ranting, venting and seeking advice

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2005
ranting, venting and seeking advice
11
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 9:09am

Grrr. Snarl....

I have had it with the two little snots in our carpool and I am not sure what to do at this point. Some background: Dd attends a small, Catholic school in a nearby city. Dd started there in the 6th grade (school is pre-K through 12. I told her I would drive her the first year and we would look into the bus for 7th grade. I lucked into a carpool for 7th and 8th grades - a perfect situation where the mom worked about a block away from the school on a 4-day work week. She drove 3.5 days and I took her dd on her day off. The other days, I had my dd to myself for the commute. Sadly, her dd decided to attend the local public school for high school. Enter C & A who attended the local Catholic K-8 school and chose this school for HIgh School. We decided to form a carpool (the bus is $600 and the girls would be on it for an hour each way ... plus dd is in the show choir and practices an hour before school three days a week, so the bus is not a great option for us).

Over the summer, Dd invited both C & A together and separately to our home to swim, for sleepovers, for her birthday party and to a few outings. They seemd toget along, but C&A never invited dd anywhere. The carpool was fine for awhile, the girls would sing along witht he radio, talk and joke around. As time went on, C&A became more and more "inside-ry", they would talk about the parties they attended, the sleepovers - things that excluded dd. She would occasionally change the subject and join in.

Then A decided she no longer liked dd. Please understand, I am not saying my child is completely blameless in this. She may have - and probably did - say something about A that got back to her, but it so - it was a long time ago.

I drive three mornigns a week & the pattern goes like this. We pick up A. She is never, and I mean NEVER ready. Dd goes to the door and we wait. A gets in the car and we both greet her. Dd usually asks her how her weekend was, or asks some open ended question to which she receives a monosyllabic reply. Then we play the seatbelt game. A does not buckle until a). I ask her to or b). I turn around and watch her until she does. (this isn't relevant to dd's story, but it plain ticks me off)

A then either listens to her iPod or sits there in complete silence for the 15 minutes it takes to get to C's house. C is sometimes ready, but not always. She gets in the car, we greet her. She is (or was until recently) a little more friendly and we might exchange a few pleasantries. Then A and C happily chatter - with each other - for the rest of the 1/2 hour drive. A, who was dead silent all the way to C's house is suddenly a chatterbox. They talk, laugh and tell stories. If dd tries to join in ... they might acknowledge her with a word, grunt or giggle but they return to their two way convo.

As of today, my patience is completely exhausted. They were chattering as usual, Dd turned around at one point (they were talking about Rent) and said, "I loved that movie - I'll bring the Cd on Friday (my next time to drive). They giggled and kept talking.

Later, she turned around again and was telling them about a song that two uppperclassmen did as a duet at the variety show (the song was on the radio) ... she was just trying to make conversation and - again - they completely ignored her.

I started shaking my head (immature, I know), but I have had it with their nasty nonesense.

I know I've shared with you that Dd has had a difficult time with low self-esteem this year. This sure isn't helping. When she went to counseling last week, I was in with her for a while and she mentioned the car situation and said "What you don't see, mom, is what goes on when you're NOT driving. It's even worse>"

I have talked to Cs mom (she can't stand A)and, according to dd, Cs mom has tried to get all the girls talking when she drives but it rarely works.

Ok. I know I cannot do anything about C & A's obnoxious behavior. I've told my dd all along to continue to be pleasant (as in always greeting them when they get in the car) and I really thought this would simply run it's course.

We talked with her counselor about arranging a meeting with the moms and the daughters just to get it out, but I'm not sure this would be the best thing for Dd.

I can barely be civil to these girls, but I know I have to suck it up and do exactly that. At least I have 24 hours to cool off before I have to see them again.

This is much too long. Thank you to anyone who stayed awake to this point. I would appreciate any advice you might have.
Thanks,
jt

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-14-2000
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 9:20am
Aww jt - I don't have any advice.
Pam
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-22-2003
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 11:19am

Hi jt ... sorry you're going through this! We had a carpool go bad last year, but fortunately, the drive was only 10-15 minutes at most and only one other girl involved, and that girl was (probably still is!) a moody, snotty you-know-what. (I still can't believe DD considered her a friend. This girl was also one of the primary players in the big bust-up last year.) Her mom drove in the am, and the girl sat in front and stared straight ahead out the windshield when DD got into the car; her mom was the only one that greeted DD in the morning. They drove to school in total silence, save for the radio.

I picked up after school and DD would always sit in the back so she could visit with her 'friend'. I usually had the radio on and DD, who loves to sing, who get in the car and start singing along. This really annoyed the other girl for whatever reason, and she typically made smart a** remarks to DD about her singing and/or the music. She once even told DD to "just shut up!" I came THIS close to turning around and smacking that little brat! That's just something our family NEVER says!

Anyway, after a couple months of this, DD was having such a hard time dealing with the strained atmosphere in the car and the other girls' attitude that she sat in the kitchen and just BAWLED. DD rarely ever cries (unlike her mother!) so when she does, we know its really bad.

So DH took it upon himself to deal with the situation, much to my surprise. (Usually, he leaves this stuff to me to deal with.) He called the other mom and said he would start driving DD to school in the morning. I don't recall that he offered much of an explanation why not, and somehow, he worked it in that she would have to find a ride home for her own DD too. I think he said something about the carpool just not working out for us. So the mom called me the next day to 'talk', we both ackowledged that the girls were not getting along, mom told me of all the ways my DD had hurt her DD's feelings, blah, blah, blah. I just made those 'yeah, I know' noises and said not one word against her DD. Just let her vent, said goodbye and it was all over.

Now DD is also at a high school that is an hour away and there ARE a couple girls in the area that formed a carpool and we were not included or asked to participate for reasons I know not. One of the girls is one of DD's close friends so I am doubly confused about that. I admit I felt pretty slighted about it at first. So DH drives her to and from school everyday. By herself. No other kids in the car. Fortunately, his office is not terribly far away from the school, but it is rather inconvenient for him, and now DD stays on campus until after 5:00 just about every day until he comes to pick her up.

I think DD felt a little slighted at first too. But now, she says she really doesn't mind. She has that hour in the morning to go back to sleep, read, finish up homework or whatever and I happen to like that she's spending time with her dad. And she really prefers staying at school late and hanging around with her friends, watching sports practice, doing whatever, as opposed to rushing out to meet her carpool right at 2:00. She says so many of her friends complain about their carpools that she's glad she doesn't have one.

Oh my gosh ... this is getting really long!

I guess what I'm trying to say (and not very well) is that your DD is no doubt feeling the strain and stress of the carpool situation and if she's already struggling with self-esteem, I'd bag out of the carpool as soon as I could. Our county has a ride-match program -- perhaps yours does too? Our DD's school even publishes a directory with every students name, address and phone number. Maybe you could ask the school if there are any other students in your area and look into another ride-sharing situation. You mentioned a bus (DD's school transportation was $1900 plus we'd have to drive her 20 minutes to the pick up location! We passed on that!) can your DD ride the bus 3 days and you pick her up 2?

I've made that 2-hour roundtrip drive on days DH works late or is out of town, and also when DD has ortho appt, so I KNOW what a royal pain in the rear it is. But if possible, for the sake of your DD, I'd give the other moms' notice (2 weeks or whatever you decided) and focus on just your DD. It is my opinion that in situations like this, we have to do what is best for OUR children or OUR families.

Sorry so long .... :-)

Avatar for mily12
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 11:31am

AAARRRGGGHHH!!! My blood is just boiling. I feel badly for your DD. Those girls are just plain rude. There is no other explanation for their behavior. Even if, for example, they don't like your DD (I'm not implying that that is the case), they should, at least, have the courtesy to talk with her.

I think I would do one of two things. If it wouldn't upset my child too much, I'd tell the girls myself that they should respond when spoken to and that it is rude to exclude others. If that didn't work, I'd get out of the carpooling and drive my child alone. Is either a possibility for you?

It's a delicate situation, I know, but keep in mind that you have to do what is best for your child. Too bad for the others if it's inconvenient for them if you drop out of the carpool. That's their problem, not yours. You've already done your best. They are the ones who have forced your hand.

Good luck and please tell your DD that it is not her fault. Those girls are just nasty, rude individuals who have a lot to learn.

Hugs,

Mily

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-26-2005
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 11:36am
First of all, I don't post a lot, mostly lurk, but I felt a need to respond to this one. I am almost in tears as my DD has the same issue.. almost exactly. The behavior you are seeing is completely normal for this age. We, as moms, don't like it but unfortunately there are these means girls out there. My daughter is just like your daughter. We have had some self esteem issues this year, and she is carpooling with the girl next door. The other girl just recently moved in and we were so excited that my DD would have a new friend. Not so much. The other girl has already started rumors about my daughter and is very moody. Trust me.. I know my DD is not all perfect.. she has probably done some of this as well. But it kills me to see her treated this way. I LOVE the girls mother so I haven't said a word to her about it. We try to stay out of it and let the girls deal on their own. Thank goodness they are the only 2 riding in the car so there isn't the 3rd wheel syndrome.
If you think this is hurting her self esteem more, you should try to find alternate transportation. Girls seem to mature more by 9th grade.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2005
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 12:13pm

OK, guys - I am sitting here, in tears, over your responses. I have been telling myself (and my dd) for the past three months that we have to stay on the high road with this situation. I felt that I could not let the other moms down by backing out. Nor did I want dd to appear to be running away from these girls. Each one of you very kindly (thank you) pointed out the simple truth to me: I can back out. And I plan on doing it - unless dd strenously objects, which I doubt.

There is no reason to allow my dd to be held hostage by A and C's bad behavior. It is very likely that both of them will end up on the bus as a result of this and, you know what? I'm not going to make it my problem.

We've always tried to teach dd to live by the simple rule of "do the right thing" - and she tries mightily. It's time to do the right thing for her.

Thanks for your support. You are all so right. I'll let you know what transpires.

jt

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-22-2003
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 12:27pm

Sending some hugs your way ... I know you'll feel terrible, guilty, etc., when you finally approach those other moms. Try not to!

One thing I forgot to mention in my post (if you can believe that, as long as it was!) is that we didnt' give DD the choice of staying or going with the carpool. We made the decision for her and you know what? ... she was geniunely relieved.

Good luck and please let us know how it all goes!

Julie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 12:41pm

A little late with my response, but I say WHO NEEDS THIS? We were in a similar situation a really long time ago, and it was simply that the other two girls had been lifelong friends, and my DD was the new girl, so she was left out. Same deal, three girls in a carpool. We simply bowed out of the carpool and found another. I don't remember what I told the other two moms.

However, in your case, I wouldn't feel bad at all telling C's mom that you simply can't allow your DD to remain in a situation that is so detrimental to her. And I would be completely honest with A's mom and tell her that A and C do not appear to ever want to include your DD, you know that's how teenage girls work, but your DD does not need to be in a situation like this twice a day, and frankly, you are really tired of A's rude behavior. If a mom never knows what their child is doing while they are with other people, then how can they help their child learn better manners, etc.? A is living in her own little clique-girl world, and not realizing the impact not having the carpool will have on her family.

Good luck and lots of hugs. It's hard enough being a teenage girl without all this CRAP along with it. If you can get rid of some of the bad stuff, your DD will be more at peace.

Laura

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-29-2004
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 12:50pm

As someone whose daughter went thru similar "nasty girl" problems:

(1) Do not get the "girls" and the "moms" together. An encounter would only work with the girls and a supportive teacher/priest/nun... during which the girls are given the opportunity to speak,one-by-one, about how they feel. Moms there will hamper the situation. Remember, the girls have learnt their rude behaviour from their mothers. The first girl most likely has a mother that will "smile" in agreement but, at home, is catty and supportive of her daughter's behaviour. Too many women have not gone past the "teenage girl stage of behaviour". Children learn by example.

Be a good example for your daughter and call up the first mother and tell her that you can no longer drive her daughter back & forth from school. Not only is this "little princess" being nasty to your daughter but her behaviour is disrespectiveful and rude to you. She is never ready when you pick her up. She doesn't listen to you in the car. Don't start an argument. Don't waste your breathe. Don't fall for the "but how am I going to get my child to school ploy". That's her problem! Since you are responsible for the child's safety when she is in your car, you can no longer take that responsibilty since the child WILL NOT Listen to you. You have given her apply time to reform her behaviour. Believe me, if you had an acident & that child was not wearing her seat-belt, quess who they would blame? Make it very clear that it is no longer convenient and DON'T BRING UP THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE GIRLS. That is the worst thing you can do. Mothers can get rather catty when it comes to their daughters.

Remember when I said, be an example for your daughter. Stand up for your rights! If this child will not listen, DON'T DRIVE HER.

Does the first mother contribute to the driving? You said you are driving 3.5 days a week.
That only leaves 1.5 days... who else is doing the driving?

2- Nothing, and I repeat, NOTHING you can do will make these kids like each other.
Please believe me. I know it is hard. The best thing to do now is to not put your daughter in the situation where these girls can "work their bile". As I have told my kids, there are people who will not "like you" just as there will be people you don't like. It is not based on reason,just "feelings" and "emotions". The point is not to be nasty and mean but to realise that the "feelings" and "emotions" are not "truths". In other words,don't waste your time with these girls. They are not "good friend" material for your daughter but there are lots of kids that are.

3-The second girl sounds like a "follower",controlled by the first girl. Call her mother up and tell her that it is no longer convenient that you drive her daughter back & forth to school. Don't get into details. Be "above" all the catty behaviour. Since this mother sounds "better" then the first, you can give her time to make alternative arrangements,on the days you are driving. But don't allow her to drive your daughter. The other girl will be in the car and it will be worse for your daughter.

4- Perhaps there are other kids in your area,which are involved in the same extra-curiculum activities as your daughter, who would like to "car pool" with your daughter. Ask around. Call a few of the parents.

The point is DON'T GET INTO ANY DISCUSSION AS TO WHY YOU NO LONGER ARE DRIVING THOSE GIRLS. Just say something like it is "no longer convenient". Getting in the middle of the "girls" will only make it worse for your daughter and,well, nothing will be gained by it.
Just say NO.

Good luck mom and give your DD a hug for me. I know how nasty girls can be.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 1:42pm

quick reply because i only have a few minutes.


first - hugs to you and hugs to your dd. its not easy to feel this way - and its not like your dd is just "Feeling" left out - she actually is being treated that way.


here are two thoughts:


1. you might want to sit down with the other mothers and work out a 'workable' solution for the getting out on time. it is the other parents' responsibility to make sure that their kids are on time and not keep the driver waiting (thi may sound judgemental, but it seems to be indicative of the home atmosphere. i know that teens can be horrible but this is BASIC manners ). YOU shouldn't have to wait and your DD shouldn't have to go to the door. so - this is something that needs to be dealt with on the 'drivers' level


2. as for the kids being disgusting - there is not much you can do about it. i know its painful to see your child getting hurt and feeling sad - but there is not much you can do here. hopefully your dd will work this out for herself and stop TRYING to be friends. you know - girls can be this way - sometimes they just go from friends to foe in an instant for the silliest reasons. and then - it can sometimes change back in a snap.


i don't think that there is any reason to have a session with the girls and the parents - i think it would just make things worse.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 1:57pm

{Remember, the girls have learnt their rude behaviour from their mothers. The first girl most likely has a mother that will "smile" in agreement but, at home, is catty and supportive of her daughter's behaviour. Too many women have not gone past the "teenage girl stage of behaviour". Children learn by example.}

I'm sorry, but this kind of blanket statement drives be crazy. Why would you assume that the girls have learned this behaviour from their mothers? IMHO it's unfair when parents automatically blame the bad behaviour of a teen on something that "has been taught in the home". For the record, teens learn alot of this bad behaviour from each other. They happen to be at a rebellious period in their lives, when they question everything they were brought up to believe. Some teens do this louder than others. And for the record, I agree "chidren" learn by example (although I would have to disagree it's just the parent's example) but "teens" are a whole different animal, especially teenage girls...

However, I do agree with you that the mother should be told about her teen's bad behaviour. I know I would want to know.

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