Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Find a Conversation
| Thu, 03-10-2005 - 10:53am |
Does anyone ever wish they had never met the person they are now struggling to get over?
I found myself thinking that this morning. How much easier and better life would be right now if I had never had this great relationship with all kinds of promise go down the tubes for reasons I have absolutely no control over. The grief and sadness is overwhelming at times!
I wish I could erase my memories of him, like Clementine does in Eternal Sunshine. Or have someone use one of those flash memory eraser thingies from Men in Black on me.
I am probably feeling bad today because my ex was at a church function I went to last night. We didn't speak to each other; in fact we didn't acknowledge each other's presence. I'm not even sure he saw me.
How a relationship can go from close, affirming, supportive, mutual to *nothing*--to "you don't even exist to me"--is still something I can't get my head around.

Pages
I find it funny you mentioning something about erasing them from your memory, because I was just thinking about that myself! It would be such an immediate solution to a long, hard process. Sometimes I just wish someone would go *poof* and I would be over him. However, I try to think on the bright side of things, too. I look back at my ex-boyfriends and even though they didn't mean to me NEARLY what this one did, I did learn things from the exprience that I can just now start to see years later. So, hopefully this is some sort or plan setting you up to find the person you are supposed to be with for the long haul. I often times wonder if people that have never experience true heartbreak can ever really experience true love? For example, people who have always lived in beautiful sunny environments don't get nearly as excited and happy about it as those that have experienced gray, cloudy days. I think it builds character in us as people. By the time we find the right one who will treat us the way that we deserve to be treated, we will be amazing individuals that could handle any bump in the road. Keep posting your thoughts.....it always helps! :)
I know what you're saying. My ex and I had a fight three weeks into our relationship, broke up on the phone, and then got back together within the same day. I sometimes wonder how different my life would have been if the following 2 1/2 years hadn't happened, if it had just ended that day. I hadn't formed any deep emotional attachment to him, hadn't made future plans, envisioned a life with him, etc.
Honestly, though, for all its flaws, this relationship was ultimately a learning experience for me, and provided me with a model for what I'm really looking for. We were more honest, and communicate more, than I ever have with a partner before. I finally determined that his goals and priorities, even his values, just weren't in line with mine. I left him when I had cancer, and realize now how important it is to have a partner who's good and kind and fun and loving, but also compassionate and determined to stick with you through the hard times. It's easy to find someone to party with, it's not even that hard to find someone who will send you flowers and be romantic when everything's going well, it's harder to find someone who will hold your hand when you're scared and talk with you all through the night about your fears of death, infertility, that sort of thing.
Now I know a bit better how to spot it. And I have to say that, despite the bad parts, I had a higher level of confidence and a better understanding of myself and my values during and after that relationship.
that mindset indicates that you think in "finish line" dynamics. I've seen people that attempt athletic pursuit this way - they burn out quick and in a blaze of no glory and lots of injury.
They pursue with diligence and focus whatever "race" it is that by reaching the finish line they'll be someone and never have to put themselves through any of this "misery" again.
They get there, they finish, they et the medal...and a week later nobody remembers this huge event, and nobody considers their "finish" a significant thing....so - they go at it again. Finding a bigger and badder or harder race....something that'll make 'em stand out and be noticed, so that they NEVER have to getup off the couch again. They'll be somebody forever once they get THIS ribbon.
They do it...same result....a week later nobody is talking it up, or talking about it, and a month later nobody remembers it and wonders why they're still obsessing on it. I'ts over, done finished - what's next?
That "what's next" is what burns them out. They think that every finish line is a marker that is going to signify they can sit down, relax, rest on their laurels, take it easy, they're fame and identity and security is secured and complete. They'll never have to put themselves thru it again.
How does this relate to you....well, the scenario above is pretty much where you are now - no relationship pans out to forever and so you're continuously running another race.
But here's how it COULD relate to you if you ever get into a relationship that someone doesn't realize "how you are".
I've seen a few of the "finish line is success" thinkers really make a splash. They're athletically gifted, they're capable, adn they're driven above and beyond normal paraneters becuase this is so much more than "just a ribbon" and nobody catches on. And they do great.......and then oh my god, cometh the dilemma.
They're the winner, they're the champion.....and now people are saying "so, how much better do you think you can do next year, you have to defend your title, of course". They are frozen in terror.....they thought "this was it"...and they thought getting that gold medal was really "all there was to get".....they had no idea they now had a status to uphold, and with that status was obligation, and in that obligation is a great part of their security for the future.
Most people buckle under th epressure of a title....that have no "self" at the core. they resent the obligation, requirement, expectation, commitment, and responsiblities of the title....while less and less what they came to get is available because of their changed perspective...only, they blame it on all the people that are "forcing all this on me'.
http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlbreaking&msg=17437.11
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
Hi Erin, which part of your message applies to me, versus applies to my ex, versus applies in general?
Maybe I'm not following you clearly because in my mind, my ex was a person that I was willing and happy and excited about investing time, effort, and energy going forward. I don't think I viewed him or securing our relationship as a finish line, after which time I wouldn't have to do anything else.
Are you saying that he did everything he could to win me, but then once he won me, realized what that would entail (obligation, sacrifice, etc) and ran?
And that all of this somehow is related to me now feeling like I wish I'd never met him?
None of anything I ever write is "about him" - unless I specify that in some example.
He is not your problem...and thus he is not your solution.
As for wishing you'd never been elated or joyful and had those situations...that is simply a refusal to learn the lesson in life that has been given to you repeatedly....and becuase you keep turning off the memory and creating a new VHS tape - you repeat the same scenario to the same result.
You can't learn from something until youo're willing to learn something about yourself from situations.
what you did "with him" - you do it every - on the job, with your friends....you pursue 110% whatever teh focus is with some unrealistic or undefined expectations, thinking that if I just put it "all on the line" that is allit takes. No, people put it all on the line athletically every day and lose gold medals. Sports nad life are a correlation. Your efforts and actions always take you somewhere - but not necessary in the place you'd like to be at the time you'd ike to be there.
Maybe I'm not following you clearly because in my mind, my ex was a person that I was willing and happy and excited about investing time, effort, and energy going forward. I don't think I viewed him or securing our relationship as a finish line, after which time I wouldn't have to do anything else.
But are you that excited and willing and happy to invest in you right now - in singlehood? To going forward to create a greater and more expanded personal life? Or are you saving everything in reserve for teh "next guy"? Just going thru the motions and putting out the minimum until someone else comes along, while searching high and low for them?
I think that you really know "once in a relationsip I'll continue to have to do things." But I thinnk that you believe that "a relationshihp" is a form of identity and security that you'd be able to rely on and stop worrying about "what if"...my point is that 'what if' should not exist.
As long as "what if" is in your mindset as a single person - anybody will do. As long as "anybody will do" - you're seduced by your own assumptions and projections of their words and actions.
Let's give you a real life example.
I had a man in my life once (alot of times really!) that I gave everything to and for, I readjusted my life, I restructured my agenda......I gave, and lost and sacrificed and endured. HE talked about the future, he talked about all sorts of things, we shared dates and sex ad events and activities and of course, I met his family. When the time came for "the talk" - I was fully prepared. As prepared as an emotionally unbalanced person can be....need eliminates desire and I now desperately needed this relationship "to work" in light of my investment in it....and so, we had the talk. Which inspired me to more action and sacrifice....and then we had another talk....which dissolved me into tears. Pretty much your situation actually....but his response was infinitely more revealing about "people in general and me in particular" in hindsight - than the message you're getting.
He sat back on the couch and looked at me as if I were from Mars regarding "when are we going to begin cohabitation so that we can begin our life together"......and his words were gold - about 10 years after they were said and i was really read to hear them....not just hear my own heart breaking and my fears rising up.
"What ARE you talking about? I was wondering what some of your vague questions were really about and I am to be kicked for not asking for specifics. Here you've done all this restructure so that "we" could be together because you thought we were talking about "us" and I was talking about me, someday, at some point, with someone when that time is right for me. I am so sorry that you misunderstood. I wish you had said why you were doing all that you were doing and I would have been able to say something to correct it. But you did make assumptions and act on them like facts. I can't undo this, you can't either. But there is no possible way that we can continue to see each other in light of this situation and our different goals. I've never had a communication problem with anybody before. I don't read minds and I don't assume anything. I thought you were infinitely more logical than you are and I couldn't even consider being with someone so emotionally driven and lacking in communication skills."
Are you saying that he did everything he could to win me, but then once he won me, realized what that would entail (obligation, sacrifice, etc) and ran?
I'm saying you don't know his character, his traits and his application of them, his values or priorities. Some people don't think past "accrual". They think "i want an ice cream" - keep eating ice cream - gain 5 pounds and go "I didn't want the fat, waaahhhh!" Some people think past the ice cream, to the results of eating it - asking themselves "do I want that result?" And they take actions based on the results they want to achieve, rather than he emotional in the moment gratification.
I really don't think he had to do that much to win you over. You did alot of projection and assumption into his words and actions, anytime that there was a question in the deepest recesses subliminally - you didn't ask it - you shoved it down. Don't communicate, just go with the flow...and at the point that I've so restructued on his accoutn - he'd required to commit. I think you probably could be seduced by someone who wanted a hook up - to be perfectly honest....because you're doing waht people do - you're seeing what you want to see, and hearing what you want to hear.....knowing that if this situation were somethng you were in by yourself - you'd be asking alot more questions and getting alot more facts before taking one step of action. But you want "a relationship" it represents alot of entities or aspects missing in your life and you balled all those things up put a label on it called relationship...and are now hunting that egg.
I will say you had a complication most don't....you were making a job related move that did give you an option to move to his city, which was your personal preference, with him NOT in the mix. I hope that decision isn't regretted as a result of the relationship status now. So you were in a situation of transition anyway...and you did have other things to focus on and so it is easier to project, assume, don't communicate, and act in transitional phases than in normal focused living.
Put it this way......back in couplehood together.....pretend you two had a dog. There's alot going on, there's jobs, and obligations, and moves to be made. There's alot of assumption about "who has the dog" - you don't have it - and you assume he does - you don't ask. He doesn't have it and assumes you do - doesn't ask. Finally in a state of less flux and transition...you two get together in a settled in moment...and you look at one another saying "I can hardly wait to see the dog, where is she?" Neither of you have it, it was left 'somewhere" weeks ago and becuase nobody asked or knew to ask - the dog is now lost. That is YOUR style of communication......that's very obvious. You assume ALOT and are reluctant to ask any questions that might get you an answer you don't want.
That "style" needs to be addressed if you're to succeed. Look around - where else are you doing it?
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
Erin I appreciate a lot of what you say, but sometimes I think you project your experience onto others.
I don't, and have never, hooked up with anyone in my life. I've spent most of my life NOT dating, because I have priorities, goals, activities, etc that I'm interested in pursuing...and it is the rare man who even comes close to having similar priorities, goals, values, etc. I am not easily taken in and I'm not gullible.
I have spent much of my adult life looking around at girlfriends who seemed to run from r'ship to r'ship because they were lacking something within themselves to be an independent, solo entity. I have not done that.
I've spent most of my adult life investing in myself. Few people my age have had the amazing professional and personal experiences I have, because I have created those opportunities for myself and did them because I was following my own agenda, leading, and dreams.
That you fault me for not communicating with my ex, for not understanding that he was never on the same page with me and that I misconstrued everything, is a leap. Yes, there's a valuable point there that we should have sat down to have an explicit conversation about our intentions and expectations going forward. Fair enough.
But to question any meaning that I drew from the dozens of things he said and did that were consistent with someone wanting a continuing relationship with me is to erase meaning altogether from human interaction. You're letting him completely off the hook for leading me on in the ways that he did.
I've been through a horrible break up before. One where I just wanted to die. No, I just wanted him to die because it would've been easier than imagining him with someone else. (Actually no imagining necessary since that's what I came home to find and the reason we broke up.) Anyway, this was, oh gosh, 7 years ago now. Wow, that seems like forever. But back to my point.
Everything we go through in life, the memories, the sorrows, the pain, the joys, everything – that is what makes us the person we are today. When time has healed the wounds, and age has allowed reflection, many people would not change a thing because then they wouldn��t be who they are today. Yes, betrayal scars us – but it makes us wiser and more wary for the next one. Yes, confusion hurts us – but it makes us realize better who will actually be the ‘right’ one for us in the future. Yes, this sucks right now, and you wish none of this had ever happened – but was there not a time when you were happy? Would you trade those times to give up the pain now? The short-term answer is ‘of course’ but the long-term answer is ‘no way’.
Now this doesn’t apply to every situation of course – someone who has been in an abusive situation might definitely have been better off if they had never met their tormentor. But though I was in an emotionally, and eventually physically, abusive relationship, that time made me stronger and made me able to bear what I can today
I am a firm believer in the idea that everything happens for a reason. We may not see what that reason is today; we may think that there cannot be a reason for any of this; but years from now we can reflect back and see how these paths that we have gone done truly shaped what we have become. Our paths are not always chosen by us, sometimes we are forced to go the ‘road less traveled’ even though it seems impossible. However, what WE make of the journey IS up to US.
I would never erase anything of my past, for I know who I am today. To change where I have been would be to lose the person I have become.
Okay.....how often has this same result occurred....where from some assumptions used as facts....you took actions that led to your disappointment?
I think my point is that in such a short period of time, and in light of the fact that all your time was spent in an LD relationship so it had more of an "affair" nature to it - prioritization one another another due to distance traveled to see one another - very little "real life" involvement and impact of daily type activities or problems.....were your expectations realistic about what would result?
The old saying "the first 3 months don't count" - simply means that no matter how much "time" you cram into 3 months - you can't overcome the high heat of infatuation that pervades that time period and doesn't leave you free for objective discernment about character, or about specifics regarding issues (even though you think you're talking specifics - you're talking generalities).
I'd say in anything LD dynamic....the first 6 months don't count. All the excitement and anticipation, along with some projection and assumption that would be natural in the rational and mature person....it'd lead most rational and matue people to conclude "we really don't know one another yet, we're busy impressing nad pleasing and being impressed and pleased."
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
it would be perfect not to hurt.... but i wonder if its worth losing all the happy memories too... i doubt it.
In the relationship realm? I can't think of a time. My bad relationship with the gay ex fell apart after many many conversations about what we wanted (including marriage, kids, etc) (obviously he wasn't out of the closet yet). We were very open about it; it was a constant topic. No assumptions there. During my one-month "fling" in Africa a couple years ago, I was very clear with the guy that it was inappropriate that he was saying "I love you" after two weeks, that I didn't feel the same way, that we did not have a future.
In this situation, Erin, yes of course I knew we were in an infatuation stage. But we also saw qualities in one another that were consistent with what we both want in a partner. He said, explicitly, that he doesn't date just for the sake of dating. That it is very rare for him to meet the kind of person he is looking for in a long-term partner. That his prior relationships hadn't worked out for X,Y,Z reasons. Yes, of course we were busy impressing and pleasing each other. I think we both knew it, and we joked about "wooing" each other...and then joked with each other later when things felt like they were settling into a more comfortable "dating" place where we relaxed a little bit (and that was him talking, not me).
I didn't expect a marriage proposal when I moved to his city. I expected that we would move to the realm of getting to know each other in a real way, based on real life and our expectations and the reality of daily life. He had never had a LDR before, and I had told him from the outset that I don't like them because it's so hard to get to know someone for "real". He said he would follow my lead on the LDR thing, since he didn't know what it was like--but that he was game if I was.
A few months in, he talked about the idea of moving to my city; he said things like "I'm in it to win it" and he was eager to meet my family...blah blah blah I don't need to rehash it all. You would probably argue that I should have discounted or ignored everything said between us during this stage. But I didn't because he was not making over-the-top declarations of love or promises about a future together. To me, his actions and behavior were sending a clear, consistent message about his interest that seemed healthy from any way you looked at it.
Incidentally, I had the opportunity to move to be in the same city with the gay ex...and I *didn't* make the move then because I knew it would only be for him, and that wasn't healthy. With this guy, I had an amazing professional opportunity before me, and how amazingly great that we could stop the craziness of a LDR and find out sooner rather than later if we had something real. That seemed HEALTHY too.
I'm crushed that he didn't even give us a chance to find that out. For reasons that I still. do. not. understand. And yes, I'm feeling stuck in circular patterns of thinking, and alternately appreciating your insights and getting pissed off at what you say because I think you build in a lot of assumptions about the kind of person I am, and vulnerabilities in me that simply aren't there.
Edited 3/10/2005 5:44 pm ET ET by course11
Pages