Simple small things. She has to get to the point where she realizes that all these privileges she enjoys are privileges and not rights. Karezz, it's not easy changing tactics but it may be just the thing to get your dd in line. I wish you the best of luck.
I agree. I've always felt grounding seems to enforce "doing time" without much learning taking place.
Reading some of her friends Xanga entries seems to reinforce this ( i.e. "4 days left of my grounding, then I can go to Melissa's party and REALLY let loose.")
At 16, they need to buy in to whatever consequence takes place, not necessarily agree.
I think it's great you set up conferences with her to attend. Perhaps you can concentrate on what behaviours have changed since the grade slip and have her come up with possible solutions. They need to be concrete. For example, "I'll study more" is useless. "I'll study 2 hours Sunday through Thursday at the kitchen table where you can see me." is getting somewhere. You may be suprised what they come up with, with some guidance as far as what constitutes an actual definable committment.
For me, restrictions seem to work better with applicable cause and effect. For drinking, taking away the computer and cell phone wouldn't work. Not allowing any unsupervised socialization WOULD work. I wouldn't give a time limit, rather, priviledges are returned when I'm reasonably convinced they can make safe decisions when an adult is not around. Whining, pouting and anger do not convince me.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
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One other quick thought for whatever it's worth..
I've observed when kids are like the above when restricted, they may be experiencing more than they can handle with certain issues, friends, peers, etc. Given the recent shoplifting and drinking, it's something at least worth considering. It's not easy, but hopefully your DD can open up a bit about that.
Yeah I was wondering that too....could the right strategy be to steer her away from her current set of "friends"? Is it that she is lacking good influences in her life? Of course you can't always blame it all on the other kids (ie she's been a willing participant) but if she had friends who had similar interests but were less inclined to do really stupid things like drinking and shoplifting, would she be better off?
A friend of mine who had a very social daughter apt to get into alot of dramas and issues decided that her daughter's "punishment" would be to force her to join a church youth group. There she met other kids who were good kids and knew how to have fun without acting out. She's really enjoying it and even claims she's met some really "cool" people there. Imagine that! "Cool" kids who don't get arrested !!!
There may be some grain of an idea for you there ie if she's very social, try to gear her energies towards something positive. And as for her marks remind her that if she wants to go away to attend a decent college (and this will appeal to her social instincts) she has to get her marks up. I mean at some point, the motivation has got to come from within.
I see your point and I like it on two levels. First, it makes sense. Second, we haven't really tried discipline from this perspective. I took your advice and have already started to apply it.
DD came home today and I told her about her progress report and that I have set up conferences. She called me a 'psycho' - 'this is high school and parents don't have conferences!!". Regardless, I am sticking to it. Daddioe is right, a conference with DD and a teacher will permit us to set goals and make her accountable for those goals going forward.
I told DD that I was tired of yelling and punishing and that we were going to try a different approach. As heartsandroses suggested, her 'social' activities will be limited and she has to earn privileges. Hopefully a change in our discipline approach will also benefit 11yo Dd who is already starting to abuse computer privileges. I may need a little help with this - the concept is a little foreign to me.
I like to see things in black and white. How does this sound? Can you help me fill in the blanks?
School is the number 1, primary goal.
Must be
Actually, the girls she is hanging out with are really good girls. I like them and their families. There are other girls that I am happy she is not involved with. The three of them just happened to make a few bad choices all at once.
I am thinking also that she has too much idle time. Yes, she should be studying, but that shouldn't be taking up ALL of her time. She has a seasonal job (March - October), but maybe a job would be a good use of time.
Well..here's my fill-ins. Of course, all kids are different and respond in different ways.
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Absolutely
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My DD would hate a "nice" mandate. She needs to be able to express a crappy day, as long as it's respectful. Helpful is good, specific chores and responsibilities are better.
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Yelling gets me absolutely nowhere. I calmly explain that I don't feel like doing anything at all for you when to speak to me like that.
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Is the computer visible? Do you know what she's doing on-line? I'm not a fan of teen blogs, myspace, Xanga, etc. I let DD know NOTHING on the computer is private.
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DD's crowd does homework after school. There really isn't anything going on until the weekends. After school "hangin out" when adults are at work is trouble. Personally, I wouldn't allow it. Having them at your place when you're home should be encouraged. You can get to know them and what they're doing.
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Only if she's participating.
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Check her phone bill for the times. If she's abusing this, take the phone. I'd drop the text message feature. What a waste of time, for an extra charge to boot! The only reason they want this is to be able to use it in school. Don't believe any other cockamamie story.
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Once again, cause and effect. They need some degree of control in their lives, and we need to pick our battles. I wouldn't make an issue unless she can't get going in the morning without your intervention and nagging. (Make sure the internet is disabled on the laptop. That's a different story)
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See above
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This is a tough one. For boys at that age, the only reason to have a sleepover is for wee hours screwing around. I've learned on this board, that girls are often different when it comes to sleepovers. I'd check parents being home (you'll no doubt get plenty of flack for this one. Stick to your guns).
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Thats fairly general. The main points are, supervision and honesty. Your DD has some trust to regain. Personally, I'd take the eye rolls, sighs, and a bit of mouth, for going a bit slow in this area.
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Oh no..believe it! My teens have all been able to make me constantly second guess myself. It's been a roller coaster, but usually fun. That's just my 2 cents. You'll probably get many varied responses and of course their all right. You say you're looking for black and white. That might be a problem..lol
Interesting thread.
IMHO, when parenting teens, it's more about "teaching" than it is about "parental control." It won't be too many years and our teens will be out the door, be it to college, to the military, or simply to a job and apartment of their own. They need to learn to make good decisions before they are that far out of the parental radar or they will make some VERY big bad ones when they finally do get that level of freedom.
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