What's a Lie?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-07-2005
What's a Lie?
23
Fri, 12-23-2005 - 9:32pm

Today I had an interesting conversation with a woman, nice lady, great mom... and that's why I am so blown away by what she told me. She's got a good kid, all honor roll, doesn't drink, no drugs, etc. We'll call him D.

Several weeks ago when I was having such problems with my DS-16 (B), B and I missed each other after Saturday school and they saw him walking down the road right around the time I was making my second trip to school. They picked him up and took him to their house.

I thought DS had run away and I didn't immediately call her house because I know for a fact that she would call me if he had of run away and shown up there. A couple of hours later I did finally call and D answered the phone. I asked if he'd seen B and he says "Yes, we saw him about 2:30 walking down by the convenience store." That's it. Meanwhile, B is standing right there at their house!

Finally, after another hour and a half of driving around looking for B and making more phone calls from pay phones, DH and I spot him with D in the convenience store parking lot. I finally find out that B was at D's house the whole time I was out looking for B. D also told me that what he said was not a lie.

I was livid. I told him he'd better not ever lie to me again and then I left for the grocery store, where I see his mother in the parking lot. Still unsure that I had the whole story, I asked her about it. And I told her about my phone call and that D had lied to me.

Fast forward several weeks (5 or 6?) to today. I talked to her for the first time since then and she told me that she has been still kinda upset with me for calling D a liar and that I was the first person to ever tell her that D had told a lie. (I'm sure that's the truth, he usually is a good kid) She then tells me that D didn't lie to me, that he made a bad choice and that she had also told him that.

I told her it was still a lie, albeit a lie of omission, but a lie nevertheless.

Is it just me? Do you consider that a lie? What would you tell your child if he/she had done that?

zz

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-15-2004
Fri, 12-23-2005 - 11:20pm
I'm trying to think of a way this is technically a lie, except, I dont think it is. That doesn't make what he did any better. Taking things extremely literally, as he did, is usually only done in an attempt to, for whatever reason, deter you from the answer you were looking for. He KNEW your question, "have you seen B?" Also entailed, "Do you know where B is right now?" and "When was the last time you saw B?". That's the information given when asked that type of question. It's the type of thing everyone knows. He decided to use a technicality to decieve you. It's not lieing, but it is the clever kid's way of telling a lie.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2004
Sat, 12-24-2005 - 12:21am

payasa, I just KNEW you are planning on becoming a trial lawyer... :-)

Be careful how you question on direct. It may come back to haunt you on cross...

D clearly was aware of the intent of the question. Yes, he did not lie, but he is guilty of deceit. Which is worse? a bold faced lie, or a sneaky, clever, underhanded technicality. (rhetorical question)...

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-07-2005
Sat, 12-24-2005 - 7:47am

Thanks Korie and Daddio,

It's funny that I posted this on Parenting Debates board and the lawyer thing was the first sentence of the first post there, too!! Ha!

And I didn't find Daddio's last question to be rhetorical.... it's really made me think. I think I'd rather be given a bold-faced lie than to be cleverly outwitted! At least then I wouldn't have to play a semantics game with someone, KWIM?

zz

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2005
Sat, 12-24-2005 - 8:17am

This sort of thing usually results in my having a talk the kid-du-jour about trust.

It boils down to "If I can't trust you, you can't have unsupervised time and this sort of behavior doesn't engender trust - it is on *you* to communicate fully and honestly with me when we speak - if you won't, if you turn this into some sort of 'what can I get away with' game, you can count on far less freedom than you have now".

So far, it's worked pretty well.

ILR

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-14-2000
Sat, 12-24-2005 - 11:06am
My first reaction was that D definitly lied by omission but after reading the other posts I can see where it might not have been TECHNICALLY a lie but it was definitely deceit, which - as daddioe pointed out - is oftentimes worse.
Pam
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-07-2005
Sat, 12-24-2005 - 11:41am

So you don't think he lied by omission? That technically he didn't lie?

Just curious,
zz

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Sat, 12-24-2005 - 11:49am

yes it is a lie - its not a 'lie by ommission' --- its a lie. the only thing that i can think of is that either your son MADE him tell this lie, OR that D was not aware of the whole situation, i.e., he didn't know that you were frantic with worry.


iVillage Member
Registered: 09-07-2005
Sat, 12-24-2005 - 11:53am

Added to say that I no longer intend to ask D any question at all. What would be the point? And what if I don't get the question right next time?

And do you feel she was right in being upset with me for telling her her son lied to me?

I'm done with them, and DS will be also. I don't care if he's a great honor roll student, blah, blah, blah.

zz

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-07-2005
Sat, 12-24-2005 - 11:57am

Actually, the combined story I got from B and from D's mother was that B was in the bathroom and that D was talking to his girlfriend on the phone when I called. I don't know what that has to do with anything, can't imagine why they even told me that cause I don't care.

Why is it not a lie by omission?

zz

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-14-2000
Sat, 12-24-2005 - 12:15pm
I guess I didn't state earlier response very well.
Pam

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