Confused--am I doing the right thing?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-03-2005
Confused--am I doing the right thing?
10
Sat, 09-03-2005 - 11:56pm
Hello all, this is my first time to these message boards. I have had a LOT going on in my relationship with my fiance Daniel. And, just to let you all know, I am gay. I hope though, that you all look at my relationship with the same courteousy as you do the others on here.
About a month ago I was diagnosed with cancer, and am getting treatment for it, because Daniel and I have a deal, I do not wish to go into details on it. About 3 weeks ago, I found out that Daniel cheated on me. He had left his myspace.com account inbox open on my computer while he was over here. And wow, I was surprised at the messages on there. He had been messaging a guy named Pat. What really struck me was how, on my birthday, Pat had asked him if he was seeing anyone, Daniel said "I am, but I'm not." And keep in mind, we have been engaged since Memorial Day. Also, the things that they were writing to each other, were very graphic, and hurtful to me. Then, after I confront him about this that night, I find out the next day, that he made out with my best friend in the bathroom, at the restaurant at my birthday party. Luckily, that Saturday, he had gone out of town with his family until the next day. Well, he got back, and I went to meet him, and we discussed things. I reminded him of how I have never gone out with a guy that didn't cheat on me, and that he had promised he could never hurt me. We spent about 1 1/2 hours just crying our eyes out at Applebee's. We decided to work on it, and I had told him that I wasn't going to make him stop talking to Brett, because I didn't want to force him to do that, but that I didn't want him talking to him around me, or talking about him, because I was no longer going to talk to him. Also, he made MANY other promises. He has had a few problems keeping them, but he is working on them. But, last Friday, I had gone to pick him up at the library, and two of our friends were there, and then I found out that Brett was there, hiding from me. I did not say a word to Daniel until we got to the restaurant for dinner. Where I just started bawling my eyes out, and told him that with the cancer and not having too much longer to live, that I can't take it. That as long as he talks to, or sees Brett, I can't trust him, and so then I basically broke up with him. He didn't want that. He said before he would never choose anyone over me, so he chose me. He took out his phone, and deleted Brett from his phone. Many things have happened since...but I find myself almost starting to pick him apart, and letting things tick me off easier. I know it's because I am still upset that it happened. I am not mad at him anymore, just the fact that he did that to me. My heart still aches. I just find it so hard to trust him, as he is the only guy I have ever given a second chance. And I told him I am only giving him a second chance because it's different, because I truly love him. He told me that when he cheated on me that at that time, he wanted to be with me, but he wanted an "open relationship" which was something we had NEVER discussed. But he said that now, and since the beginning of August (which I doubt for some reason) he has just wanted to be with me, and nobody else. At the same time that I doubt, I also believe him. I just want this to work, more than anything. And so does he. Some more information: I live in Independence, MO, he lives in Blue Springs, MO...5 minutes away from me. I got a new job in Overland Park, KS. So, I am moving into a townhouse in Lenexa, KS to be closer to it. He is moving in with me. We think that being able to spend more time together, will help us out a lot. And also will help with the trust. Some background info on us: I am 19, and he will be 17 on November 4th, he will be moving in on the 5th, as that is when he can legally move out without parental consent. The reason we don't get to see each other too often is because school is in session, and it kills us both. But in the summer and before school started, we saw each other EVERY SINGLE DAY, and it was amazing. And please, I know we are both young, BUT, I have heard too much about him being too young and blah. I don't care, age is not an excuse, and we should let HIM decide if he is ready for this commitment and all that, so please don't bring up the age in your opinion/advice, if you can help it! Do you all think I am doing the right thing in giving him a second chance? As I have told him everything that needs to be done on his part for this to work out, and he has agreed to them all, and I have told him also though, that he will not be doing this alone. That I will help him, because it does take two. And I have also made some promises, like the cancer treatment. But please, just tell me if you think I am doing the right thing, or just your opinion in general. Because I just can't imagine my life without him... I appreciate it!
Jase
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-27-2004
Sun, 09-04-2005 - 7:54am

Hi, Jason!

I am sorry to hear about your health problems, and the problems you have been having with Daniel, Brett, and Pat. At first I was confused by all this drama, but when you gave your ages, I realized that a lot of it is caused by your youth. Although your love may be true, Daniel's feelings are still those of a very young person, and you are still quite young, as well. Despite his best intentions, Daniel may be too immature to remain faithful, especially with the added stress of your illness.

Living together will give the two of you more opportunities for closeness, but after awhile it may seem too constricting to Daniel, and he may begin to rebel against you as if he felt you were his parent. You may find this too exhausting under present circumstances. Good luck, and please stay open to the possibility of change.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Sun, 09-04-2005 - 10:26pm

Jase, I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

Unfortunately, I can't give you much advice - because everything I'd say would be related to age and maturity. And you've asked for us to avoid giving that advice ;-)

There is, however, a little bit of advice that I can't hold back on: When one is a teen, they are exploring who they are and what they want from life. Something that one may be certain about at age 16, may be way off base by the time one is 17. It's about growing and maturing and finding out who you are.

Being that your boyfriend is the age he is, he's far too young to make promises and deals - and this is exactly why he breaks his promises to you. He's too young to understand the consequences of his promises and too young to see the big picure.

I'm also concerned about your boyfriend moving in with you when he turns 17. What is the situation for him at home? Obviously his parents aren't keen on the two of you living together - but do they support him being gay in general? What happens if (heaven forbid) you get very ill with your cancer? Who will be supporting him while he supports you? Being a carer is no small task - especially for someone who doesn't currently display the amount of commitment needed to sustain a relationship. You are older and more mature - you must think of his needs as well as your own.

I suggest that you make a rule in your relationship which dictates "no promises" to be made till we are at least in our 20s. Try to live for the day.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 09-05-2005 - 1:24am

Hi Jase ~


First of all, I'd like to apologize for taking so long to get to your post. Typically I get to every post by the end of every day, but the weekend (okay, the whole week) has been crazy, I went out Friday night and, if that isn't enough, when I tried to get on last night and this morning I found my internet connection was having problems again.


I hope that you feel more than welcome here. Heterosexual or homosexual, it shouldn't matter. Relationship problems aren't only for heterosexuals, all relationships apply and you have every right to expect to be treated with the same courtesy and respect as anyone else. You mentioned agreements made, but since you didn't specifically say what the agreements were, it's impossible to suggest whether they seem reasonable or workable or not. I will say that a promise not to cheat isn't good enough. What will he do to make sure he won't, your relationship wasn't enough to stop him before, what will stop him in the future? Especially since it sounds like he doesn't necessarily want to stop (saying he wanted to explore open an relationship), how can you expect that this won't continue to be a problem? (See The Truth About the Power of Love )


I am very sorry for your illness and for the situation you find yourself in, facing the problems your having in your relationship is more than you should have to deal with while you cope your illness, to say it's puts you in overload is putting it mildly.


I have to say that I agree with Geo and Aisha, what they said in their posts is true, this issue is a lot about maturity. You're asking Daniel to behave as a mature adult when in fact, he's not. That being said, I also agree with what you said -- age is not an excuse for his behavior; teenagers who are in relationships aren't excused for cheating, they're expected to uphold the same standards and treat their bfs/gfs with respect, which means remaining faithful. If they don't want to be faithful or if they want to break up, they're expected to make that known to their bf/gf before they do anything to violate the relationship. With that in mind, I think what you have with Daniel is someone that has cheated on you not once, but twice, and with different people. I think the chance of him cheating again is very great. There are other reasons that point strongly to the likelihood of continued cheating. Daniel should clearly know that you expect to have and to continue to have a monogamous relationship since the time of your engagement, assuming that when you became engaged it was to be married to each other and be true to each other, to have no other lovers in your life. If that was the understanding, then he also knew his relationships with these other guys was not right. His *excuse* of wanting to have an open relationship doesn't cut it, that should have been discussed with you before he made any moves in any other direction. If he wants to explore or consider a different kind of relationship than the one you two had agreed on, it's absolutely his right to do that, but he needs to make that clear to you first.


I have to say that I'm a little cloudy on the library scene. Since you'd told Daniel that it was okay for him to continue to have contact with Brett, but not around you, I'm not sure whether Brett's presence in the library constitutes another violation of your agreement or not. Obviously, Daniel cannot control Brett's choices and decisions, if Brett is in the library and chooses to stay, Daniel can't force him to leave. But, if Daniel knew you were coming and knew being there with Brett would be a problem, he should have left. He can't control Brett's choices, but he can control his own. If he knew you were coming and was "in on" Brett's hiding, I'd say that's a clear violation and lack of care and respect for your feelings and for your relationship and I'd say it's pretty clear that infidelity will continue. That's not what you wanted to hear, I'm sure.


A couple of things that jumped out at me in your post that I'd like to comment on:
You reminded Daniel that he'd promised to never hurt you. While that's a sweet and romantic promise, it's not very realistic. None of us set out to hurt our partners, but I think it's inevitable that we will in some way sooner or later. I also think that making it okay for Daniel to continue to see and talk to Brett is a mistake. Since Daniel has had inappropriate contact with Brett, if he plans to be true to you and your relationship, he needs to cut all ties with Brett, no talking, no seeing each other, nothing. You won't be able to get past the pain of the infidelity and won't be able to regain any trust if he's continuing to see the guy he fooled around with (whether fooling around went any farther than email or not). Cutting all ties is mandatory, and if he doesn't want to do it, he's telling you he's not all that interested in rebuilding the relationship with you. He'll be telling you he's more interested in his wants and desires and really isn't that interested in what you want or what's necessary for your relationship to be strong or viable. There are some articles on cheating that I think might be helpful for you to read. They're written in a man/woman format, but the information holds true regardless.


Getting Over an Affair
Healing From Infidelity
Recurring Memories of Spouses Affair
Is It Cheating?
Is it just friends or infidelity?

Another board that may be helpful to you is:
Betrayed Spouses Support

I also echo Aisha's strongly concerns about your illness, his supporting you throughout it; that's a very big task for anyone, let alone a 17-year old. I hope you're thinking ahead about that and have some plans in place should that become reality.

Best of luck, Jase







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Sexual Pleasure








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-03-2005
Mon, 09-05-2005 - 2:06am

Thank you all very much. I appreciate everything you have said. Even if it's not what I wanted to hear, I know it's what I needed to hear. yes, I do know he is young, and immature, I just still want to have some hope, you know?

And to let you know, as I thought I put in the post, but the night that I found out Brett was at the library, I attempted to break up with Daniel as I didn't want to make him choose. But, he had told me before that he would never choose anyone over me. So, he took out his phone and deleted Brett's phone number. And, to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't talked to him since. And, I will go ahead and post the agreements we made:

One thing I've had a problem with is that he tends to give his phone number out to every guy he meets online. He says that it's because he hates emailing and prefers the phone. Which, to an extent is true, but I told him I don't know what he's talking about to these guys on the phone, so in order for me to trust him, he needs to stop.

Daniel isn't to email or talk to Pat under any circumstances.

Daniel chose me and knows if he talks to or sees Brett even once, it's over.

Since Brett used drinking as an "excuse" for him coming on to Daniel, neither of us are to drink unless the other is present.

Daniel flirts with/teases other guys quite a lot, and has agreed to limit that because, again, it's a trust issue.

Also, Daniel doesn't like to work/talk things out, but has realized that this isn't something that will just go away on it's own...and that unless he was willing to talk it out and work on it, that the relationship was going to be over. So, he has agreed to talk about any issue that needs to be talked about in order for our relationship to work. That's pretty much it. I honestly don't think they're too unreasonable...and neither do my close friends...but maybe it's just me?
Jase

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2004
Mon, 09-05-2005 - 12:31pm
First of all- your sexual orientation doesn't matter. Second of all, there is NO way I would stay with someone who cheated on me, and especially if they continued to disrespect me. I wouldn't trust this guy as far as I could throw him! I know your life is stressful right now, I know you love him, but this guy is bad news. He doesn't feel the same way about you or he wouldn't betray you.
Image hosted by Photobucket.comImage hosted by Photobucket.com
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 09-05-2005 - 9:56pm

Jase, your agreement isn't unreasonable at all, in fact, it's too lenient. He has proven himself to be untrustworthy. It is now his job to prove himself worthy of your trust and that means not limiting flirting and teasing, it means stopping it altogether. It also means having his life completely open to you; that means you have access to his email and voicemail passwords, etc., as well as full knowledge of where he goes and what he does. He should be 100% accountable to you. Based on what you thought was reasonable, I'm guessing you're going to think what I've said is extreme, but it's what is completely within order. If he wants to show you that he is indeed trustworthy and faithful, he has nothing to hide, and therefore no reason to keep you out of his passwords and his activities. It's how you begin to see that he is indeed being faithful - or not. If he balks, he's not as interested in proving himself to you as he seemed, and I have a feeling he'll balk.


Question for you -- you said he gives every guy he emails his phone number because he prefers talking on the phone. What is the nature of these emails? I'm assuming they're not known friends or you wouldn't have an issue, and they'd already know his number, so exactly why is he communicating with these guys? If it's for "friendship" that sometimes might go beyond platonic then there's one more huge indicator that he is not going to be faithful to you, and it's another example of infidelity, which makes the likelihood of him ever being faithful very slim. Even if these are "friendships" on line only, that is an indiscretion and a violation of your relationship -- an infidelity. It doesn't have to involve sex or physical contact to be cheating, if he's flirting, having cybersex or anything of the like he's cheating. You've said that he's not to communicate with Pat in any way, and that to your knowledge he has no contact with Brett, but what about new communications with others? What assurances do you have, how can he back them up and how can you verify his fidelity? Those are very important elements in rebuilding trust.


One more thing that you're going to hate (as though you haven't got enough of that already). Since you said that every guy you've been in a relationship with has cheated on you, it seems you've identified a pattern in your romantic choices. The indication would be that either you're attracted to some quality that spells cheating or you miss a quality that should be a huge red flag that cheating is to come. Either way, I think you owe it to yourself to examine that with the help of a therapist to find out what it is that has you repeatedly making choices that are hurtful to you and put you at risk for STDs.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown










my signature exchange partner:

Sexual Pleasure








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Tue, 09-06-2005 - 12:24pm

Jase,

I am so sorry to hear about your illness. I agree with a lot that was said about your situation already by the others. I know you don't want to hear about the age factor, but I can't help but to touch on it. I think it has a lot to do with your relationship with Daniel. He is way too young to be that seriously committed to you or anyone else for that matter. If he's made all of those promises to you already and has broken nearly all of them...then what does that tell you and prove to you? If you two move in together how do you expect him to support you when you get extremely sick and can't do for yourself? How can you even trust him to not cheat or do something to violate his relationship with you?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2004
Tue, 09-06-2005 - 1:20pm

Ti-Ti, I find it remarkable that you agree with those who felt Jase's boyfriend was not going to remain faithful based on his previous actions in the face of promises made, in yet your situation, which is strikingly the same, you don't see the same being true.

As you said to Jase, "If he's made all of those promises to you already and has broken nearly all of them...then what does that tell you and prove to you?"

How is your situation any different, really?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Tue, 09-06-2005 - 2:37pm
Lurkerdelux, I understand what you are saying...However, my bf did not cheat on me sexually with his female friend. He let her know that there was no way that they could be together in the way that she wanted it to be. Yes, he did make some wrong choices in the way that he handled the situation but he wasn't coming on to her or crossing the friendship boundary...she was. He didn't or doesn't have a lot of female friends that I can't trust him being around...she was the only one that I had problems with and she was around way before me and him got together. Not only that but there is the age difference...my bf is settled with me and has been for the past five years, he is 26 not 17 so he's very sure of what he wants in his life. There is a huge difference here between my situation and Jase's situation. As I said in my post about my bf and I...he has never made a promise to me that he hasn't kept. If I'm not mistaken Jase has a lot more trust issues with Daniel than I do with my bf. My bf doesn't give out his number on the internet to everyone he comes in contact with or meets. So yes, I can definitely look at my situation differently from Jase's because it is.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2004
Tue, 09-06-2005 - 4:37pm

I hope you don't take offense, but the basics are the same. Your boyfriend and Daniel do not feel the same beliefs and standards on fidelity as you and Jase do. Your boyfriend may not have had a sexual relationship with this girl, but he allowed it to continue when she made it clear what her desires were, he chose her over you when she called, he lied to you about the relationship and (this is where the basic standard on his belief is most evident) thought you you were over reacting to the situation. Your boyfriend, like Daniel, knew how you felt and what you expected and chose to do what he wanted behind your back. It's not like it was a one-time thing, a bad choice on his part, it happened over time, again and again. This isn't about age or maturity, I don't think, it's about basic beliefs and character.

I hope you're taking care to protect yourself.