Re: disrespectful behavior
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| Fri, 03-31-2006 - 8:43am |
As an aside to tamarahar's post regarding his son, I'd really like to hear from others why they think our generation of kids seem so much more disrespectful towards thier parents than we did. I know it isn't any one thing, and I know that we weren't the picture of purity when we were teens, but you have to admit that things have gotten out of hand in regards to how so many of our youth do not respect thier parents, or adults overall.
Not saying I wasn't mouthy or downright 'fresh' with my mother, but I would never - NEVER - have considered cursing or swearing at her or calling her a stupid b!tch. I mean, I remember thinking things like that, but I wouldn't dare have said it. First off, she'd probably knock me into next week, but if my father were around, there's no telling how he'd react. I do remember once telling my mother to 'shut the hell up' and found myself charging to the bathroom and locking the door I was so shocked by what I said and didn't know what would happen next. My father was the quietest man around, but that day he took the door off it's hinges and threatened my life if I ever spoke that way to my mother again. I never did.
And I don't think fear was the key reason we didn't say stuff like that, heck, maybe some of us did and I'm just clueless. I had a lot of friends and when it came to the parents, there was that line you just didn't cross. Sibling, yes, we used to call each other horrible names and beat on one another, but not the parents. There was a line. And these days it seems that line is crossed on a daily basis. Not in my house, however. My 16dd a couple of time said things that were out of bounds, but she was quickly put in her place and we haven't had any issues with that kind of talk in our house again, thankfully.
Again, I don't think it was fear alone that kept us in our place when we were teens. I think it was that respect for elders in general was more prevalent, and especially the women in our lives, i.e., moms, etc.
All you have to do is listen to the pop station on your FM radio to hear the crap that is spewed into our kids' heads. The references to women are so degrading - speaking about women in general as disposable toys or stupid and easy to deceive. I remember certain songs being risque in the 70's and 80's but not so many being down right abusive the way they are now. A couple of years ago I can recall that I spent a lot of time explaining to my dd's (and thier friends) why certain songs were not really good songs, even though they had a good beat. We have the boy, J, that stays with us occasionally; he is bussed in from the city to attend our schools and he's become a member of our family. He and I have discussed this at length. He recently told me that I helped shape the music he listens to now. He said that he doesn't really enjoy the crud he used to listen to anymore since I pointed out so many of the lyrics. He is a writer and I notice his lyrics have cleaned up a bit as well.
I don't think it's just the music that's creating this comfort with disrespectful behavior, obviously there is more to it, but I can't help thinking that this age of 'anything goes' is slowly but surely creating a very hostile environment...in some areas, instead of our tolerance growing, it's diminishing...and to say you're a feminist has become a dirty word....the meaning of true feminism has even changed. I see so many girls today with an attitude like, "Well if HE can do it, so can I" but not in regards to bettering themselves through career choices and education, but in regards to slutting around and presenting themselves cheaply. It's no wonder some buys think it's okay to use and abuse thier women when they are the one's who perpetuate that type of behavior - it's like they have no self respect for themselves so why would anyone respect them? YNWIM?
I'd really be interested in other's thoughts on this.

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Great question! I'll take a stab at some possible reasons - but I won't go so far as to call them answers.
Pop culture is a huge influence. People speak in one-liners on TV and the person with the most smart*** retort wins.
Parents wanting to appear "cool" in front of their kids and their friends. I have a very good friend who has always allowed her kids to say anythig they wanted in front of her. Her son is a year older than my dd and, at a time when she would be given a time out for saying "God" or "crap" (around second grade), my friend was validating her ds's comments by saying things like "I know that does suck". Her ds now tells her - on a regular basis - to "Get the f out of my life", "F off, you B" and things like that. Her dd's (12 year old twins) are nearly as bad. I doubt that they'd be doing this if they had been stopped in their tracks earlier andwith smaller indiscretions. Dd no longer gets time outs (!) but I'll shoot her a look or correct her if she says "crap" one too many times. She never swears (the heavy duty stuff) in front of much less AT me. I used to swear like a sailor before dd came along (boyd id I have to work at that one!), but I never swore AT people - there's a huge difference.
A sense of entitlement. Each generation is guilty of indulging their kids a little more than the last. We're no exception, I'm afraid
And, finally, dh's theory. Dh says that the breakdown of society can be traced to not using turn signals when driving. When the little niceties - the small considerations - go, the big things follow.
Signing of.... blink..blink...blink...
jt
(i can related to your story about your dad - mine was a quiet one, too and a true gentleman until the day he died. He shouted "damn it" at me once when I was a teen at a time I undoubtedly deserved worse. I cried for the entire day)
Good question.
One thing I think is that more kids are left to themselves. With both parents working now, kids are not being taught respect. I remember our family sitting down to supper together at the kitchen table, that doesnt happen much anymore. We didn't sit in front of tv or video games or computers, we interacted with our neighbors, playing games together, talking etc.
We also live in a society where we are afraid to punish our kids. We took punishment away from teachers, and we as parents don't punish as we should. I belive in spankings, not abusive spankings, but ones that show you can't get by with what you did.
But most of all we are not we are a generation that is pulling away from God. We are accepting things that God said is wrong. We don't read our Bibles for Guidance on how to treat people. If we got back to doing what God wants, to treat people they way he instructed, I don't belive we would be having the problems we are having today.
What a good question. I have a couple of thoughts.
I agree on the pop culture thing - the portrayal of families on TV has become a joke. It hit us one night several years ago when my DH said "did you ever notice that every single dad on TV is a bumbling idiot? Half the jokes are about how dumb dad is" It made me see sit-coms in a different light.
I also think parents fail to set reasonable boundaries for their children. I'm asked often "how do I get my child (not teen, yet) to stop crying/whining/yelling" but parents won't teach their childrne other ways to get what they want. My kids see consistently and constantly that being rude or disrespectful won't work to get what you want. My DS6 is shocked when he sees kids running wild, yelling at their parents, or disobeying teachers. He's not perfect (just ask his big sister lol), but he knows what the expectations are.
I do think, also, it's an accidental outgrowth of growing informality. I called all my parents' friends "Mr" or "Mrs", but my kids know my friends by first names. My kids are more casual (and more comfortable) with me and DH and with other adults than I was. There's a part of this that's good, but kids don't always know where the boundary is between casual and disrespectful, and I don't think that I always know what the limits are either.
Thanks for the provacative question!
Sue
I almost didn't reply to Tamarah's thread, and now I wish I hadn't of.
Your post brings up some really good questions, but I knew that ultimately us parents would be blamed. And I wasn't disappointed by the next 2 posts. I'm just surprised it hasn't already been brought up that 9 times out of 10 if a teen has a real problem like drugs, alcohol, or whatever, that it is the parents' fault. Or that she wasn't scuttled off to the troubled teen board.
I see this board as getting more and more judgemental.
zz
"did you ever notice that every single dad on TV is a bumbling idiot? Half the jokes are about how dumb dad is" LOL - my H made the very EXACT comment several years ago as well. And you know what? I remember this when Family Ties was on tv and that was in the 80's! But, on the Cosby show, Mr. Huxtable was very well respected - notice that? I totally agree with at observation and it's part of the reason why I rarely ever watch family-type sitcoms at all anymore. They make me sick for so many reasons - like he wife is always really pretty and hot but the H is overweight or dumpy or plain stupid. It's just so unreal. But I guess that's what it's supposed to be.
And I agree with the informality of everything today. All my kids' friends call me by my first name, except maybe one or two. There have been times where a kid will be joking around and cross the line and I've had to reprimand them or remind them that I am not thier peer - I think when we were growing up the Mr. & Mrs. took care of that. OTOH, I think our generationg of parents don't like the Mr. & Mrs. stuff so much because it somehow denotes 'old' and we don't like that - lol!
Hmmm... if you are referring to my post, it was not at all my intention to be jugemental. In fact, I stated that I was stating reasons (or, opinions would have been a better term) and not providing answers. I am not casting blame, but merely making the observation that - especially in the early years - the buck does stop with mom and dad. You can quickly and effectively stop a six year old from swearing in front of or at an adult, but it is not so easy to curb a teen who is in that mode.
As to problems with drugs and alcohol abuse - those are frequently choices made by the teen in a situation apart from his/her parents. Sure, the teen has eveything he's been taught in his head and everything that's been modeled to him in his mind's eye, but he still has free will.
Disrespectful behavior is just that - behavior.
I disagree, I don't think it's completely the parent's fault for any of those behaviors you mention: problem like drugs, alcohol, or whatever (in this case disrespect). I think it's a mulitude of factors that contribute to poor behavior.
My 16dd was born with a desire to live life 'on the edge' - that's what I call it. I've had more than a rough ride with her over the past 8+ of her 16 years and I can tell you first hand that I did nothing different with her than I did with my older 18dd whose disposition is extremely calm and easy going. 18dd has a very strong sense of what's right and wrong and I've had almost no disciplinary problems with her whatsoever. 16dd, OTOH, has always been a mover and a shaker. She cried for the first 3 months of her life despite all the nurturing and time spent with her - I went through four baby snugglers desperately trying to find the right one! She was up by 7AM and awake crying all day until 7/8PM. That was maddening and her DR's were no help. By the time she was 2 she was all over the place and I was always one step behind. This dd had soap in her mouth probably 5/6 times by the time she was 10 for lying and cursing. She lit matches and almost burned down the school in 9th grade. I could go on and on. I learned when she was about 10 that I HAD to parent her different. Her issues stemmed from neuro-biological disorders that I was not familiar with. I learned about them and altered my parenting with this dd to fit her needs and my sanity. That's what parents do. They try and figure out a way to make it work. Sometimes it's a smashing success and sometimes it's a devastating failure. I think my 16dd's attitudes and behaviors along the way can be attributed to not just her disorders but her emotional needs not being met by her bio-dad, a learning disability, her over achieving sister stealing the show, crappy teachers, DR's missing her disorder years earlier, my divorce, etc. I do not believe that there is any one defining factor.
I don't think anyone was completely pointing the blame on parents and parents alone. In fact, I think most of the posters were blaming society as a whole. I'm sorry if you read my posts to be pointing the entire blame on the parent. That wasn't my intention by posting this topic - AT ALL. A long time ago I read "It Takes a Village" by Hillary Rodham Clinton, and although she may not be everyone's favorite First Lady, she has a point. It takes more than just the parents to successfully raise a child and THAT'S what I was referring to in my OP - the fact that society has dropped the proverbial ball.
I don't think this lack of respect we see is limited to just our youth. I think in general people lack respect -- not just to one another, but to themselves as well. Social courtesies, self-respect, consideration, etc., seem to have gone by the wayside.
Movies that are geared toward our young people seem to glorify this attitude. The one I was most appalled by was the remake of "Freaky Friday" a few years ago starring Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsey Lohan. I watch very little to no television so I don't know if this same thing is portrayed there as well, but it sounds like it is. Our culture spends so much time in front of that thing watching either programmed television or rented movies, it seems only natural that our children emulate what they see there.
How many times have you gone to Wal-Mart or the grocery store and seen people in their pajama bottoms and slippers, with their hair uncombed and looking like they had just rolled out of bed and were going to roll right back into bed when they got home? To me, that speaks volumes about that person and shows a distinct lack of self-respect. Granted I don't shower, style my hair or put on make-up before I drive my DS to school at 7:15 in the morning, but I do put on clothes, wash my face and comb my hair.
I am having a hard time putting into words what I want to say, but I do think our society overall, just don't care about these things anymore. We've gotten WAY, WAY too casual. It's a total shame, imo. I got incredibly angry with DH earlier this week when he got up from the dinner table when DD was still eating and trying to tell us all about her conference last weekend. Not only did it send a message to DD that what she was saying was of no interest to him and of no value to listen to, it also set a terrible example to DS that it was okay for him to do that too. I was actually considering trying to find some sort of etiquette/social graces class for both my kids because I don't feel that we are providing the best example for them.
As parents, we do have the responsibility to lead by example. Perhaps we haven't been such great leaders?
I totally agree. My 16dd likes to wear her pj bottoms to school sometimes "Everybody does it mom!" - I become a little unhinged truth be told. I just don't think it's a nice representation. I think it screams, "Yeah I'm here, but only because I have to be here...I didn't bother making an effort to clean up either and that's too bad". My dd knows I hate this and sicne she and H are the first one's up and out (H drives her to the bus) I sometimes miss it.
Common courtesy and general manners, etiquette, etc...almost all gone. And often, appallingly, the adults ARE worse than the kids!! Eiyee!
sorry to say but i think it has to do with the parents, not the kids.
I agree that kids/teens are going to talk back, be rude, etc etc ---- but i think that it really depends on two main factors - the first is the rules, boundaries and expectations of the parents from the children. this is a key issue - if the children are raised in a home
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