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Opinion Poll
| Sat, 07-30-2005 - 12:11am |
Hello, I'm new here to this board!
I would like your opinions please. If any men read this and would like to give their perspective I'd welcome it as well.
You and DH are getting ready for an day or an evening out. You get into a bad fight. Do you still keep your plans with your man because, plans are plans, and having a good weekend (because work is so stressful) is more important than your relationship problems?
Or you would rather stay home to resolve your relationship problems first than risk going out and fighting in public, or maybe you don't want to be near him at the moment, at least until he's apologized?
I've already asked my girlfriends, but I'm curious as to how others handle this situation.
Thanks for participating!

But, on the outside I'd say going out together because ""having a good weekend (because work is so stressful) is more important than your relationship problems? "" doesn't cut it. You're not going to have a good time out if you're going through the motions but very angry.
If you're so angry that you're not able to put it aside and truly have a nice evening, there's no point in going in my book. And -- if you're staying home to resolve it, you're doing a positive thing for your relationship AND your weekend, because the rest of your weekend isn't going to be very good if you spend it seething.
I take it this happened to you and you and your husband disagreed on how it should be handled? What happened? How did you handle it? Which was your preference?
And welcome to the board, by the way! ;)
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Understanding the Opposite Sex
Edited 7/30/2005 2:03 am ET ET by cl-2nd_life
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I might be willing to put off the argument to save the evenings plans, but I would not put off the relationship problems. If I went out that night, I'd still make time to discuss the issue the next day or once we are both calm, I would still consider marriage counseling if that was appropriate. I don't think it's either/or, I think you can salvage the evening and make the best of it and without putting the relationship issues on the back burner.
>>>Or you would rather stay home to resolve your relationship problems first than risk going out and fighting in public, or maybe you don't want to be near him at the moment, at least until he's apologized?<<<
It's hard to say without knowing the real issue here, a lot of what I might say could depend on that. But in general I don't think you can stay home one night and resolve a very big relationship issue, it sounds like it might take more effort than one nights discussion anyway. And I think there can be a benefit to putting a fight on hold until you have time to think about it and can discuss it more rationally. Fighting it out in public is something I can't see myself ever doing, and that indicates a bigger issue with overall communication that definitely would need work (and could not be 'resolved' by not going out into public). If tempers flare so badly that one of you can't bite your tongue until a more appropriate time or place, then I'd definitely suggest counseling.
Thank you all for your comments.
This has been an issue with us since we were dating. When we get into an argument...and we do fight over the stupidest things and everything...I don't feel much like going out. 1) I don't see the sense in wasting money on going out when we aren't going to enjoy it. 2) I depise fighting in public, but he won't hold back his temper.
3) If I'm upset with him and I don't feel like doing things with him.
The fights can range from his hot temper and abruptness with me, or demanding and nit picking. This most recent fight was because I went out of my way to make him a special dinner because I know he was over worked and stressed. He enjoyed the dinner very much. Then went upstairs and starts shouting at me down the staircase about why I took the phone out of the bedroom? I say, why can't he just ask me to bring him the phone? I would have been more than happy to bring it up to him. Why does he have to yell? Then he demanded a reason why I removed the phone. What? I needed to give him a reason on why I took the phone out of the bedroom? I said, that is a very outrageous request to demand why I took the phone out of the bedroom. Granted he had very little sleep that week, but I still think you can control your temper and keep things on an even keel when someone has been going out of there way to make things nice for you. These are most of our fights. That and because I feel I always bring home a B- with him never an A. It doesn't really hurt my self-esteem, I just want him to say he's happy with something than always finding something wrong with everything. To top it off he's always excessively late and doesn't know how to prioritze. We were 45 mins. late for dinner at his friend's house and he still wants to run his car through the car wash???? We are always racing everywhere we need to get to because he's always late. If I say anything he tells me to quit nagging him and he'll go even slower. If I ask him not to drive so erratic because we are late, he'll drive even faster. I'm painting a really pretty picure of him aren't I? He drives everyone who knows him well enough nuts. But people love him because he's also the big teddy bear type, but he can also be a grissley.
The events range from just us going out to dinner, meeting friends for dinner, a wedding, etc.
He says I am immature to cancel plans even if it's just us. I say my feelings and what is going on in our relationship is more important than any plans we have. I just want him to speak to me respectfully, not every discussion needs to be an argument. His point is that our lives are so stressful that it's more important that we enjoy our weekends when we can. And he won't apologize. I say if he is talking down to me...no, I don't want to be his partner in any activity. He thinks it's a way for me to punish him. I say, he's definitely not getting my point. On the otherhand, once he's had a drink and a good dinner he's happy and relaxed and our lives are so much calmer. He'll eventually even apologize for his behavior and says he'll improve...but, here we are 10 years later....
We did try a marrige encounter program, but I do think we need further counseling. We think he may have ADD. I read that spouses of ADD partners need counseling too because of the frustration of living with someone with ADHD. He really just needs to learn how to relax more from work and not use me as an emotional punching bag. On days things are calm with him I do see our lives as being so much easier. But, right now we can't go to counseling because he's in the midst of switching departments at work and has too much on his mind as it is. I'll have to wait until early winter maybe. Until then, I may attend an ADD-spouse support group until he can join me.
Thanks for listening! And for your opinions!
Edited 8/1/2005 10:47 pm ET ET by bluebelle613
Please re-read your explanation and tell me how staying is good for you and how this relationship is what you want. Is this what you envisioned when you dreamed of your perfect relationship? Does the typical scene you live with spell harmony, partnership, good relationship? I'm sorry, Bluebelle, but being apologized to eventually only to have it happen again and again is not acceptable or worthwhile. It says he's not really sorry, not enough to do anything different next time. He prefers to continue to act/react exactly as he chooses and you are expected to live with it, period. Is there growth in your relationship? I doubt it, as it's hard to grow when you're stuck in the same cycle and you describe being stuck in the same cycle.
I hear you excusing it with ADD. Sorry, but I've never known anyone with ADD (and I know quite a few) who have terrific tempers, lash out or expect other to follow their jumping thoughts and actions. They also don't terrorize people by doing exactly what they ask not to have done (go slower when asked to hurry, go faster when they're asked to slow down), in fact, ADD dictates that they are driven by their changing thoughts and attention, they don't do the opposite of what's asked to "getcha" they go slow when they're asked to hurry because they got distracted and they hurry up when they're reminded that's what they're supposed to be doing -- or they continue to go slow because they're still focused on whatever it was that grabbed them. But they don't take revenge out on others for it. If ADD is his problem, attending ADD-spouse support would be great, but first and foremost, he would need to address the issue himself. He would need to take responsibility for his disorder and work to control it. My son (17) is ADD. I have friends whose husbands are ADD.
What you do describe is very possibly emotional abuse. Never quite good enough. Demands to tell him why you've done this or that. Speeding up when you're asked to slow down, slowing down when you're asked to speed up. I'm sure you don't agree and I'm sure you think my thought is way out of line, and maybe it is. Verbal and emotional abuse are hardest to recognize, even when you're in it. Many don't realize theirs were abusive situations until they're out of them, looking back. Yelling doesn't seem "so bad", there are no bruises, no broken bones. Verbal and emotional abuse, however, have been found to be more damaging than physical abuse. I'd ask that you take a look at a few links, just to check it out:
Signs of Potential Abuse: Need to Know
General Characteristics of Verbal Abuse
Power of verbal abusers reality
These come from Domestic Abuse Board’s Homepage , a site you should check out, there is a wealth of information there, and lots more informational articles than I offered. It was there, reading the links, even those who didn't seem to be about verbal abuse, that I realized my previous marriage had been verbally and emotionally abusive. I was dumbfounded to say the least. I thought lots of things about the chaos and confusion, but abuse was never in my radar whatsoever. Please also consider checking out the Dealing With Domestic Abuse board. There you'll find a great group of women who have been or are in abusive situations of all kinds and two great cl's too. Post your latest explanation for their thoughts or just read and lurk if you're more comfortable. But do check it out. Another website to gauge your relationship health on is here:
Is Your Relationship Healthy?
Ten years, honey. My God. Ten years of living like that. I was with my husband for 17 years before I finally realized that I had been so focused on "helping" him change that I hadn't realized it had been 17 years since things had been good. That's when I realized how futile my goal was and how my focus had acted as blinders to keep me from getting a perspective on the reality I was living. Ten years is a long time to spend like that. For the record, my ex's friends, co-workers and family all thought he was a wonderful guy, they told me how lucky I was to be married to him. You may not know that that is very common in abusive relationships. They put on a great front for everyone else. They save the ugliness for you.
Okay. So you say it's not abuse? Fine. If what you're describing isn't abuse it's a situation in which the two of you aren't right for each other, don't match up well, don't click. You're never good enough, always disappointing, never quite what he wants. That doesn't say a good match. He's angry, demanding, frustrated by what you do. That doesn't say a good match. You keep waiting for him to say he's happy with something, but it doesn't come. That doesn't say good match. So why are you there, beating your nice, good head against a brick wall for someone who clearly is not happy with who you are, what you do? Because sometimes he's nice? Because his friends say he's nice when he isn't driving them crazy? Unfortunately, you can't just live with him or just be with him on those sometimes he's nice, you've got to deal with the whole package. I'm sorry, but if what you describe happens 2% of the time and the rest of the time he's nice, it wouldn't be worth what that 2%. It's not what anyone should put up with.
You're staying what, because he might change? He hasn't changed while you've been together, right? So what makes you think he's going to change? He doesn't indicate he's going to change. He's sorry (at least at some point he apologizes), but it doesn't stop him from doing the same thing again. He's an adult. He knows what he's doing, he's aware of how he's treating you, what he's saying. Not only is he capable of controlling himself, he's capable of taking steps to change. But he hasn't, and it doesn't appear he's interested in that. In fact, he's focused on what you're doing wrong, that you hang onto things too long, that you don't get over things. That's not taking responsibility for his actions, that's putting all the blame on you. That's refusing to take responsibility.
Sweetie, what you describe is not an issue about "putting anger aside and having a great weekend", it's about a guy who treats you lousy, acts however he wants and expects you to accept it and like it. It's not about working on it later, you've been dealing with this same attitude and issues for ten years. This is a pattern, a cycle and it's not acceptable. This is about being expected to accept whatever he dishes out without complaint, not being affected by his awful words and actions and pretending it didn't happen. Sorry, but that's not possible and it's sure not healthy. I know I've thrown a lot at you. I hope you think about it.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Crisis Center: Rape and Suicide
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Your response seems very angry and not to mention very condesending calling me "Sweetie" and "honey." And it appears that you are taking my situation very personally which does make me a little cautious as to whether you still have some issues of your own to resolve? Another warning sign is that you're asking me whether this was what I dreamed as the "perfect relationship." I do believe you are setting youself up for a lot of disappointment and frustration having such unrealistic goals that no one can match up when you say "perfect." Even happy couples admit they aren't "perfect," who is?
Why do I stay? Not that I owe anyone an answer to that question but myself. Give me a little credit that over the last 10 years that I have put some thought into my own relationship. I stay because as with any relationship there are many facets. Each one very unique. You just have a glimpse to one side of our relationship and his personality. Which I am not saying is not a serious matter, but it’s the other equally good things that keep us together and working on our relationship. You even said that you should look at the whole package and you don't even have all of the informaiton, but you already have it all figured out. If you recall, I asked opinions on a particular situation, not whether I should leave him. But to be honest, I can’t tell you whether we are going to make it another 10 years. However, I am saying that right now we still believe it’s worth trying. I’ve seen too many couples who divorce only after a couple of years. Who barely even try to make it work because it takes too much work. That shouldn’t be the norm, but is for so many people today. Marriage isn’t dating where you just break up because you have some issues that are hard to resolve. And not that I am defending him by any means. Believe me no one knows better than me that he can be difficult and drive me crazy several times a month. And no, I am not denial about anything. I am fully aware of emotional abuse and I do recognize some of the behavior in him and I tell him he needs to keep it in check. But you are wrong that this is a dirty little secret all happening behind closed doors and that he shows his ugly face only to me. He shows his ugly face to everyone when he’s under a lot of stress. And that's the key word here "stress." He shows it to his friends, his family, the waitress, the mechanic, etc. With him, what you see is what you get. He has some good long time friends who love him warts and all, and they wonder how I put up with him at times? His own mother wonders how I put up with him at times?! But the reason he has such a long list of friends is because we all know that he is genuinely a good guy. He doesn’t treat me at all differently in front of his friends or co-workers. If he’s mad at me maybe he doesn’t keep it under wraps until we're in private like I wish he would, but also when he wants to tell me he loves me he’ll say that in front of everyone too. I don’t like that he pushes me at times or others, but he’s even harder on himself all the time. And contrary to what you said, anger outbursts and perpetual lateness, driving fast, stress, procrastination, worrying, disorganization, impatient, low tolerance of frustration, not censoring themselves, and even blaming others are all characteristics someone with ADD can have. Not all of them have these traits but some do. All this information can be found in “Driven to Distraction” by Edward M. Hallowell. But I would prefer we seek our own additional counseling from a trained professional.
When he’s not stressed, he’s actually a very good husband. He is in touch with me always. He likes to call me to tell me about his day or tell me something funny that happened, or just to see how my day is going. I have never had to worry a single day or moment in 10 years about where he is or when he is coming home. We all have our own tolerance threshold. It’s patience with some, with me it’s fidelity. He’s nit-picky and anal, but I have never felt unloved by him or suspicious of his actions. Which is why I said his behavior does not hurt my self esteem, I just find it annoying and something he does need to address.
What do I love about him? We have many deep and meaningful conversations. It is there you find his true heart and soul. I love when tears come to his eyes when he talks about something or someone who touched him and his faith in God. I love that he teaches me how to appreciate simple things like a sunset or a walk around the block after dinner. How he respects older generations because there is so much we can learn from them. How I can hear him and my cat talking to each other when he gets up in the morning. How he slips money into my purse when he thinks I am running low. When he kisses me good night when he thinks I am asleep, or leaves a single rose on my night stand so I will see it in the morning when I wake up. That he loves my mother and walked alongside my elderly father when everyone else in the family walked ahead. How he always wants to help those less fortunate and that he would risk his own life to save someone else. And how when the doctor told me we may never be able to have children and I cried later than night he held me and told me I was the most beautiful person he has ever met in his life.
He does ask me not lose hope in him and that he is a work in progress. And I would say during the course of our relationship I have seen some improvement every year, about 20% overall. So in another 10 years maybe it will be 40%, who knows, but if it is that might be something I can live with. And I am by no means a martyr. I am pretty good at handling my own.
I know my relationship is far from perfect, but I don’t believe anyone’s relationship is perfect. I know that there are couples who get along a lot better than we do and they are very blessed to have found that. But, looking around me, at my friends and family’s marriages, there is not a single person I know that I would trade places with either. Each marriage has it’s own set of problems from infidelity, alcoholism, mid-life crisis, gambling and the loveless marriage. Should each of these couples all get divorced too because it’s not perfect or what they wanted when they entered the marriage? Marriage for most is a struggle, which is why when someone celebrates a 50 year or 80 year anniversary it’s a pretty big deal. And those that say it isn't difficult are being less than truthful. I know there are couples out there somewhere who have been married 20 years and are still perfectly happy, but that is extremely rare and I don't personally know any of them. Each marriage has its own share of secrets and heartahce. If everyone I know with a serious problem got divorced, I don’t think I would know anyone that would still be married today? That’s also not say that anyone who is seriously unhappy in a marriage should or unsafe should stay in it, but isn’t that a matter better left between the couple and not an outside observer who thinks they have all the ansewrs? It's pretty easy to know how someone else should resolve their problems, but have difficulty resolving their own.
I do appreciate your taking the time to counsel me, but common sense tells me I think I should put some things into perspective before I apply it to my own relationship. I don't think I should run out and divorce my husband because someone on a message board thinks I have a lousy relationship not worth staying in. Okay, you know better than me about my own relationship. I don't know your qualifications to give out such advice or well enough to know whether I respect your philosophy on life and if I would follow it. What works for one person does not work for everyone. We are all different people with different backgrounds and beliefs.
I am curious though, since you said you left a difficult husband, although I am beginning to wonder who the difficult person was in that relationship, if you ever did find your dream relationship with the perfect man and that is why you are offering your advice to everyone so they can follow suit. Only you know the truth to that. And if you have found that perfect happiness today, I am happy for you.
Peace.
I'm sorry you were unhappy with my response. Obviously, when you post in a public forum you're apt to get many differing response, some you'll like, some you won't. It's the nature of the beast. I'm also sorry you found my terms condescending. I assure you they were not at all intended to come across in that manner. I fully admit that they are not terms I use on every post, I use them when I feel them -- when I feel someone is in an especially hurtful or difficult situation. Since I have been in a similar situation, if my intend was condescending wouldn't I be putting myself down?
Thanks for your thoughts on my suggesting you think of your "perfect" relationship. You can trade the word "perfect" for "ideal". Of course, nothing is perfect, but everyone should have an ideal set firmly in their heads in order to base their relationships on. Without a good idea of what you want, what you feel is important, what you personally set as musts, dealbreakers and what you expect and demand in way of treatment in a relationship. Without ideals, boundaries and what you believe is appropriate and acceptable in a relationship for you you're not likely to choose well or wisely for yourself. You're not well equipped to move forward in your relationship without a goal in mind to reach, either. Settling for less than what you want and accept shouldn't be an option. No one is perfect, no relationship is perfect, obviously. But striving for better is a part of healthy relationships, resolving issues and moving forward without them. It's a goal that should be shared by both partners, along with individual personal growth.
Please don't take my word for this, but if you're planning to seek counseling, please be sure that the counselor is licensed in abuse. When dealing with abusive situations, it is the only appropriate counseling to seek. Seeking counseling with therapists trained for "regular" individual counseling is more than not recommended, it will cause more damage. Check with the Abuse board, call an abuse hotline or shelter, anywhere they deal with abusive situations and get their advice and opinion.
This is a board of lay individuals, no one here that I'm aware of has counseling training, certainly not me. Since that's the case, we rely on the experiences of ourselves and each other to learn from and to help us find our way in our own relationships. I have found tremendous benefit in learning from the experiences of others. In doing so, often it's possible to skip learning the lessons the hard way, as those who offer their history and experience have.
I'm also sorry you saw my response as angry. Again, you've misread me. Passionate yes, absolutely, angry, no.
I asked you to reread your post, not because I thought you were stupid but because it can be very impactful and eye-opening to re-read your own post and see in black and white, in your own words, what your relationship and your life are like. I cannot tell you how many women over the years have been incredibly impacted by doing that very thing.
Obviously, I do not know your entire situation, I can only respond to what you've written and, I saw, as you mentioned in your response, abuse. You may take offense at my responding to what I saw, but honestly, I wouldn't have been able to sleep nights if I just looked the other way. You can choose not to accept my thoughts and suggestions, that's your prerogative, but to not bring it out and share some of my story, no matter how painful it might be, is something I can't do.
Since you asked, after I asked my husband to leave I was in therapy for quite a while. I did a lot of work on myself to lose issues I had from spending so many years in a dysfunctional, abusive relationship. Like you, I can hold my own, but you can't live in dysfunction without taking some of it in. My children also got therapy. I also did a lot of work in therapy so that I would not repeat whatever it was in me that had me choose an abusive man. Throughout my marriage, when the rage was on, I knew this way of living was not right, that this was not how healthy relationships operated. Getting a solid feel for what my personal "ideals" in a relationship were was very helpful. Actually, the word "ideals" doesn't really fit well in that sense. Ideals sounds like something that would be the best case scenario, not necessarily what I'd end up with. What I did was discover what was important to me in a relationship and set boundaries not to accept less than what I truly wanted. If that meant not having a partner in my life because my standards were too high, so be it, I was fine with that. And yes, I am remarried, three years now. My husband and I were friends for three years before we became romantically involved. Our relationship isn't perfect, there's no such thing. But we do keep our relationship a priority and we actively work to improve it - and ourselves - always. But, do I think the abuse was my fault? No, I know better than that. Abuse is never the fault of the victim, even in cases where the victim fights back, verbally or physically - and it happens all the time, it doesn't make the victim "to blame" or "just as much to blame". Defending yourself is acceptable.
You would not believe how many women, after years of living in situations like yours,want and actually need to hear that their situation is not okay. They welcome it and are relieved to hear it, it is opposite of the messages they've been filled with for years by their boyfriends, s/o's and husbands. If you're happy with your situation, it is your right to choose it. You are the one who defines happiness in your life, no one but you has to live it. My best to you and my apologies for having offended you.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Crisis Center: Rape and Suicide
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"