At wit's end. Guy needs woman's advice

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Registered: 03-11-2005
At wit's end. Guy needs woman's advice
21
Mon, 06-20-2005 - 4:04pm

Hello. This is something I think I would need a woman's point of view to understand.

I've been married for 17 years, and we have our host of problems along the way like most married couples do. I normally keep our problems to myself since I don't like to say negative things about my wife to others. I'm sure I have my own faults, and I am always careful that my own faults are not transferring blame to my wife. Because of this, I don't say anything to anybody. But I can't really take it anymore...

Over the years, my wife has been becoming increasingly self-centered and uncaring woman. It seems like everything is about her. She demands so much attention and is not willing to give anything back. She expects me to listen to her personal problems and conflicts going on in her life, but rarely gives me 2 seconds out of her day to sit and listen to something that bugs me without jumping to a conclusion, blurting it out, then moving on to something pertaining to her.

Never asks me about my business, how my day went, and so on. I've worked my rear off the last 6 years building a ranch for her, both financially through my business, and with my own sweat during weekends and evenings. The last 3 months I am doing something for myself and have been studying for an examination, and "farm chores" are on hold. Do I get a supportive wife? Heck no, she is getting increasingly bitter because I'm not planting her precious roses and all the other stuff she is buying and leaving it waiting for me to plant, build, cultivate, etc.

We have one son together, aged 15. We both are still fairly young for children of that age. He was gone yesterday (Father's Day) on a trip. He felt bad, but I said it would be OK. My wife spent yesterday making me feel miserable, didn't say one word about "Happy Father's Day". This is from a woman who wants to be treated like a queen on Mother's Day from husband a son alike. I don't remember a worse day in my recent history and had a heaviness that would not go away. Today I am getting the cold treatment, probably because I didn't give her enough attention yesterday (I was not in a good mood). So again, it's about her.

I've come to wit's end and don't know how much more I can take. I take vows seriously, but now am starting to think some crazy things about affairs and leaving one day and never coming back. How much can one person give without getting anything back? I have friends that pamper their wives, but they get pampered back, and I am starting to get very envious. The temptation for extramarital activities isn't about sex at all; it's about feeling appreciated.

Is this a doomsday scenario coming up? Any input would be appreciated.

P.S. Talking to my wife about this will not work. Here is another of her major faults. She cannot be wrong about anything. About once every few weeks I have to put up with "how I do this, how I don't do that, why do I do this, why don't I do that." Bring up anything wrong with her is a big mistake. At first I tried arguing with her, but that doesn't work, so I just learned to let it slide.

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Avatar for northwestwanderer
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 06-20-2005 - 7:21pm

I think it's time to let her know that you are seriously thinking of ending your marriage if things don't improve, and ask her to work on the marriage with you in couples counseling.

You might also try reading the book "Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" by John Gottman and see if you can get her to read it as well, but unless she recognizes how serious your problems are, she may not be willing to do so (she still may not be willing but then you'll know there's no point in trying anymore).

Sheri

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Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 06-21-2005 - 2:05am

Welcome, Imaslick1 ~

I have to agree with Sheri (Northwestwanderer). If you're at the point of considering ending the marriage it's time to inform your wife of the state of your relationship and the level of your unhappiness and dissatisfaction and ask her to join you in marriage counseling. Like Sheri said, it may not do any good, but if it doesn't you'll know you've every opportunity to make it work and will know without a doubt there's not much point in staying. Honestly, I don't know why you'd or anyone else would be willing to stay in a relationship as you described, there's no partnership, no relationship, nothing to stay for. I wouldn't advocate an affair, it won't change the state of your marriage, you'll simply be a cheater in a bad marriage instead of taking the high road, being honest and above-board, allowing everyone to continue to be respectable, honest people. Games, deception and dishonesty won't do anything but make you and your situation worse. I think your son is an important consideration in this too. Not just in the example you set by having an affair, and the potential of losing your son to what he may think of you if an affair were discovered (at 15 he likely has some very set beliefs on the subject) but also in what he views as "normal" adult life. He sees you and your wife as examples of what he should expect and strive for in his own adult life. Assuming you want more than the relationship you have for him, you'll need to do something to change it, either therapy to improve your marriage or end it to improve everyone's quality of life, to show him that this is not the way to live.

I don't imagine this will help, but I'll toss it out there anyway. I know you said arguing doesn't work, but what about not arguing? Father's Day, for instance, what's wrong with pointing out the difference in how she expects to be treated and the way you were treated. If she gets angry, don't get angry back. Calmly tell her she can get as mad as she wants, but the facts are the facts, she wouldn't accept being ignored on "her" day and you both know it. Then leave it alone. If she gets angry because you didn't do the work she expects you to do, point out what you do, state it as a fact, refuse to get drawn into a fight and leave it at that. Tell her she can get as mad as she wants but it doesn't change the facts and it doesn't change your feelings on the matter. In other words, I don't think you have to argue with her to get your point across. She may get upset, but she'll find it hard to fight by herself. You might also find Ten Rules For Fair Fighting and Verbal Fencing With Someone You Love helpful in communicating with your wife. They can also be found in the Information and Resources section of the board.

You should have to take giving without getting back, no one should. That's not companionship, partnership or my idea of living at all. Life should be enjoyable and your spouse should be your partner in life, not that every day is going to be heaven, but the vast majority should be mutually satisfying to say the least.





~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

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"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
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Registered: 03-11-2005
Tue, 06-21-2005 - 1:50pm

Thank you for your response. You made excellent points, especially about the affair bit and my son. He is probably the #1 reason I continue to endure this. He is well-adjusted and thus far has stayed out of drugs and alcohol and most other traps that ensnare teens.

The conclusions I have made is that she must either see what she is doing and stop, or else this marriage is basically over. Counseling is not an option. Talking and discussing between her and myself is not an option. To her, I am the problem, end of story. We've had plenty of hot arguments when I try to bring things up in the past, and I don't back down, but things always end up worse. She insists on saying some extremely hurtful, something that really cuts to the core, which strikes at the jugular. Or she breaks something when she gets really mad. She's broken pictures, glasses, her cell phone, she's put holes in the wall with a phone and a vase. She storms out of the house and drives our car at top speed down the road. She's said she was going to kill herself a couple of time by ramming the car into a pole. And to think most of the time it started by me bringing up something for "discussion".

So, I'm in my own hell here. I don't really bother bringing anything up anymore about her. It's too expensive!! I let her have her moments where she can nag and complain and I just let it go in one ear and out the other. I think she a control freak.

Well anyway, I know you hear more than your share of problems, so I won't take up any more disk space with mine. Thanks for being an "ear". At least by letting some of this out, it clarifies what my next step will be. Thirty years from now I don't want to be rocking on the front porch wishing I handn't cheated myself from trying to find my true soul mate.

Regards.

Avatar for ddnlj
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 06-21-2005 - 3:01pm

Wow, you wife must be the female counterpart of my ex-husband. The world had to revolve around him. It still does even though we're divorced. And like you, I learned to let things slide because it was easier than arguing. After 17 years of that I lost my sense of self, and that lack of appreciation and consideration led me into an affair that I regret. Not because it helped bring about the demise of my marriage, but because I was so emotionally starved that I jumped at a chance for a little attention and affection, even if it was with someone I would have not normally been interested in.

I wish I could give you some positive advice, but unless your wife is willing to meet you halfway you're going to continue feeling as though the scales are tipped unfairly in her favor. Unless she will agree to marriage counseling and understand that marriage is not only take, but also give, then nothing will change.

I will give you this piece of advice. Divorce is very, very hard on teenagers. My son was 13 when his father and I split. It has not been easy for him. He's had his share of issues, and it's been me who's had to deal with those issues. His father bailed out of his life and hasn't seen him in 6 years. It's tough enough dealing with teenagers who are emotionally charged anyway, just because that's the way kids that age are. But throw in something volatile like divorce and it throws them a curve that many of them can't deal with very well.

But if you feel you've gone above and beyond the call of duty in your marriage, and you feel you've put in every effort to make it work and your wife is reluctant to make the necessary changes, then what do you do? Do you live the rest of your life being miserable? Life is too short for that. I say make every effort to save your marriage, but you also have to know when you're beating a dead horse. It takes two to make a marriage work and one person can't carry the entire load.

Hopefully some counseling may help. Maybe if you let your wife know that you are feeling unappreciated and that you don't think you can continue the marriage under the conditions its in, she might recognize what's happening and try to change. Good luck to you.

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Tue, 06-21-2005 - 9:21pm

You're not taking up anybody's disc space, we're all here because we want to be. Stay and bounce this around as long as you'd like. short or long posts, they're all just fine.


I have to say that to my way of thinking staying in this marriage as it is is every bit as bad, dangerous, wrong, **fill in the blank** for your son as an affair would be, if not more. He's being groomed to fill your position in his own adult life. He's watched your performance and it's what he uses as his example of how to deal with adult relationships. He may dislike what his mother does to you (I don't know that) or he may not seem to notice at all, but he'll look for a woman who's like mom because that will be his level of comfort. He may hate how she is and maybe how you respond (or choose not to respond) but the role he's ready to step into is the one you provided. He won't know how to discuss a problem constructively or compromise, he hasn't picked up any of those skills from watching the two of you. He knows mom screams, blames, says awful things, throws, etc. and you say nothing and go about your business. You can teach him better relationship skills, respect, compromise, etc. on your own than you'll ever be able to do living as you are.


I don't quite understand what you're thinking in saying that you want your wife to realize that she's been wrong and be ready to change but that counseling is out of the question. Why not therapy? Do you really think she'll be able to completely transform herself on her own? Do you really think the two of you will be able to find a way to communicate and rebuild after years of abuse without professional help? In the portion of your response that you were talking about counseling you said again that talking and discussing was not an option. That confuses me, you expect her to change but don't expect to ever really communicate with her again? If you're saying what I think you're saying, that you want her to stop her abuse but don't care to have a verbal relationship with her, what's the point? Going through the motions of living with someone that you have no relationship with? That won't help you, her, or your son. And frankly, with what you described about the way she handles her anger, the destruction and threats conveniently aimed at holding you hostage (and to blame should anything happen to her -- you wouldn't be to blame, you know) are indicative of some real mental health/personality issues. If I read you right, you're basically saying the marriage is over, period, but I'd like to know if I've misunderstood and I'd like to understand what it is you meant.


I agree with DDnlj that divorce can be very difficult for teenagers, but bear in mind too that there are plenty of teenagers that wish their parents would separate; they don't like living in the battle zone, whether it's a verbal uproar or a silent, cold war either and often are quicker than their parents at seeing that separation is the best for all involved. I've known both kinds of kids. Whether your son is for a divorce or not, he's not intellectually capable of recognizing what's best for him in the long run, that's what parents are for. Regardless of whether he's for or against it I would absolutely get him in counseling.


I absolutely get what you're saying about not wanting to be rocking on the front porch wishing you hadn't cheated yourself. My grandparents lived together for 70 years and absolutely hated each other. Growing up watching them "get along" but obviously hold each other in contempt played a part in my ending my first marriage. I knew I didn't want to end up like them. When I'm an old woman I want to look back at my life and smile, I don't want to be like my grandmother who only had years of daily hate, contempt and bitterness to look back on. That's no life, that's an existence. And merely existing is a waste of your life. No one should settle for that.





~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Clashing Libidos/Ask the Expert








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 1:15am

Why is counseling not an option? Has your wife said she won't go? Have you made it clear the marriage is over if she isn't at least willing to try (and I agree with 2ndlife, it's HIGHLY unlikely that she's going to be able to change on her own)? If not, I would urge you to do that before you leave, if only for YOUR peace of mind down the road (especially if the divorce proves difficult for your child), so that you can really say to yourself, I tried everything I could.

Sheri

Avatar for ddnlj
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 9:02am

I didn't read this post yesterday, and your description of your wife has led me in a different direction from what I posted yesterday. Your wife does not sound well. Normal people do not throw things, break objects or speed off in anger in the car. Unless your wife has been this tempermental and angry all her life, then there is something else going on. Her anger and emotions are out of control. You're getting the brunt end of this because you're available and an easy target, but I wonder now if she truly means any of it or if it's just uncontrollable emotional outbursts.

Has your wife seen a psychiatrist? She should also see an endocrinologist to have hormones and body chemistry checked. Something doesn't sound right, and I think there may be more to this than just her being a *itch. She could have some form of depression or a serious hormonal imbalance.

Before you make any serious decisions about the future, please talk to a psychiatrist. Explain her symptoms and see what they say. The next step will be convincing her to see a professional, but this is where you might use the ultimatum. Either she see a professional or the marriage will be in serious jeopardy.

Yes, it's easy to see things from your aspect. You're taking the abuse and it's not pleasant, but make sure there's not more behind your wife's behavior than just her simply being difficult to live with. If there is a physical problem that can be controlled with medication, you might get your wife back and save your family.

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Registered: 03-11-2005
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 2:27pm
Sheri, counseling has never been an option and it never will be. We've had problems before (not as serious as this) where I suggested that we go to our pastor, or even a trained counselor. She doesn't want to air our dirty laundry in front of somebody that knows us (to avoid the temptation to gossip), and she hates psychology and psychologists and all the goofy stuff they apply. The only thing that works is to let her vent and verbally assault me with what I do or don't do. It used to really bother me, but thinking about something else and maybe telling her she's wrong about this and that, that such and such is not true, and other empty words gets us through the crisis and buys me several weeks of peace before the next incident.
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Registered: 03-11-2005
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 2:43pm

Bingo! Hormones...

She does claim hormones quite a bit. I do know that starting a week before her period I need to be Mr. Wonderful or else there will be hell to pay. I've had to sit my son down quite a few times and 'splain the facts of PMS when he's come in crying after she has given him the 3rd degree for doing really nothing.

You know, I can really take that. I can take 4 or 5 days out of the month tiptoeing around her. But what I cannot take is the manipulation the other 25 days. Today we've discussed the Father's Day riff we had , since we hadn't spoken to each other for 4 days. I told her I was really down that day. I had no father to call, and problems with my eldest son (who is grown and left the house) meant he would not be calling. My youngest son was not home, but did call in the morning that made me feel better. But when my wife did not acknowledge me, that put me back into my down mood. I was not really feeling well physically that morning, which made matters worse. OK, so we were late for church, finally she came down and we rushed out the door. I noticed she was wearing a new skirt, and I said "Nice skirt", but I did not ooh and ahhh over it. That was the start of why she ignored me all day. Once more, it's all about her.

We'll see how this works out. At the moment it doesn't look so good.

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Registered: 03-11-2005
Wed, 06-22-2005 - 2:57pm

ddnlj,

Wow, reading your first paragraph, I thought we have parallel marriages. I am still trying to figure out what this need is of hers that prompts her to do and say the things that she does. Why she can never come up to me and say "You know I have been thinking about it, and I realized that I don't do and I'm sorry. I will try from now on. Will you forgive me?" It's never, never that way.

I'm not a psychologist, but I have my own theories. I have been pretty much successful in most everything I have done and am pretty smart. My wife never finished high school, but got her GED later on. This has never made a difference to me since she is street smart and reads a lot and I can hold intelligent conversations with her. But she has failed in just about everything she has tried in her life, or never gave anything enough time to fail before quitting. I've encouraged her until my face turns blue, but she has a loser mentality. She even calls herself a loser, but she won't do anything to change it. It may be frustrating for her, but she doesn't realize how frustrating it is for me. Once my youngest leaves the house, then what is going to do with her time? I work out of the house, and it is frightening to think of. I think she gets some sense of power and self-worth by controlling or attempting to control her husband and child. My stepson, who she took care of for 10 years of his life, left the house hating her. My parents hate her. The pressure she puts on those around her do nothing but repel them.

Or so the theory goes...

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