Death in family, financial problems

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-21-2003
Death in family, financial problems
17
Fri, 06-17-2005 - 7:57am

This is a rather delicate problem. Last year my mother-in-law was diagnosed with cancer. There was never any hope for recovery and unfortunalty she died this past April. When she died she had no life insurnace or assests of any kind, hence there was no money to pay her huge medical bills nor was there any money to pay for her funeral expenses. My wife's sister and her husband agreed to pay for the funeral costs up front using money they had recently recieved from a rather large home equitiy loan. The catch is that they want my wife and her brother to make monthy payments to them so that each of them pays a third of the funeral costs. This will be about $2500 per person. They want minimum payments of $200 per month because they need the money back to put an new addition on their home.

Here is my problem. My mother-in-law lived with my wife's sister and her family for the past 4 years. A few years ago she recieved a $15,000 settlement from a disability case. My wife's sister took her mother's money and built an addition onto their home. By addition I mean that they added a new living room, remodeled their kitchen, and built a new deck. Her husband has a friend that is a builder so together they did all the labor and of course my mother-in-law paid for the materials. The addition was instant equity in their pockets. I felt that was a misuse of the money but I was told that it was none of my business. That was fine at the time, but now I'm being asked to pay for funeral expenses that this money could have paid for, in full or at least partially. To make matters worse, her sister cashed her mother's $1200 disability check a week after she died and we have no idea what she did with the money. We know it was not put toward the funeral expenses nor was it put into any of the unpaid medical bills.

My wife stays home with our children, I work two jobs to make that happen. We do not have $2500 to pay for this funeral. We live on a very tight budget and there is no way we can afford this. My wife however insists that this is something "we have to do" and she's unwilling to discuss the issue further. If I stand up to my position I will turn my wife and her family against me. If I keep quiet we will suffer financial problems witout question and I know I will end up resenting my wife and her family. As I see it I'm in a no win situation. I don't expect any miracle solutions but I'd like to hear from others who have been in similar situations. I have no idea what I'm going to do.

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-29-2003
Fri, 06-17-2005 - 10:15am

I'm a wife of 22 years, and I DON'T like what I just read about YOUR wife basically telling you to shut up and fork over the dough. You have some legitimate concerns about how this is being handled, and since you are the one generating the money in the family, you most certainly DO have a say in all this. I don't understand why the whole family can't call a meeting and calmly discuss all of this. Surely some give-and-take and some compromise is possible.

For your wife to treat you with such disregard and to put her family above you is contemptuous. I'm a woman and I'm going to say it....some wives need to remember that when we marry that our HUSBANDS become number one priority, and that our family of origin must become secondary when push comes to shove.

AARRGGHHH!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 06-20-2005 - 12:38am

I agree Jmedic20, you are between a rock and a hard place. What blows me away is that your wife, instead of being indignant over her siblings who have used and benefited personally from their mother's money and now expecting "equal" payments from the two of you apparently is more worried about looking wealthy to her them. How can she not see that this is anything but fair and equal and they're preposterously out of line to suggest such a thing. I'm thinking however this shakes down the view you now have of your in-laws has to have become so incredibly low that it can never be the same.


A few things come to mind, none of them will probably really be helpful.

1. I'd sit your wife down and say basically what you've said here, including the part about resenting her for what she's doing to your family to keep up appearances for her self-serving siblings.

2. I'd suggest that if she wants to pay them she'll have to get a part time job (which means she'll have to figure out childcare if that's required too) in order to pay it as you're already working two jobs and will not consider a third, nor will you allow the income derived from your two jobs to go towards paying this as it's totally unfair and unreasonable. In other words, if she wants to pay it, she'll have to make it happen herself.

3. I'd suggest calculating the amount of her mother's money that's already been used, divide it three ways, subtract the amount you should have gotten,then tell the siblings they can either pay you the amount you're owed or they can just call it even and consider your portion of the funeral paid.

Whatever I did a part of it would definitely be asking my wife why the he## she was so willing to be treated so poorly by her own siblings and let her own family suffer the consequences of it too. I would be a bit outraged that "we" (your wife, you and the kids) would matter so little to her while satisfying her greedy siblings mattered so much. Question: was her sister paid for her mother's room, board and care?

FYI - if her mother's disability check was a state or federal check once the sending agency realizes she's died, they'll be asking for the check back. If the checks continue to come and are continued to be cashed or continue to be direct deposited into their account and used, when the error is realized it will come with a Fraud charge, and yes, they'll be convicted.





~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Clashing Libidos/Ask the Expert








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 06-20-2005 - 7:38pm

Okay, here is a different perspective...

My mother died 2 years ago from cancer. I would have been more than willing, no matter who has more money or benefitted more or what-not, to pitch in an equal portion for a funerla because she was equally MY mother. And I would do it, not because it would be "fair" or because they had asked or what-not. I would do it to honor my mother. And I can see where NOW would be an AWFUL time to argue over this with your wife. She is reeling from this death and it isn't an easy thing to cope with. If you can't afford $200/month, which I can understand, then tell her you understand this is important to her and that you will do what you can. She needs support, not to feel caught inbetween you and her siblings. And down the road, in another 6 months or so when time has passed, you can ask if she can get a part-time job to help or rediscuss the situation. But right now is not a good time. And that isn't saying your concerns aren't valid or that you aren't right. I just know and understand what it's like to lose your mother. Give her the benefit and chalk it up to grief. It can be a nasty thing and can put someone through misery. Love her and give her the support she needs and it will all work out.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-21-2003
Mon, 06-20-2005 - 11:23pm

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Jen, your perspective was quite helpful. Every time I think I'm ready to bring this issue up with my wife I just can't do it. This month there simply is no extra money to pay "the bill" so I don't know what's going to happen. Her mother's death is still very recent and I feel like a piece of garbage for worrying about money but, like I said, we just can't afford this.

And yes, my opinion of my in-laws is pretty low right now. I skipped a family function over the weekend because I knew if I went I'd make a scene. I don't like having this much anger in me. I had considered going directly to her sister with my concerns since we are talking about my money too and I was totally left out of the decision process. However the thought of talking to her and her husband makes me sick.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 06-21-2005 - 1:13am

Jen, what an awesome point of view. That you so much for posting it. It should have been obvious, but I completely glossed over all compassion for Jmedic's wife and focused completely on the money grubbing that's been going on. As you know I lost my father about ten years ago and it was a completely devastating experience. Just like you suggested, I would have agreed to anything related to him or his funeral and would have been totally incapable of even considering money issues, unfairness or anything of the kind. I was in total overload and would not have been able to consider anything or been able to make any decisions about anything at all, no way. It would have been far too much for me to have even considered. Again Jen, thanks so much for bringing a much-needed point of view. I'm sorry it comes from the experience of having lost your mom and I have to say I'm ashamed that I could have forgotten the level of pain and total feeling of being overwhelmed that can overtake you during such a time.





~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Clashing Libidos/Ask the Expert








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 06-21-2005 - 1:33am

Jmedic, I'm glad you're still around and I'm glad you got the chance to read Jen (Imasillynut)'s post. It's a very important aspect that was completely disregarded by the others who answered your post. Jen's response made me wonder a few other things and look at a few other possibilities, though I doubt they'll be very appealing to you.


You indicated your wife basically said "shut up and pay it", is this typical of her or out of character? If it wouldn't be her usual stand I think that pretty clearly says she's deeply affected by her mother's death, overwhelmed and needs to do what she feels is right to do right now. If that's the case, it has nothing to do with what I suggested (staying on an even financial status with her siblings) and has everything to do with honoring her mother the only way she can see to do that right now. Depending on your answer to this question, how you choose to proceed with this may change a lot.


I know you're not thrilled with the idea of talking to her siblings right now and honestly, I don't think it would be right to talk to them any more than it would be right to talk to your wife -- they're in the same shape as she. I know this is no better for you, but how about talking to her siblings spouses? Assuming they're not as emotionally attached, they're likely in the same emotional state as you and are able to discuss things. Maybe you could talk to them and explain things to them, flat out tell them that you want to honor your wife's desire and she's in no condition to discuss the matter right now (and likely won't be for many, many months to come if her state is like mine was when my father died) but that money is tight (they know that you work two jobs and she doesn't work, they know money's tight) and not only do you not know how you'll make the monthly payment, it just plain cannot be made this month at all. I don't know, but I'd think that they'd be able to see that the money they used to add onto their house is an asset that should be factored in, it upped the value of their home too, so it's money in the bank for them, so to speak. I asked before if her sibling received a monthly payment for their mother's room, board and care while she lived there; if not, it could be argued that the amount was owed them for what they did for their mother and they certainly should receive a fair amount for that. What would happen if you just told her siblings spouse that you flat can't pay your portion right now but would be willing to discuss it at a later time. If this is as sticky as it sounds on the outside, you may need an attorney to figure this out and find what's fair and equitable for all parties. I assume there was no will or inheritance?


Let us know, Jmedic, there may be more we could suggest with more information and understanding of the situation.





~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Clashing Libidos/Ask the Expert








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-21-2003
Tue, 06-21-2005 - 5:26am

"You indicated your wife basically said "shut up and pay it", is this typical of her or out of character? "

She said that this was something that we had to do. The fact that we can't do it is not relevent to her. She wasn't yelling and screaming when she said this, but she was rather abrupt in ending the discussion. Is this typical? Yes and no. We've had dealings with her family before and my assessment is that she allows them to walk all over her. When dealing with her brother, sister, and ex husband she more or less will do whatever they want. Example: her brother and his wife were renting a home. They purchased their own home and arranged for us to take over their lease with the landlord's approval. This worked out well for all parties. We signed a lease and we were scheduled to take over the property two months later, Dec 1. Her brother didn't move out of the house until the week before Christmas. The reason? His new carpeting was on backorder and he didn't want to move in until it was installed. Yes, we payed the rent for the month, no we did not live there, no he did not pay us back. I was furious, but my wife wouldn't let me call the landlord who lived in another state anyway. He left several large items in the house as well. Kept saying he was coming for them eventually. He never did. Last year when we moved out I had to pay to get rid of them (exercise equipment and a stove).

"but how about talking to her siblings spouses?"

I really don't feel that would do any good. The spouses are part of the problem as well. These people look out for themselves first.

"I asked before if her sibling received a monthly payment for their mother's room, board and care while she lived there"

We don't know. Their mother recieved a social security disabilty check each month. She had no bank account so they cashed the check. As we understand it they "gave" her money as she needed it. But again, we really don't know much about this as no one really talked about it. I can tell you that after the checks started coming her sister built the addition, bought a large above ground pool, bought two new SUVs, a motorcycle, and two kayaks. Taking care of my mother-in-law didn't seem to be a financial burden. As far as their mother's care, my wife took her to most of her radiation and doctor's appointments. She was able to care for herself up to the point of her death. I should also mention that my mother-in-law functioned as a live in babysitter for her daughter's two children. That didn't change unitl a few months after her cancer diagnosis. My wife and her brother have had numerous conversations in the past about the above situation. They both felt the their sister was using their mother's money for themselves. Neither one ever confronted her about this. I beleive they both felt guilty because they were not in positions to help their mother so perhaps they felt they should just keep quiet about it. Perhaps that feeling of guilt is part of the reason why my wife is so adament about paying for this funeral. She has no reason to feel guilty. She did more to help her mother when she was sick than anyone else. And with me at work and three kids to contend with it was no easy task, trust me.

The bottom line is that paying this money will cause us real financial problems, it's already happening. My children are not going to suffer a more difficult life so a my wife's greedy sister can have an even bigger house.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-29-2003
Tue, 06-21-2005 - 10:15am

Reading your last post only confirms my first hunch. Your wife kowtows to her family of origin, even if it puts her own family at risk. Maybe its out of fear, maybe its out of some screwed up values she was raised with. At any rate, you indicated that this funeral expense is putting your family in financial danger. You CANNOT allow this to happen. Its time to put your foot down and have a frank discussion with everyone. Yes, feathers will be ruffled. Yes, noses will be put out of joint. Yes, some in the family will try putting a guilt trip on you or your wife. So what? Your wife is clearly not thinking rationally, so you have to step in and take control of this situation.

I also disagree with the philosophy that having an elaborate funeral is showing respect for the dead. Your wife demonstrated the best kind of respect for her mother when she cared for her while she was ALIVE, when it really counted.

Its time to buck up and grow a spine. If this causes a rift between you and your in-laws, maybe its for the best. These people sound like bad news anyway.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 06-21-2005 - 11:47am

A $7500 funeral is NOT an elaborate funeral. Actually, if that's the total cost of it, it was quite economical. You'd be AMAZED at the cost of plots, caskets, etc.

And I agree that just going along with the family to not cause riffs isn't the best thing to do. My DH had problems with that with his parents when we first got married. Unfortunately it's so ingrained and they've done this for such a long time that NOT doing it take years and years of learning, just like doing it took years and years of doing.

If it's really, truly going to be such a hardship for you (and $200 a month is steep when you are on a tight budget), then I suggest you sit your wife down and tell her that you know she loves her mother and wants nothing more than to honor her by helping to pay for the funeral. Then tell her you know that she loves her children and that she doesn't want them to suffer from losing the extra money that you NEED. And ask her to help you accomplish both. You have to be severely calm and totally non-attacking, and try really hard to pick a good day, though a not too bad day would work too.

And I do understand about sisters who make more money and don't seem to grasp that others don't. I have one of those. But I was raised NOT to kowtow so for me the solution seems easy. But to expect your wife to do something totally out of character right now and stand up to her siblings.... I think putting it from "this is going to be a problem for our kids" will be the ONLY way to get through to her. I know as a mother I would do ANYTHING for my kids...

Good luck. I don't envy you.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 06-21-2005 - 9:37pm

I didn't make myself very clear, Jmedic. When I asked if this behavior was typical for you wife, I meant does she generally call the shots (at least where her siblings are concerned), "laying down the law" if you will, telling you what you will do. I was asking in order to gauge whether her telling you basically to shut up and pay it was life normal or whether she was reacting out of emotion due to her mother's death. I can fully see saying in a calm, even manner "please just do this" because she feels she needs to do it for her mother and/or because she's too overwhelmed to begin to consider whether it's fair or not. Since she's talked to her brother in the past suspecting their sister of using mom's money for her own gain, I'd say her response is likely driven by emotion, she's not up to dealing with fairness or money-grubbing issues.


When I suggested going to the spouses, it wasn't to ask for their help, it was to tell them straight up, we can't do this, period. My thinking was let the "unaffected, level thinking spouses deal with it, and I don't mean to suggest you're cold, uncaring or unaffected by your mother-in-law's passing. I hope you understand what I mean here. I personally wouldn't be above pushing it a little if brother-in-law objected to your announcement. I'd remind him of all the extras he's gotten as a result and I'd remind him of the month's rent you'd paid for him as well as the garbage you had to have hauled off. If worse comes to worse, I'd tell him he could use the owed rent and disposal as the first several payments for your portion of the funeral and from there checking mom's assets will be in order.


I do agree with Jen too, talking to your wife will have to be on a good day and I wouldn't expect a lot from her. I'd also agree that you'll have to be more calm and understanding than you've ever been. In talking to her you'll need to remember that she's in a fragile state and likely won't be thinking as she would if she weren't dealing with her mother's death.


I also agree that this may not be pretty with the family, but really, it sounds like you have zero respect for them anyway (and why would you feel any differently!), so what's to lose by playing straight and telling them what you think and how it is?







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Clashing Libidos/Ask the Expert








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"

Pages