Calling All Moms -What Would You Do?
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| Fri, 01-06-2006 - 11:02pm |
To all you moms who have dd's who openly communicate, and who believe in parenting as "teaching" as opposed to "punishing" - how did I do, and what would you do?
Dd's only friend outside of school, H. has gone from bad to worse - those who have seen me post in the past know the background. Recently H. has threatened suicide, quit school and is being "homeschooled" (not really), and apparently wants to have a baby (she is 13). I have learned some of this through spying, some of it from her parents who are desperate to get control of their dd. I recommended dd's therapist, which may have been a mistake, but I wanted H. to get help and like dd, she wouldn't talk to most therapists. This therapist is especially skilled with getting teens to open up. I knew H. was feeling suicidal and, as I said, parents were desperate. They were thinking of putting her in the same group therapy with dd, but I expressed to the therapist that I did not want this. Now that H. has dropped out of the school where dd goes, I am optimistic that eventually dd will make new friends out of necessity and they will grow apart.
Anyway, dd just cannot let go of this friend - and I've not forbidden the friendship, as I don't want my dd to stop talking to me completely. But tonight, dd wanted to spend the night at H.'s, and I didn't allow it. Instead H. is spending the night with us. Dd of course always wants to know why, why. I told her my reasons wouldn't be good enough for her anyway. In the end, I told her that H. is a very troubled girl, through no fault of her own. Of course, dd hates me. I always worry that I'm permanently hurting my relationship with dd and that as soon as she can get away from all my "controlling" ways she will get out. I know eventually I have to let her make some mistakes, and learn from them. I'm just afraid in this particular environment at this time, the mistakes would be irreversible.
So, moms, especially Bunnierose and heartandroses, how do I make this a "teaching" experience with dd? I do want to somehow can I make her see in her 14 yo mind that I have her best interests at heart, and that while I might forbid the friendship entirely (as sometimes I feel any parent in her right mind would) I am not doing so because I do feel H. has some redeeming qualities, and in large part I believe her parents are to blame because they let her run the household.
Any advise would be appreciated.

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Personally I think that people can be "taught" alot of things but the essential thing is that they "learn". You can do your best to try to demonstrate and explain your point of view to express to your dd why a friendship with this person isn't right at this time in her life but she may not "learn" it that way. In fact, she might not learn that you were right until much later in life. She's 14 and has troubles of her own. Some life lessons take a very long time to learn. I know adults who still don't have the necessary insight to understand the wisdom of certain decisions.
I could go on ad nauseum about how things my parents tried to "teach" me are only now resounding with me as wise and the right things for me. At the time I may have refused to accept some of them. Others I completely rebelled against and much to my own expense. I personally am prepared for the fact that my dd will not understand or agree with many of the things I insist upon. But I choose to do these things in her best interest.
I remember hearing from my parents how I might not understand then but when I have children of my own then I'd understand. And you know -- they were so right. There were alot of things I didn't understand until now. So don't worry about having your daughter agree with and approve of every decision you make. Just do what you think is right and continue to keep her close.
Well, mom_drangonfly, I'm going to try to tackle this, not sure if it's going to make much sense when I'm done though! ;)
I probably would have asked to have H to our house rather than DD go to H's house, especially since you've expressed a lot of concern about the level of supervision there.
Part of the teaching part of this scenerio is going to need for you to point out H's good qualities as you see them, but when you talk about the things that worry you, focus on the BEHAVIOR that you object to, rather than objecting to H as a person.
Don't worry - you are doing the right thing.
Personally, I think you handled this great! I would much rather have my DD14's friend 'I' here, at my house, than have them "hanging out" somewhere else. Also, like you, I have talked to DD over and over about how to like your friend, but not like their choices. That's the teaching part here - I'm hopeful that it does eventually sink in - she won't always admit it at the time, but I do here things coming from DD that indicate she's heard what I said.
But I'm also seeing this teaching as fitting into a much broader theme - this is the time of life when our "children" are learning how to grow into adults, and how to manage healthy friendships is part of that. This week not only has DD dealt with friends who get high at lunch, but also friends who say or do mean things to other friends, friends who want to exclude another friend from a long-planned lunch together, a guy friend who is being mean to his girlfriend, another guy friend who is showing surprising tenderness, two guys asking DD to "see if she likes me"........ you get the point, it's High School - and there's all sorts of good and bad friend behaivor to sort out and decide which behaviors matter to you and which ones don't and how to keep it all together and not lose friends, etc.
Your DD learning how to see H for who she is, and not to over-romanitcize her problems, will be a great growth lesson for her. It might not happen right away, but it will.
One more thing - you said "dd hates me" - but really she's just really mad right now. I think that's OK - part of the relationship of parent/child is us setting boundaries and them getting mad at us for doing it! I've joked recently that a day when both of my kids "hate" me at the same time is a victory LOL I must be doing something right. I don't really want them both mad at me, but I can't parent if they only ever are happy with what I do.
HTH
Sue
You handled it beautifuly. Your dd will see - eventually - that her mom was deeply compassionate yet loved her enough to set limits. Forbidding the friendship is the easy way out and you are choosing to stay on the high road. Hang in there!
jt
When my DD was 15 she and her b/f broke up. He was from a very troubled background and she felt like she was abandoning him so she continued to talk with him but then he began to exhibit some very disturbing behavior toward her. I became concerned for her emotional and physical well-being. I was also extremely concerned for him b/c we (she and I) had been his family for two years. Ultimately I had a talk with his grandmother (guardian) and we agreed that it would be best for them to not speak, write notes, etc. DD was furious with me for this but two years later she gets it. She realizes that he was manipulating her with guilt to stay in his life. She also realizes that they needed time apart to find other more positive friendships.
At this point, I think you are handling this situation well. Right now I think this is a situation that could be used to teach your DD about compassion and friendship. However, if you ever become concerned that this friendship might seriously hurt your DD, then you must put her well-being first. She will eventually understand and love you more b/c you dared to protect her.
Hi - I think so far so good. I would have done just as you did - allow H to stay at your home, but not allow dd to go to H's home. That's basically how I've always handled a situation like that. I mean, even telling dd that the reason may not be good enough for her or it may be a reason she isn't ready to hear or handle is fine also. The bottom line is that you're the mom and while you're not forbidding dd to see H, you are placing some REASONABLE limitations on the friendship and hopefully dd will one day come to view the situation as you do, or near to it.
In every situation where I have placed limitations similar to those you've imposed on dd and H's, my dd has come around to realize that it's just not worth it, or the friend really is trouble, or that dd simply has moved on emotionally, etc.
There was only ONE kid who my 16dd clung to and it seemed to take forever for dd to finally let it go, and surprisingly it was the friend who told dd that she couldn't be friends with dd anymore. haha - her reason? The friend claimed that everytime she hung out with my dd she got into trouble with her mom. Since this girl dumped my dd, she's gone back to her sexually abusive BF, she's been taken out of school, and she got caught smoking pot on school grounds, among other things (pregnancy). So, my dd is very grateful to me NOW for limiting thier friendship as she wants nothing to do with her at all - it only took 2 years!
You did great in my opinion!
Thanks to all for your replies. I think I knew I wasn't being unreasonable, but my dd causes me to second guess everything I do. I find its best to keep it short with her, and not get into any lengthy explanations. And that is hard for me! I tend to go on and on, as if I have to explain and defend all of my actions. That is because dd knows exactly what buttons to push with me. Also, because dd doesn't confide in me, and I hear of so many moms on this board that have that kind of relatioship with their dd's, that I wonder if I'm too strict. But what I've found is that while I seem to do the same things that you moms do, my dd reacts differently. This may have to do with her own inner struggles, though, and there is not much I can do about that besides have her continue in therapy as she is.
It turns out dd may have some learning disabilities, and some self esteem issues with that. We're in the process of working with the school district and hopefully we will get her back on track. She used to be such a lovely girl, and now is so angry and sullen at times...she has always been very creative artistically and for Christmas to encourage this as an outlet, she received an easel, canvas, and numerous supplies. The painting that has been going on is extraordinary....and sad. The art work is often dark and moody. She drew a black heart...she has drawn a black heart with a knife through it. I just want to know....what happened? Who broke my little girl's heart? But do you think she will tell me? No.......
Mom_dragonfly, your dd sounds so much like my 16dd. She writes the most horrifying poetry that talks about death and hate and sadness at alarming levels. She draws all sorts of hearts bleeding or with knives in them. Her self esteem was in the toilet, likely still has a long way to go and she had a very poor self image. She was never very communicative with me and despite my every effort, found new and inventive ways to sneak around the rules, lie to me and/or hide things from me. Even caught red handed smoking, she refused to acknowledge the cigarette dangling between her fingers as her own. I mean, she point blank denied me what I was seeing with my own eyes!
My relationship with my other dd (18) has always been easier, open, honest, very little grief or trouble. We laugh at the same things, we enjoy the same types of movies and shows, we both enjoy cooking and shopping. It's simply an easier relationship. I thank God that it's this way because I don't know if I could handle two daughters with my 16dd's temperament! And I am dead serious about that - I don't know if I would have been able to handle more.
My 16dd was diagnosed with tourette syndrome back in 2000 at the age of 10.5. She had trouble socially and was ostracized by other kids. She always felt like the fifth wheel, the square peg desperately trying to fit into the round hole, and it showed in how she related to her peers and her family. She was always upping the ante to make herself acceptable by her classmates and neighborhood friends. She became riskier and badass, she started to smoke, curse and invented a hidden life with kids I didn't even know. All this over a 4 year span as she moved through middle and Jr high. As things were discovered and unraveled and we sought counseling it took my repeated attempts to talk with her about stuff. Even when she was an unwilling participant, I pressed on in my attempts to get her to come to me. She only began coming to me AFTER things were so bad that she had no other alternatives left.
The MAIN turning point for me and my 16dd came this past May when she was lured off the internet and sexually assaulted. Up until that point, my 16dd never wanted to believe anything I said - I was old, stupid and didn't have a clue. She lied to me left and right, and would die a thousand deaths before coming to me for help or to talk. Slowly, as she realized it wasn't as easy as she thought navigating her way through adolescence, she became more open to me. Of course, the internet incident really helped nudge her as well so it's true that sometimes good comes out of even the most horrible of situations. Not that I wish a bad situation on your dd, of course I don't, but sometimes by allowing them some extra rope, they may hang themselves and turn to the only person still standing in thier corner....you, the mom. Hang in there, it will get better. I just wanted to share this with you to help you see that each kid is different, that you're doing your best, and that hopefully something will click in your dd's head and she will turn things around. In the meantime, don't be so hard on yourself.
Thanks so much for your heartfelt response. Its nice to know that there can be an end to this distance between us and more to the point that it may just be how dd is - I just hope my dd doesn't have to take it as far as yours did. I'm so sorry that happened to your dd. That is one of the reasons I monitor email so closely - I have found out through this that her best friend H. has an internet boyfriend who is supposedly "long distance" (if he is a "boy" and not a predator). H. is apparently dreaming about having his baby! I say this often, but she is 13! There have been times that I want to confront dd about some of the things that I've read on the internet log, but then I know I'll lose this method of knowing what is going on. It seems sneaky, but when your child is in such trouble, you do what you have to. My fear is that on an overnight stay, H. will want to bring dd along into whatever risky situation she is fooling around with at the moment.
My dd seems to suffer from the same issues with self esteem that your 16 yo dd has. She has always been overly sensitive and has now developed a hard shell. I think she has always been shy and has never had an easy time making friends, although thankfully never ostracized. Now the LD problems have presented. Like your dd, she has been upping the ante to try and be accepted by her peers. I wish I could help her, but for now I guess I'll have to let the dr. be the one she goes to. I'm fortunate that I've found a therapist that dd really likes and looks forward to seeing.
Thanks again.
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