another issue

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2004
another issue
9
Wed, 08-03-2005 - 7:08pm

Hi...I wrote a few days ago about my bf's unemployment, and you all gave me great advice that I decided to stick to. I have another problem that's eating at me. Like you all know, we signed a lease together last march...so we have till march 2006 to finish up this lease. As far as I'm concerned, if all goes well with everything between us till then, then I assume that we would be either signing another lease together at this place or moving together to a next place. But, I feel his side may be different. The last argument we had (I can't remember what it was about) he said "maybe we just shouldn't live together and next march after our lease is up, we'll move apart (but not break up of course)." And I angrily agreed with him. Well...after the fight 'ended' and we made up, I told him that I love him and I want this to work and I have every intention of living with him again...and I asked him if he did. Well, he said that because of the fight, he thinks he should answer me 'at a later time' because of the fight and he 'just doesn't know.' Well. obviously I'm worried and confused. Sometimes, I'll make a comment like "our next place, lets make sure we have a patio" or something relating to our 'next place' and he doesn't comment either way...like I have a gut feeling that he is still having feelings over the whole thing.

Let me tell you all something else, we've been going to church, and we found out that living together is bad...oops...and he had some feelings on that...like we shouldn't be living together. But, he's fine with us living together and having sex until march...so I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it...just wanted to put it there for you.

So, anyway, ...I'm not sure how to feel, how to ask him, what to expect...there are so many arrangements to be made if I don't live with him and I'll need time. I want to know at least that he has the 'intention' of living together...I mean, if something goes wrong...then something goes wrong...but that would be a break up. In his mind during the fight, ...we would split apart but stay together as a couple. To me, it's a demotion in the relationship. He says that he loves me and wants more than anything to make this work. We have a really good relationship...we fight sometimes but always make up right away. He says that he is dedicated to me and is willing to do anything for me and our relationship. The problem I'm having is I want to talk about this moving thing really bad and I want an answer of at least his 'intention' of living with me. Ugg...this is all confusing but hopefully somebody can understand it and give me some feedback. How can I talk to him about this? Or should I not talk about it at all? I feel that I have a hard time talking to him lately cuz I don't want to fight. But I don't want to feel the doubt and fear that he's going to demote our relationship...and I'm going to be thrown out cuz 'im not good enough' or something. I mean, I am who I am...and he's learning who I am now ...if we split, I'm not going to change...but our relationship will. We've worked out so much and our compromises have really worked for the positive so far. Please, please, please....I need advice so bad. Thank you all for all the honesty that you can give me. Thanks.

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: iamlinkgirl
Wed, 08-03-2005 - 7:18pm

March is a LONG way off this early in a relationship. You might have decided by then that the two of you are not a match. I think you need to be focusing on evaluating him as a partner, not worrying about living arrangements for next year.

How long do you really need to find a place if you're not going to be living together after March? I would think 2-3 months would be plenty, so I wouldn't bring it up until then.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2004
In reply to: iamlinkgirl
Wed, 08-03-2005 - 9:22pm
Hi...ya, I agree with you that I need to be evaluating him as a partner first and foremost. I'm mostly confused and upset cuz I just want to know his intention thus far...I mean...I entered into this lease with the intention of continuing the living arrangement unless something in the relationship falls apart and the relationship ends...and he did feel the same. So, really,...I just don't want him to be in control of the situation and not giving me a clue until he's ready to tell me. I mean, anything can happen I realize...but I just don't want to be in emotional concern about this issue until he lets me know his intention. I want to feel that we are on the same page about things...at least I hope we are. He's more of a day by day person I think...and I'm a planner...I like to know things to prepare for the future (both emotionally and in other matters as far as money). But, in the beginning...he openly assumed with me that we would be living together and that's why this sudden confusion bothers me. I honestly don't know about what would happen to the relationship if he decided to break our current living together situation...cuz I want to move forward, not backwards. It would be different if we had never lived together in the first place...but we did. Thus, it makes right now kinda confusing and weird. I wish I could just relax and not care about if it happens or not...but I really do care. Blah...I guess I'm just venting but I'm not going to say anything to him until I can get my feelings worked through a bit. I still would love some more insight :)
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: iamlinkgirl
Thu, 08-04-2005 - 2:48am

Welcome back, Iamlinkgirl! For those who may not be familiar with Iamlinkgirl's situation, you can find her previous posts here:


pet names...other girls *grrrrr* :)
house guests
unemployed again





~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Crisis Center: Rape and Suicide



Edited 8/4/2005 4:00 am ET ET by cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: iamlinkgirl
Thu, 08-04-2005 - 3:27am

Hi Robyn, I am not going to make you happy with what I have to say, but I'm still going to say it. As far as the living together argument and his hesitation in talking about it goes, I'm wondering how long ago you had this last fight you refer to? If it was very recent, it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to need time to think about it. But, if it's been a while (and you kind of indicate that it has) his hesitation could be one of two things. It could be that he honestly isn't sure he wants to continue living with you or it could be that he's punishing you by letting you continue to think he's thinking about splitting up. That would be a passive-aggressive move. That would make sense considering you've been upset about his lack of employment. If he's tired of dealing with it (even though you've backed off and left it alone) he could be holding this over your head, causing you to worry, and probably treat him just a little nicer in an attempt to make him happy with the relationship. Payback -- and maybe some gratification watching you be the one on the negative side of things for a while. I get the idea that this might be happening based on what you're saying, you're worried and confused. You make comments about your "next place" and with his silence he passively suggests that may not happen. If it's been a while, you are totally within your rights to expect an answer, or to at least discuss the situation. He said it needed to be discussed at a "later date", well it's now a later date and it's time to talk. He may not be sure what he wants to do, but he can talk about it. It's perfectly reasonable to tell him the two of you need to discuss this issue and ask him to pick a time within the next 24 hours to hold that conversation. Needing to know what he's thinking in order to know where you stand is understandable, I think. I know you know this part, but I'm going to remind you anyway. You said, "I want to know at least that he has the 'intention' of living together ". You may not get that. What you'll get is what he really thinks, and he may not intend to continue living together.


I know you won't like this, but I'm beginning to see your boyfriend in a less than favorable light. You said, "we've been going to church, and we found out that living together is bad...oops...and he had some feelings on that...like we shouldn't be living together. " but Robyn, in your March post you said he was religious. If he's religious he knows the general philosophy at the very least. It's no secret that living together isn't "acceptable" per the fundamental teachings of every mainstream religion. If he's religious this isn't news to him. I don't know any adult, religious background or not, that isn't aware that religions don't condone living together. He knew. The fact that he's now wrestling with the morality of living together (or rather the immorality), knows it's wrong, but decides it's okay to continue to live together in sin until your lease runs out in March says one of two things: His character, morals and values are not as solid as he'd like to think they are -- he's willing to compromise his beliefs either for the sake of money (your half of the lease), for the sake of continued sex, or both. Quite frankly, living outside of your morals is pretty hard to do, it causes you to not like yourself very much. It's hard to look yourself in the mirror when you believe what you're doing is wrong. His actions strongly indicate his morals are a matter of convenience for him rather than a real moral or value. Can you see logic in saying, "I'm sorry Father, I've realized having sex outside marriage is wrong. I'll stop in March." True morals and convictions would have you stopping the sin now.


Is it possible your boyfriend is keeping you on the string while shopping for a new girlfriend? It kind of sounds like that's what he might be doing. He keeps throwing these "maybe we will and maybe we won't" things out there, but doesn't commit to anything. His reasons and his actions don't match up. I'm not saying that's what he's doing, but it occurs to me that it seems to be a valid possibility.


I think you should insist on talking, and I think you should think very seriously about what he's showing you in word and in action. Over the last several months you've seen quite a bit that's not at all favorable.





~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Crisis Center: Rape and Suicide








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-12-2005
In reply to: iamlinkgirl
Thu, 08-04-2005 - 3:10pm
Between the unemployment, the not looking for work, now this flip flopping about the relationship, what's the point to staying really? If it was me, I would tell the landlord the situation and see if there is any way out. I might even take an eviction on my credit report before I support a loser.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2004
In reply to: iamlinkgirl
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 5:54pm
Hi...thanks for your response and honesty. I really don't know right now about anything...haha. You make some very valid points...and of course, it doesn't make me feel great, but I definately have some things to ponder that are very important. I did talk to him...and it went bad. We talked last wednesday and it ended up making me feel like an pathetic idiot. He says that because of the communication issues we've been having...aka. some arguments over little things...make him uneasy about forecasting the future. He says that arguing has never been part of his life and he doesn't want to make a committment to living with me until he feels that he can give me a 'true' committment. He has this strict rule of never lying to me...ever. And therefore, he says that what if 6 months come, and he thinks we shouldn't live together...then...I suppose he feels that he lied to me. I say/said bullS**t. Cuz, its true that anything can happen in 6 months..heck, I could decide that he was a jerk and leave or whatever,...doesn't mean that I lied. But I can't make him see that. I wanted to explain to him that I was just looking for an intention about how he feels 'now' about it...but I couldn't make him give me an answer. SO, I took a few days to think this all over and decided that I was going to make a decision. I talked to him friday night and told him that I'm going to plan on moving out by myself in march because I can't wait 'helplessly' for him to give me an answer...I despise that he would have that control over me. I explained to him that if we reach a point in our relationship by then that does contain more promise, love, respect, committment, and desire to be with each other...then that decision will be based on how I feel...not him. I'm sick of trying to convince him that I'm worth it...I need a man to KNOW it about me...and if he doesn't know it...then I'll make the decision for him and be with myself next march. So, that's what has been going on so far...I'll update ya all about what goes down...thank you!!
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
In reply to: iamlinkgirl
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 7:17pm

>>>But I can't make him see that.<<<

I think for now you shouldn't focus now on *making* him see anything, but instead giving him space and forming an understanding of how he views things without your influence. Try to see his POV. If you can see your side and his side, you'll be better able to communicate with him. Also, you will never find a relationship where you and the other person see things the same way. Appreciating the differences in the other person is part of a good relationship, and in appreciating and understanding the differences, you are better able to come up with effective compromises and solutions.

Plus, you can't make him get your POV when you are flat out disagreeing with and completely dismissing his POV.

>>>I wanted to explain to him that I was just looking for an intention about how he feels 'now' about it...but I couldn't make him give me an answer.<<<

From your previous posts, I think he did give you an answer. He said he doesn't know. The problem is you don't want to accept his answer, and you want to force him into 'yes' or 'no' because 'maybe' makes you uncomfortable. My therapist once said that sometimes people get afraid a relationship 'might' not work out, so they do things to sabatoge the relationship. That way the *know* it won't be working out and that feels better than worrying about the maybe. Do you think you could be doing that now?

>>>... I can't wait 'helplessly' for him to give me an answer...I despise that he would have that control over me.<<<

I think this is an issue for you to look at further. You want to be in control. You want guarantees and certainty. It could be that the only way to get certainty is to give up on the relationship. Is that what you want? Is your fear that it end greater than your fear it might work out? Relationships are all about risk and you can't eliminate the risk unless you avoid relationships. Is this guy worth the risk that you could get hurt? Do you want to put energy into making it work, or do you want to put energy into making sure it doesn't work? Right now you are doing more of the latter by forcing him to make decisions he's not ready to make and stating that you are going to make decisions for him if he can't decide.

>>>I'm sick of trying to convince him that I'm worth it...I need a man to KNOW it about me...and if he doesn't know it...then I'll make the decision for him and be with myself next march.<<<

If he really doesn't appreciate you, then I agree, you deserve better. But if the issue is he needs space, he's sick of arguing and he's not sure, then to me that's not necessarily that he thinks you aren't worth it. I think it means that you need to back off the 'discussing next March' and get some books on communicating and focus on how to be together without fighting. You need to have some enjoyable times together, not just frustrating and stressful times. As was previously noted, you have lots of time before next March. If it were me I would not bring up living together at all for 6 months. Put a date on the calandar in January that you'll think about it again, and drop it until that date. Think in your head what you might do and where you might live if things don't work out, but put your energy into communicating better, not talking about the relationship specifically but enjoying each other and determining if the two of you are compatible or not.

Photobucket

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: iamlinkgirl
Tue, 08-09-2005 - 1:07am

I'm not so much in agreement with a lot of what Firstamendment said, and I usually do. I think I see the scene differently than she does; who knows which of us (or either of us) is right.


To me, his stance on not giving you an answer is juvenile and ridiculous. I agree with you that being unwilling to give you an answer because he doesn't want to lie to you is more than weak. My daughter held the same kind of principles when she was 5 - if someone made a statement like "I'm going to the movies tonight" then didn't go due to a change in plans, they had lied to her in her immature black and white world. Your boyfriend isn't 5, he's an adult. You can't "make him" see because he doesn't want to see. He knows, and he knows his excuse is just that -- an excuse - and not a rational or valid one either. But, it seems, it's all he could come up with and he's sticking to it. Instead of trying to convince him otherwise, my response to him would be more along the lines of "I'm not that stupid and neither are you." It sounds to me like he uses this "reason" as a way to continue to punish you. Why would any adult use such a reason instead of speaking openly and honestly about how they're feeling? Especially when he knows this causes you anxiety? The short answer, IMO, is that they wouldn't, unless causing you to twist is exactly what they want.


He says he's not sure about the relationship because of all the arguing that's been happening, that arguing has never been a part of his life and he doesn't want it to be. Valid reason, to be sure. But, you seem to be saying (and maybe I'm misinterpreting you) that he makes you feel small and petty -- and to blame for the arguing. So, what, it's all your fault? You're the only problem here? If he's concerned about the arguing, I'd expect he'd be doing something constructive to resolve the arguing and the issues that cause it. But it sounds like he fully blames you for all of it and plans to sit back and watch to see if you can stop it. In other words, he doesn't plan to do squat about it. He doesn't take responsibility for his part in it, isn't interested in compromising to resolve it and doesn't expect to have to change one iota to accommodate you as a couple, a partnership, a team. He full on expects to be who he is, period, no change or adaptation whatsoever. He's going to remain solid and you're going to have to find a way to be happy with exactly how he is. Either that doesn't say good things about him, or it doesn't say good things about his commitment to this relationship. Coupled with the whole "living together is a sin -- six months from now" bit, I'd say it says he's pretty stuck on believing that everything he thinks is absolutely right, it's others who are all wrong. Why would he want to sit back and watch what happens instead of actively trying to resolve the issues together with you? Not a good trait when you think about a lifetime with a person like this. It would be hard to go through life feeling like the one who's wrong, who's petty and small, the one with all the complaints and issues. You definitely wouldn't be an equal; much less than that.


I do think you're right to make plans and decisions for yourself, it's the part you do have control over, and it's the part you should be controlling. Staying while you continue to ponder who it is you're living with, considering what more time with him would mean, putting more thought into his morals and values and whether they're compatible with yours are good things to do. I would suggest keeping yourself in the thought that you're leaving in March, the longer you stay in a situation, the harder it tends to be to change it. Keeping yourself in the thought that you're independent as of March will help you from feeling you "can't" get there.


One more thing that I really have an issue with. Your argument made you feel petty and small. That just really bothers me. I think if things are a problem for you, they're a problem for the relationship and warrant attention. You should not be made to feel your concerns and issues are small or petty. You should be made to feel that your problems, concerns, issues are important and that he wants to hear them and work through them. If you have a problem, then the relationship has a problem and it should be addressed, not dismissed as unimportant.





~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Crisis Center: Rape and Suicide








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Avatar for ddnlj
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: iamlinkgirl
Tue, 08-09-2005 - 9:34am

I think I remember posting to your unemployment question a couple weeks ago. It sounds like things are getting even more stressful for you.

Judging from what you've written, it just sounds like he's having some second thoughts about the arrangement, but he has to lay low for now because of his job situation. Sweetie, please don't let yourself get taken advantage of. By this I mean, it sounds as though he's toying with the idea of waiting for his personal situation to improve and then split. Whether he's honest enough to hang around until the lease is complete remains to be seen.

He seems to be finding all kinds of reasons to avoid discussing a life with you after March 2006. Church? Well, if it goes against his religion why is not eating away at his moral conscience right now?

You have some valid reasons to feel doubtful. He's left you with the impression that things will change between the two of you in less than a year. That's a pretty heavy load to carry, not knowing what's going to happen in little of 6 months. It's unfair for him to keep you in the dark that way.

Summon all your courage and come right out and demand some solid, truthful answers. If he says he doesn't want to live with you after next year, then you need to make the split now. If he's unable to make the commitment to you now, chances are he won't then either. Detach yourself physically and emotionally from him until you can finish the lease and move (or move him out), or find someone to take over your lease for you. I just have a gut feeling you're going to get hurt eventually. Don't let that happen. HUGS

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket