Parenting Older Teen - HELP!
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| Fri, 12-08-2006 - 12:06pm |
I'm pretty much at the end of my rope, and I don't know if I should be - or if my kid is just "normal."
I am a single mother with two sons - 15 and 17 - both gay. My 17 year old will be 18 on January 1 - I've heard at least 525,600 times in the past week that he "can do whatever he wants" once he turns 18.
He is the most disrespectful child I have ever met - and one of the laziest. Although he's very talented, has a wonderful voice, and is a phenomenal actor (which is what he wants to do), I have yet to see him show the slightest motivation in any other area of his life.
We're not talking slightly unmotivated...we're talking NO MOTIVATION AT ALL. He doesn't do schoolwork, won't get a job, treats everyone around him like dirt, doesn't do his chores, and is completely disrespectful. His days consist of going to school and doing nothing (not very little - NOTHING), coming home, going on the computer and talking on the phone, and laying on the couch.
Counselors don't help - antidepressants don't help - and I don't know what to do anymore. Making rules is a joke, because he doesn't follow them - and doesn't care what consequences he suffers as a result - take away his phone? I can't - it's not mine to take away - he's on his friend's plan. Take away the computer? I could - but them I'm afraid he'll smash it when I'm not home.
I feel like I'm hostage to my son's behavior and selfishness - and I don't know how much is normal. He doesn't get into trouble with the law, doesn't smoke or do drugs (although I'm sure he drinks whenever he gets the chance, but so do most of the other 17-20 year olds that I know), takes care of his body and his clothes - so I don't know if the behavior is just my son manifesting his anger at the rest of the world to me because I'm HERE. He'll be 18 in three weeks, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to make him leave - I don't want to do that, because then I'll lose him forever...but I don't know how much more of this I can take.
Does anyone have any ideas?

My DD will be 18 in March. She mentioned once about the "when I'm 18 I can do anything I want." and my response was that as long as she lived in my house and I was paying the bills, she still had to obey my rules, which are pretty reasonable. I assume your DS is a senior. What does he plan to do after grad from h.s.? I really can't relate to the unmotivated, rude kid because I haven't had to deal w/ that problem. I definitely would say that after he graduates from h.s., you will make him leave if he treats you badly and isn't either going to school or getting a job. Why is he so angry and where is his father?
I do have a couple of my DH's nephews who are about 20 and are still unmotivated and their parents finally had to throw them out of the house. They are (just barely) surviving. We figure it's only a matter of time before they discover that the minimum wage jobs just aren't cutting it for their future.
Thanks so much for your reply.
There are a number of reasons why he could be angry. We've had him to several counselors trying to find the reason, but a counselor can only help you if you talk to them. A few years ago, he was the victim of a crime - the person who committed the crime was, unfortunately, part of my family's social circle. We attempted, unsuccessfully, to prosecute, and there was a major division of friends...even now, my son is invited to parties where he knows this person will be - it has created awkwardness and discomfort, and he probably blames me for forcing him to open his mouth.
His father is about 20 miles away - he made several attempts to have a relationship with my son, but he is not one to be terribly inconvenienced. The fact that my son is rude to his father and unmotivated to do anything for him makes it easier for my ex to separate himself. My son brings a great amount of stress and nervousness to the household. We are always thinking ahead to how we can negotiate the latest battle, and we're constantly walking on eggshells so as not to upset him too much. My ex refuses to deal with this and just doesn't talk to him - he's there if my son needs him, and he loves him dearly, but he can't handle the pain of knowing someone he loved for 18 years has turned into a jerk.
Like I said, he's not a bad kid in terms of the law, or drugs, or anything like that. When he wants, he can be sweet and loving. But he is self-absorbed and self-centered beyond belief - and it's getting to us.
After school, he's going to community college - and then transferring to a four-year school - OR he's going to go "make it big" in theater - he has the ability and talent to do either - but the motivation just isn't there.
Again, thanks for your help.
I almost hate to weigh in here, because, thankfully, neither of my 2 boys have ever been *really* disrespectful of me. There have been moments, I assure you, but luckily a certain look or even an "excuse me???" comment from me usually brought them back to earth. I really have no help for you on that front. I have seen some of my friends' kids be *very* disrespectful to them and I just cringe, so I really, really feel for you.
This kid *has* to ask for money at some point in time, right? I mean, if he has no job, then there has to come a point where he needs money for something. Clothes, gas, bus fare, "fun" money (CDs, movies, cokes, etc). If so, you need to quit giving it to him. It's time for him to learn that the money fairy isn't going to visit him anymore...he has to work like the rest of us schmucks for it. :) No work = no pay.
As for taking away the computer...do you really need it at home? What I'm getting at, if you are afraid of him smashing it if you take it away from him, then remove the thing from the home altogether. Or go back to dial-up. It's amazing how frustrated the kids get at dial-up and simply give up trying to get on-line! LOL (I know, ds15 is begging me to go to dsl, and I just keep "forgetting" to call) Or, if he ends up breaking it, remove *everything* from his room sans bed, clothes, and alarm clock, and tell him you will either sell it for payment for the computer or hold it ransom until he can come up with the money to buy a new one.---I would tell him this *beforehand*, so he knows what will happen if he tears up anything in *your* house.
I too heard the "when I turn 18, I can do whatever I want" spiel. I would simply look at my soon-to-be 18yo and just snerk ~ "yeah, whatever, dough-boy." Other times I would say "cool, that means you'll be buying and paying for all your own stuff?? Wow. I want to see how you plan on paying for your car insurance, your truck payment, and your part of the groceries and utilites on what you make." Eventually, mine wised up.
Look very hard at yourself and what you expect of your son. Decide what you can and cannot live with. Boil it down to just a very few things. Then try just sitting down with him, or, better yet, go on a car ride with him (they can't escape from a moving vehicle!) and talk with him. Tell him life at the house has become unbearable, and that some things *must* change. Tell him you will change this, that, or the other, but in return, he must do this or that. Honestly, I don't know if it would work but you could always give it a shot. At least the kid could see you are willing to give a little and maybe he could give a little too.
I really feel for you. I was a troubled teen and there was *nothing* my mom could do right. I ended up moving out when I turned 18 (yes, even then teens had the "when I turn 18.." crap going on). Truthfully, it was the best thing that could've happened. Granted, I was motivated to finish high school, which I did--on time and with honors-- and I also held down a part time job to pay for my rent, etc. so I learned quickly how to budget my money. I guess what I am getting at, is even troubled teens can turn out ok. :)
Not only is he not working up to his potential - and no, he's not passing.
The problem is, my son is a behavior problem in school. Not a serious one by any means...he doesn't have fights, curse at teachers, use weapons - he just wanders the halls singing and does whatever he wants. He is classified, and we've fought the special ed departments for 12 years to get him the services that he needs, but at this point, they're inclined to just "push him through" so they can get rid of him...so even though he's not passing, they'll find a way to graduate him. Which is not necessarily a horrible thing, because turning 18 midway through his senior year, if he DOESN'T graduate, he won't go back - he'll just quit - and he's completely unmotivated, so he won't get a GED. I told him what he does after high school is his business, but it's my business to make sure he graduates. If he goes to college, fine - if not, he needs to get a job and pay rent - because I won't get child support for him if he's not going to school, and I'm not about to randomly support another adult - I'll get a roommate who will pay his or her own way.
One of the problems is that he is an expert manipulator - he lies and cajoles his way around everything - it's as if people are so afraid to make him angry, so afraid he won't "like them anymore," that he manages to get whatever he wants out of his friends. So my threats of "I won't give you money" fall on deaf ears, as his friends do.
I tried talking to them and explaining that they were, in fact, defeating my parenting purpose, that of educating my child into proper behavior, but it fell on deaf ears...so I've now taken the attitude that as long as he's not getting money from me, and as long as he's not acuiring it illegally, I don't care - I can't control what other people do.
His ex-boyfriend put it excellently - "He's like a black hole - he sucks your money, your energy, your self-esteem, your backbone, and leaves in his wake a mere shell of a human being that wouldn't take half this sh** from anyone else...I don't know how he does it, and I don't know why we can't fight it - but he's like human quicksand."
I appreciate your reply - and agree with everything you say. We have been down the "you'll pay to replace it road" once before - he got mad at me and threw something at a window - which smashed. At the time he was working, and I withdrew all the money from his bank account to pay for it.
Money is not his issue - he knows I don't have any - I'm working two jobs just to feed us - so he gets it from his friends. How, i don't know - he is a master manipulator.
I have preemptively taken your advice - I explained to him that I don't want to throw him out, and once he's 18, there are certain things I can't control (for instance, he wants to get his nose pierced - which I think is ridiculous. I told him once he's 18, I can't stop him, but I won't pay for it, I won't buy him anything to take care of it, and I will continually tell him what I think of it...but I won't throw him out because of it). THings I won't tolerate, however, are disrespect and a disregard for the other people in the house. He causes an enormous amount of stress on the family, and I won't have my younger son's emotional well-being paralyzed by his behavior. If he continues, he will have to leave. He can go live with his father, if he wants, but the rules there will be far more strict than mine are...and he won't last there long.
I have already implemented the "no money" issue - he wants a yearbook, and as a senior, should have one...I have told him I will buy it for him for his birthday - he doesn't want a yearbook for his birthday. I told him to ask his father, he doesn't want to do that. Since he refuses to get a job, I told him the yearbook is his responsibility...if he graduates without one, it's not my problem. I even told him he could negotiate splitting the cost with me, and I would come up with extra chores he could do around the house to earn the money, but he said no...so as of now, he will not get a yearbook.
I have also put a moratorium on rides once he turns 18. He refuses to get a license, because I can't afford to buy him a car, and I told him he has to pay his own insurance. So i have to drive him everywhere. I told him we operate on a day to day basis - if he doesn't behave and treat me with respect, I don't drive him where he needs to go, and he's on his own.
I'd like to think these things will help him learn a lesson, but as long as his friends rise to the occasion and help him out, they won't - hopefully, they themselves will learn soon.
When we spoke with one of DS2's teachers his senior year about the number of classes he was cutting, he shrugged and said 'your son has figured out the system-what are we gonna do?"
Yes, it was frustrating and I have complained about the schools attitude numerous times but senior year, for some kids, becomes nothing but getting them through. It's almost as if there isnt enough time to make the changes we need to make
DS2 is also a manipulator. He is charming and has always been able to get lunch and gas money from people.
My suggestion is to change your focus from making him be what you think he should be to getting him through high school and on to the next step.
He's self centered-ok, it is what it is. Dont beat yourself up about it and accept it. You are NOT going to change that this late in the game and I am not sure you could have changed it earlier in the game. I have three kids and only one is like this-you speak of not seeing it in your other child.
What is his diagnosis? ADHD? If he is supposed to be taking meds, is he?
Here, one can make the community college decision pretty late-its not like applying to 4 yr schools so my recommendation is get him through, get the diploma, and dont try to change anything but the disrespect(although Im not sure what he is doing from your posts)
Many kids do couch, computer, and phone. Not all teens have jobs when in high school-some parents prefer it that way
Im not going to excuse the disrespect but I would be grateful he is attending school at this point. We're 5 months away from graduation, Mom!! Ignore the 'Im going to be 18' stuff-they find out real quick how little that means(enjoy the sex toy store, I guess)
And stop driving him places-I mean, just stop. Yep, 95% of the time he will bum a ride but he needs the other 5% to get his license(thats like a diploma-I put that in the my responsiblity category to the degree that I can)
Thanks so much for your reply! It's nice to hear from someone that maybe there's a little bit of "normalcy" going on here.
I'm not particularly concerned about the "when I'm 18" stuff, because I moved out of my house when I was 18 and 2 days - I had a job, a driver's license, and a place to live...it wasn't my choice to move out - my father didn't want to support me anymore (when my parents divorced, I lived with my father and heard on a daily basis what an inconvenience that was). I was hardly prepared for life on my own, and I was 500% more prepared than DS is - and very, very scared. I know when the time comes, and he actually considers packing his stuff in garbage bags and going out in the cold (DS's 18th birthday is January 1), he'll rethink his position.
The disrespect is mostly verbal but also extends to a disregard for the household. Ordering people around, yelling at people - he moves very quickly from "Can I?" "No" to "I hate you you f****** b****!" He says things I would never think to say to my parents and crosses the line regularly. Mostly it's an effort to push my buttons, which he has figured out how to do very easily.
Like your DS, the school shrugs his shoulders at me (Yes, he's ADHD - and he SHOULD be taking meds, but refuses - and when we try to force him, we find piles of pills outside under the porch...we've tried negotiating privileges for medication, but he'd rather do without privileges. I'm hoping that as he gets older, he'll recognize for himself the fact that medication does help him). But I feel for you, because it's the same thing. He's a senior, there's five months left, let's just get him through. They feel they have more serious problems to worry about (as long as he's not threatening anyone, having fights, doing drugs, and showing up, they're not going to do much).
Getting his license is his choice - and in my area, if you don't have a license, the publi transportation is easy, although very inconvenient, to maneuver. He's already registered for community college (I made him do that - told him he had to have some direction after graduation), and if he doesn't have his license by then, getting rides will be difficult, and he'll be forced to take the bus.
The two biggest problems I have are the disrespect and the refusal to take responsibility for his own actions - because by manipulating everyone around him, he suffers no consequences. If I refuse to drive him somewhere because he didn't do his chores or told me to go to h***, or if I refuse to give him money because he won't even look for a job, he doesn't learn the lesson, because someone else jumps in to help him. So he doesn't think "my mom won't drive me because I was nasty to her," but rather, "Mom won't drive me because she's mean."
I've tried to accept that I've done what I can to teach him right from wrong, and it's up to society and consequence to teach him the rest. Many of my friends have told me I'll have to let him "fall on his face." As true as that is, it's still difficult to watch - which is my own problem, and one I'll have to deal with.