drinks not a success

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
drinks not a success
11
Sun, 07-18-2004 - 2:38am
After 3 1/2 months of no contact, we got together for drinks to celebrate my recent trial victory (his suggestion). He looked okay, was the same old guy, I found him appealing but wasn't overcome with chemistry or anything. I looked good, the waiter kept hitting on me, and I was wearing perfume that makes *me* hot and usually causes a man-swarm. So, we had about an hour and a half of nice conversation, catching up, chatting, nothing all that serious. That was all fine, and I don't know, maybe we can be friends, although I was just reminded by how different his perspective on life is from mine (he's very pessimistic and hostile, I try to be more accepting/forgiving/let life flow).

Then, he brings up the breakup. Now, for those of you who know the story (check my prior posts) it was an ugly, difficult breakup after I had a brush with cancer. He suggests that I think he was the worst boyfriend ever. I'm not in the mood to get into all of it, but I did end it and never gave him "the talk," so if he wants to discuss it I'm willing. But I tried to keep it light, at first just saying that I thought he was a great man but that I regreted how it ended. He's more persistent, and he mentions something about me bashing him to all of my friends (of course I have) and how unfair that seems. That hits a button for me (these are all the friends who supported me when he was MIA when I had cancer, I feel closer to them than to him), and I say that, actually, I posted something about our breakup on the internet and (from the various boards where I posted) got hundreds of responses, that we were famous (but anonymous). I mentioned that everyone, friend, family, or internet stranger, had agreed that his behavior was not appropriate. He was taken aback.

He started justifying himself and his behavior. We got into specifics, and there's always an excuse. At one point, he says that he doesn't remember me ever specifically requesting that he go to the hospital with me for the surgery or biopsies. I think that's the craziest thing I ever heard, so I mentioned that I guess that was the problem - I wasn't prepared to go through another round of biopsies, or cancer, or face possible miscarriages, or whatever, without his support unless I "specifically requested" it. In fact, I did beg him to go to the hospital, but even just to play along, that's ridiculous. I mention that casual acquaintances, coworkers, my ex-husband, all volunteered (without a "specific request") to go to the hospital because anyone knows this was serious. I mention that hundreds of strangers on the internet agreed, that not one single person had come down on his side of this story. I think it goes without saying that you are concerned and supportive when your girlfriend of almost-2 years is facing cancer, without awaiting a "specific request." He honestly still thinks he's blameless.

So, the whole email about understanding that he'd been a selfish jerk and apologizing for hurting me, that was all total crap. He's still all "my needs," talking about how we weren't spending enough time together for him to be emotionally supportive (he wasn't getting, so he wasn't giving), even saying that I "pushed him away." He brings up Christmas. I got a call from my doctor saying they'd made a mistake telling me my September pap was normal, it had come back showing malignant cells, and I got this call in early December (so I may have had cancer for three months at that point). I had a biopsy 12/10 and got my biopsy results on Christmas Eve. I was very upset from early December (in emotional melt-down, frankly, with an extensive family history of cancer), and told him I just wasn't in the "Christmas spirit" and wanted to kind of defer it until after I knew if I had cancer. I just wanted to do something quiet and minimal, and said we could (hopefully) celebrate after I knew what I was facing. He told me that he was disappointed that I couldn't even shop with him and get in the mood for Christmas. We did spend Christmas together with his parents. Again, my breath is just knocked out of me at how clueless that was, and how much he still didn't get it - I spent every waking moment (and there wasn't much sleep) waiting to hear if I had cancer, I really wasn't in the mood for shopping and carolling and seeing little kids visiting Santa without obsessing about cancer and fertility problems, and he still doesn't get that, he feels cheated because I was the Grinch who stole Christmas for him.

All that talk in his email about recognizing that he was selfish and he hurt me, that was all just crap. He's still talking about how I wasn't meeting his needs (he wouldn't come out and say sexual needs, but that's a big part of what was going on) and that he didn't think he needed to do anything for me unless "specifically requested," that I couldn't be upset he wasn't emotionally supportive if I didn't lay out exactly what I wanted him to do.

He even had an answer to my big realization that he just wasn't all that interested in me. I sort of grilled him on it - names of my brother and sister, where I grew up, my favorite author (I'm a lit major), author about whom I've published an essay, etc. He couldn't come up with a single thing. He admitted that I'd never kept any secrets from him or refused to answer any questions from him, his lame response was that all that information didn't seem that important to me, so he didn't see why it should be important to him. I know we discussed all of those things, back in the getting to know you stage, and I know that I cherished everything he told me about himself, so I can recite an impressive list of things about him, his childhood, his dreams and memories, and I did, just to prove it. No, I don't think we discussed more than once how he wore a Superman cape to school every day for a year, but I remembered it, so what's the excuse for not remembering those things about me (or asking about them later, for that matter)?

On the one hand, I can't deny the attraction to him, and seeing him again made me kind of miss him. But, honestly, I had an intense emotional tie to him, I saw us as a couple going through life together and facing problems (like health problems) together, and he simply wasn't on the same page. He still doesn't get it, I tried to tell him that just for a while I needed the relationship to be about me, for me and my needs to be first, and he just looked at me blankly ("isn't that what we did all along?" well, no, actually). He pulls out this business about how he was never that happy in the relationship, how he didn't think we had a close emotional relationship, blah blah blah. Of course, that wasn't the tune he was singing when he convinced me to move in with him, started window-shopping for rings, told me how lucky he was to have me, whatever. Now, revisionist history, somehow it was all an awful situation, and his utter failure to react like a normal human being, let alone a good boyfriend, that's all a symptom of this "bad relationship" rather than any mistake or personal flaw of his. So, no apology, no "you're right, I'm selfish" like he said in his email, just "I never really loved you that much, that's why we ended, but let's not ruin our 'hanging out' time by discussing it."

Bottom line: he is still a completely self-absorbed, selfish idiot. He pulled out all the charisma and charm he had, and it still didn't blind me to that. I wanted to be cool and composed, but he really pissed me off, I ended up raising my voice (it was a bar on Saturday night, though, plenty of people basically yelling everywhere), and I ended up crying. I just want to beat him up, but it is now abundantly clear to me - he really is stupid and selfish. I cannot believe I heard him tell me that he understood I was worried that I had cancer, that I was scared, that I had no family out here, but he felt no need/obligation/desire to go with me to the hospital, and, anyway, he doesn't remember a "specific request" that he do so. I don't want to hear from him again.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Sun, 07-18-2004 - 12:19pm
Does anyone ever hear songs in their heads? It's pretty common, and I remember watching a discovery channel special on it once. There was a scientist who theorized that, since we have two halves to our brains, we may have two sort of subsets of consciousness that blend to create our sense of consciousness, and that, in some way, one side of our brain may be "communicating" with the other side through music, recreated sensations of scent or other sound, specific visual recollections associated with what the active side of the brain is doing, etc., and that is part of what the whole tune thing is. I was really struck by that, because I've often experienced that the song that I hear is somehow related to what's going on externally. Like, I remember fighting with my bf once, and I notice in the midst of the fight that I'm hearing a song in my head, and it's "why don't we talk it over in bed," which cracked me up and actually seemed like sort of a sly commentary on what was going on with us at the time. I've often really been amused by the song that I hear, because if it's not the current most popular radio song or a commercial jingle, it's often expressive of what I'm thinking or feeling at the moment. Anyway, I woke up this morning and was sort of replaying last night, and I recognized that the tune my brain was kicking in was that comedy song "a--hole" by Dennis Leary (the backup singers singing "he's an a--hole...."). It really cracked me up.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-16-2003
Sun, 07-18-2004 - 12:58pm
Oh yes --- the A--hole song. That one has played in my head on occasion! Sorry drinks were a bust. I am not sure it was such a bad thing though. It probably reinforced the reasons you left in the first place. It sounds to me that he was letting you know that you didn't meet his wants/needs either. It's it ironic that the very traits that first attract us to someone tend to be the very things that drive us crazy later? It is a shame that he tried to justify his behavour. It almost sounds like his lack of support was a means of punishing you for being too independent and strong. So how do you feel in the light of day?

Lois

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Sun, 07-18-2004 - 7:58pm
I think that this meeting may have actually helped you. YOu know his e-mail was a load of bull and that he's still a self-absorbed monkey's behind. It's incredible how one moment they can blind you and woo you and the next simply slap you around emotionally. That "specific request" thing gets me. My god, what a total a**wipe. I would have loved to have seen his face to discover that he has become "infamous" on the net. : ) LOL All without his knowing. He probably thought he could work things where he made you believe that the demise of the relationship was all your fault, and it sounds like he still pursued that. I am so glad that you are away from that loser in every sense of the word. You're a strong wonderful person and you deserve so much better than to be abandoned in your time of need by someone you thought loved you. It was not your fault and you are not to blame for his insensitivity.

Can we all get in line and paddle his behind? I think I might enjoy that. If he doesn't believe hundreds of our opinions, then maybe hundreds of but whoopings will buy him a clue. I am so sorry that he made you cry hon. It can't have been easy. (((HUGS))) You were very brave to have gone.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Sun, 07-18-2004 - 9:59pm
Update: okay, he sent me an email today, asking about where I posted this story about us. I sent him a link to ivillage, actually, and told him if he had a clue who my favorite author was (I'm a lit major), he might even know which posts were mine. I was feeling snotty, obviously. This initiated a long series of back and forth emails, where we basically got everything out - he hurt me, apparently I hurt him, neither of us can figure out why. I went through about two boxes of tissues crying, I broke a nail typing fast in anger, I don't know. It wasn't what I wanted. But we're both pretty intense, and evidently pretty emotional, and I just wanted to go with it, I don't care about being all dignified and controlled, not with him. In the end, he apologized, I apologized, I'm not sure where it all got us. But we agreed to try to be friends. We're making plans to see a movie some time this week. I don't know, maybe it's sick of me, but I really felt so much better at just getting it out. We talked on the phone, briefly, but we both started crying, so we got back to typing, it was easier (and yet, also easier to be honest - brutally honest). In the end, I think it was clear to both of us that we loved each other, and that it all had devolved into a spectacular mess. His last question was how it could be that we just couldn't get on the same page. He also seems to feel very strongly that he needs to "be there" for me as a friend because he let me down as a lover. I was tempted to say I didn't need him, but I'm intrigued, frankly. Is there any chance for us? Could we hang out, no pressure, as friends, and maybe we get on the same page some day? I mean, I'm dating someone, it's not as if I'm putting my life on hold or anything. I missed him, it was good to see him (even if he acted like an a--hole) I was frankly astonished at how he just kept coming back for more, just kept calling or emailing, just stayed in contact with me to try to work it out, to keep talking, it wasn't what I expected from a guy who didn't contact me for 3 months. I just feel like there's so much still between us. I don't know. I'm still pretty mixed up, it has been a long and extremely emotionally intense day.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Sun, 07-18-2004 - 10:19pm
Sorry, I know, I keep reposting to myself, but it's so weird. We just keep emailing, joking and kind of flirting at this point. References to "in" jokes we had together, reminiscing about funny things that happened, teasing each other. It's so back and forth, like every couple of minutes, it's like he's by the computer waiting for me. It's weird, right? Where is this going? We're finalizing plans to see a movie together. Hey, at least in a movie we can't start arguing, right, and he can smell my fabulous perfume and be tortured by being inches from me for a couple of hours. Why does he want to do it? Why do I? It's like driving too fast, it's stupid and against all my self-protective urges, but it feels kind of reckless and strangely fun.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Mon, 07-19-2004 - 12:09am
So, we've got plans to see a movie next Friday night, he suggested it be on a weekend. He's willing to drive out my way to make it convenient for me. What's going on here? Setting aside for a moment the advisability of ever seeing him again, the thing is, I was married my entire adult life, dated briefly, nothing serious, then met him. Is this how people work friendship post-breakup? And, after we got into a fight and both started crying the last time we "hung out," why so eager to do it again? And why so insistent it be on a weekend? He's talking about wanting to be a better friend to me, is that all he wants? Seriously, we've been joking/flirting all night, it's really weird. What's going on here?
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-07-2004
Mon, 07-19-2004 - 11:09am
Gosh - what is going on there? I can't even tell!!

I wouldn't know how to classify it or react to it, if it were me. Atleast with my ex (now BF again) I knew that his sniffing around was an "I want to get back together" sniff.

To me, it almost seems like he's being more respectful. He's not exactly pressuring you into taking him back, but into letting him be a friend. He's going out of his way to pick you up, take you to a movie, just to do something nice for you.

It's strange and I can totally understand your hesitation and also your hopefullness and curiousity. I only wish you the best, because as you know, this puts a serious stop in the "No Contact - moving on with my life" process.

If I can provide any advice to you from my own reconciliation experience with my ex - keep your expectations low. It takes a while to get the comfort/security back and he may appear to have changed - but only time will tell.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Mon, 07-19-2004 - 11:44am
I don't think he wants me back. Or, at least, he's really emphatic about being friends, doesn't seem to be pushing for anything more at all. Except for this weird thing of making plans to see a movie together on a Friday night. And joking all night, after the intense emotional turmoil of the weekend. The thing is, we're both pretty intense, and extremely articulate, so there was a lot to say. I think, too, that even when we fight we really do communicate extremely well, and I feel like we resolved a great deal. I still think he's a complete ass for believing that he didn't have to go to the hospital with me absent a "specific request" (my ex-h called me up crying when he heard about my cancer thing, he was really upset that I was seriously sick, he understood it was serious, I was scared, and he was scared for me). So, I still think my ex-bf is really lacking in the empathy department, probably so much so that we can't work as a couple. I'm just not really sure what's going on here, if he is trying to start over and rebuild trust as friends, or if he's looking for more? Is it just because he's still single and lonely? I mean, I've certainly hung out with my girlfriends on a Friday night, can I expect all of this to disappear if/when he starts dating again? I'm being very cautious, avoiding any place we could be private with horizontal surfaces, in case that's all he's after. I'm just confused, because we literally spent the entire weekend, hours and hours, calling and emailing and crying and talking, and I can't figure why he'd put that much effort into it for friendship, for the post-breakup "consolation prize." At one point, I actually said that talking about the breakup doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere, it may not be necessary, let's just talk about other things and try to be friendly, and he insisted we keep talking about the serious stuff.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-24-2003
Mon, 07-19-2004 - 12:27pm
Milton-

Why don't you just ignore his emails from now on. He doesn't deserve a response from you. Just delete his emails.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-24-2003
Mon, 07-19-2004 - 12:31pm
I posted too soon before I read the rest of the emails. I'm going to go out on a limb here and probably get slammed on this board for saying this. I've read tons of your posts, and from what I gather, I think trying to be friends with him is going to be a horrible mistake. Look where the drinks situation ended up. How long do you want to drag yourself through the mud? I have a feeling you will probably get very defensive and say that you can handle it, but I just have a bad feeling, that's all. Please take with a grain of salt. I've been there.

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