Cheating Behavior or Selfish Behavior?

Avatar for mom2dylan2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
Cheating Behavior or Selfish Behavior?
14
Tue, 09-20-2005 - 2:13pm

I've never posted here before but needed to pose my question to a group where someone may have had a similar experience.

Brief history: DH was married when I met him. When I found that out I said I wasn't interested but he told me he was going through a divorce. 1 1/2 years later I find out he's still married. (I know, I felt like the biggest fool.) Upon me finding out he immediately moved out, I decided to give him another chance and we ended up getting married a few years later. We've been married for 5 years and most of it has been pretty rough. We eventually went to counseling (mainly because we have 2 small children - I feel I need to try to work it out for their sake) for six months (we just stopped in April) because things seemed to be getting better.

So, is he cheating? He goes out twice a week without fail. Sometimes 3 times. Most of the time he's telling me he has to go out with a customer, but not always. We recently moved further away from his work so lately he'll call me and tell me he's staying with a friend because he doesn't want to drive all the way home after drinking too much. I'm pretty sure I can establish that he has a drinking problem and maybe that's really all this is. I get no weird calls and have found no evidence. The problem is he is very good at lying and the fact is, he did this when he was married before - with me! I just didn't know it at the time. I don't know if his wife had suspicions or not but he spent most of his weeknights with me (sometimes all night, sometimes until midnight or so, not as many weekends). This is when he goes out now, mainly during the week. He has sworn many times he'd never cheat on me - not that I ask him or confront him. Many times though, he has accused me of cheating - even though I rarely go out! It's so annoying. He's the one who has broken trust so many times by lying to me. Anyway.....

I don't know, maybe I'm just hoping he's having an affair - it would be an "easy" way out of my marriage at this point. It's sad that it wouldn't hurt me to know he was cheating. It would piss me off for investing more time than I should have, but it wouldn't hurt me.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-31-2004
Tue, 09-20-2005 - 3:30pm

Considering how you came about getting with him, what he did to get you is what he'll do while he's with you. Without the benefit of intensive therapy, people don't change their basic tack.

There are many factors which don't look very good for him: drinking, MIA, 'staying with a friend' when he's too tired or inebriated to drive all the way home---do you know this friend and have 'his' number?

If you truly want to know the truth, hire a PI and have him followed. He is capable of being deceitful and having an extramarital affair because he's already established the behavior with you. To me, the lying is enough of an 'easy way out'.

Do you love him enough or want the marriage enough to go through couple's therapy to get through this?

Avatar for mom2dylan2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
Tue, 09-20-2005 - 4:43pm

Thanks for your reply. We did do 6 months of counseling and a few things changed, but nothing major. I think we need alot more counseling but at this point I don't think I have it in me to try. I think I was pushed to my limit when we started counseling.

I've considered hiring a PI. I don't know if I can afford it, but I guess it couldn't hurt to look into it. At least I'd know to what extent he's being truthful while he's out.

And you're right, about the lying being enough of a reason to go. I hope one day, if things don't improve, I can find the strength to leave.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 09-20-2005 - 5:19pm

I would think he was cheating. And most especially because HE is accusing YOU of cheating. Plus, he's starting to exhibit all the same signs he did when he was cheating on his last wife with you.

If you actually hope he is (in a way) cause it'd be an easy out then I would say you don't really want to try anymore either.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 09-21-2005 - 1:42am

I agree with what Quenek and Jen have said. He lied to you when you met, continued to lie for over a year. He's established himself as a full-fledged liar. You indicate he's lied since, you don't trust him and you don't believe him. So, you're married to a man whom you know to be a liar (and quite frankly, he always will be) who is also an alcoholic. First off I have to say, "I'm pretty sure I can establish that he has a drinking problem and maybe that's really all this is " maybe that's all it is??? Isn't that enough? Okay, back from that. You're married to an alcoholic liar, you're miserable but feel you don't have reason to leave unless you can prove he's cheating? Isn't your happiness and well being worth anything here? You say you feel you need to work it out because of the kids. Sorry, but I see it just the opposite. You have an obligation to get those kids out of an alcoholic, lying environment and give them a healthy, stable home where they can learn appropriate lessons and actions rather than how to be a liar and an alcoholic just like dad.


You don't need proof of cheating to justify leaving. He's a liar, he's an alcoholic and you're not happy. Pick one or all three, they're all perfectly acceptable, appropriate reasons for saying enough is enough and my life is worth more than this.


I'm wondering why you would accept this man once you knew he'd lied to you for so long before marriage, why you'd stay knowing he continues and why you don't think you're worth a better relationship?







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown










my signature exchange partner:

Sexual Pleasure








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Avatar for mom2dylan2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
Wed, 09-21-2005 - 2:02pm

Thank you for your response.

"I'm wondering why you would accept this man once you knew he'd lied to you for so long before marriage, why you'd stay knowing he continues and why you don't think you're worth a better relationship?"

The questions you're asking right there are exactly what I needed to hear. I don't know why I've accepted this treatment for so long. DH is quite the manipulator and found all of the right buttons to push with me. Such as turning most confrontations into how I've wronged him in some way. Combine that with my personality of trying to always make everyone happy (less and less myself it turns out)and always trying to believe the best about someone and here I am, more or less.

It's apparent that I need counseling on my own to change this pattern. It's not the first time I've allowed myself to be treated poorly, it's the first time I've been unable to get myself out of the situation. I contemplated leaving him before we got married but he would always say he'd never let me go, he'd follow me everywhere and that I was stuck with him. He said it jokingly, but I knew he was serious.

The more I type, the more depressed I am. I can't believe I've allowed things to get so bad.

Thanks again for your honesty.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-22-2005 - 2:38am

Boris, I hope you know my words weren't intended to make you feel bad, they were written with the intent to hopefully provoke you to consider your situation, consider that you are worth more than you're living and spur you to take action. As the saying goes, "It's always darkest before the dawn".


I have to tell you, I =understand how you're feeling. I've been in a lousy marriage, stayed waaaay too long and I too was stunned in looking back at all the years I spent there, and all that I'd accepted as my life. It was sooo unacceptable. It's easy to become numbed, to become complacent; to become so wound up in what's going on day to day that you lose perspective of just how dysfunctional and unacceptable it is. I know you're depressed and I'm sorry. Know too that realization and awareness are the first steps to positive change.


You said he said he'd never let you go, that he'd follow you everywhere and you're stuck with him. You said he said it jokingly but that you knew he was serious. How serious do you think he was? What do you think he's capable of, what do you think he'd do? I'm concerned.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown










my signature exchange partner:

Sexual Pleasure








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Avatar for mom2dylan2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
Thu, 09-22-2005 - 5:04pm

Your messages have helped me more than you know. Especially you sharing with me that you were in a similar situation. I don't want to look back and feel like I wasted half of my life because I didn't feel strong enough to leave.

As far as him saying I'm stuck with him, etc. he hasn't said that for a long time but instead moved on to (when we were at a VERY low point and discussing divorce) "i'll hire the best divorce attorney and take the kids, you'll never see them, etc". I know those words were said out of anger and truthfully, he doesn't have the motivation to actually do this, nor would his family let him. But he does have the power right now to make it a messy divorce. His emotional abuse would increase tremendously and he would use the kids against me and all of that scares me so much. I don't want to put them through that. However, I do not want them exposed to his drinking problem which isn't obvious to them now (they never see him drunk, only I do) but it's not something that can remain hidden forever. They are going to get older (they're only 4 and 2 right now) and notice more things. And our marriage is a poor example of what a marriage should be, in my opinion. I don't want my kids thinking this is how it should be.

But, I have to get stronger. I have to be able to deal with his tantrums and sarcastic, hurtful words and not get beaten down by them. I have become complacent, meaning it's easier to stay below the radar, not make waves, just get through each day. But I can't live the rest of my life this way. I just can't.

I don't think he'd hurt me physically, just emotionally and mentally.

How did you finally find the strenght to leave your marriage? If you don't mind me asking...

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 09-23-2005 - 12:58am

Like you, I have children and they were certainly not a waste of my life, but as far as my happiness, my relationship, myself goes, spending the years of my life in my marriage was a total waste of my life. Stupid, stupid, stupid she says kicking herself. The experience has left me a much wiser woman (and the therapy didn't hurt either :)) but the life itself was really just a prolonged exercise in hell. Interestingly, my husband was an alcoholic and verbally/emotionally abusive too. Sisters in hell I guess, huh? :) You're far ahead of me though, and that's a good thing, I didn't come to the realization that what I was dealing with was verbal and emotional abuse until long after I'd left. The awareness will help you recognize the reality of your situation and (hopefully) give you more incentive to leave, if not for you, but for your kids. I have to point out a very telling (and glaring) thing you said in your response, you said, "I don't think he'd hurt me physically, just emotionally and mentally. " and I say to you, just????? If that doesn't give you a glimpse of how little you think yourself worth at this point I don't know what does. Did you know that experts say they've found verbal and emotional abuse to be more scarring, more damaging than physical abuse? If you're at all thinking that he's mostly abusive when he's drinking, I'll tell you that alcohol and abuse are not connected. An abuser can get drunk and become more abusive, but a drunk who's not abusive will not become abusive from drinking. They're two completely different things and you and I are lucky enough to have found ourselves guys who have 'em both.


I don't mind your asking, and please feel free to ask anything you like. If it helps you I'm more than happy to share any and all of it. There were a few things that spurred me to leave. I had been very intent on trying to make things right, trying to make our relationship happy and normal. One day I thought back to the time that I was trying to get back to and realized that time was ten years ago. Huge awakening. It became very, very clear that my goal was not realistic or reachable. It also became very clear that I had literally spent all those years unhappy, sad, scared, lonely, ashamed, embarrassed, unsatisfied. You name it, if it's a negative feeling I had it, positive ones were fleeting (when things looked up, he "changed" and gave me reason to think things really were going to get better, normal, and we could have the happy, sharing relationship I wanted and believed we could have) and ended in disappointment and despair. At that point I knew it was pointless and a matter of time before it was over. I'd felt sorry for him and had wanted to show him a happier life; he'd had a lousy childhood and I blamed the verbal outbursts (abuse) on the abuse he'd suffered growing up (that may well be true, abusers do typically learn it from their fathers, but that's no reason to stick around and take it). I'd wanted to help him get over his childhood issues and somehow thought I could. I honestly thought that by showing him an example of how "healthy, normal" people operated he would change, adopt healthy behaviors and we'd live happily ever after. A few months after the realization that change wasn't realistic I realized that my thinking on helping him get over his issues wasn't reasonable either. This was his battle to fight, not mine. How could I possibly think I could help him fight, or even make a difference in, a struggle that was inside his own head and was his experience, not mine? How could I help with something that I had no part in? Sure, I could support him while he battled, but frankly, the one doing the battle was me, not him. He wasn't trying to resolve anything, I was. That was a big piece of reality. Most people don't leave the way I did. One day I just decided I couldn't live that way any more. We were not in the middle of a fight, didn't have any current conflict at all, I was just done. My parting words were, "I'm sorry you're unhappy and I'm sorry you had a lousy childhood but I'm not willing to pay for that with the rest of my life." And it was done. Once out I knew I'd never go back and he did too. I cannot tell you how incredible it felt to have that off my chest and off my shoulders. To this day I can still clearly remember how much weight it felt had gone off my shoulders. I can remember (and still recognize and appreciate today) how much bluer the sky is, how much sweeter the air is (no kidding). Life is good, happy, peaceful, even when it's chaotic. For me, it was worth any hardship I had to go through, and I went through many. Never did I regret my decision, never did I consider, even for one second, returning. No way would I go back to that hell. You say your kids don't know. They may not recognize that alcohol is a problem, but they know plenty, believe me. Getting out of your situation you'll likely find what I found, that kids who you thought were happy and oblivious are much more relaxed (and you didn't know they weren't already relaxed). There's more smiling and laughing (and there was plenty before). I think you'll be amazed to find how much more affected they were than you realized. I'll warn you though, they won't be happy at first. As with any separation, they don't want it to happen and will react with great sadness. It took my kids less than a week before they were showing more happiness than I'd ever seen them show.


Your husband has made threats about getting a powerful attorney and taking custody away from you. You said he has the power to make this a messy divorce. Let me just say that he does not have the power to take the kids away. If you've been the primary caretaker, the judge will look at that and will do what is least disruptive for the children. Each state has different laws that pertain to divorce and it's important that you make yourself aware of what's the case in your state. I would strongly, strongly urge you to see an attorney. Choose a good divorce attorney, the best in your area if you can, for a consultation. Consultations are free. Seeing an attorney does not obligate you to do anything, including move forward with a divorce. What it does do is give you the information you need to make sure you take the right steps, do the right things so that if and when you decide to divorce you haven't hurt your chances for getting the house, the kids, etc. You need to be aware of what you should and should not do and a lawyer can advise you of that. Also, if you've seen a lawyer your husband will not be able to retain that same lawyer, so if you've chosen "the best", your husband will be unable to retain him because he already has a history with you. (check that out, I could be wrong, you might have to retain the lawyer before he's unable to represent your husband). But please, see a lawyer just to gain information and to know what to do to best protect yourself. Be sure to tell the lawyer about the threats your husband has made (taking the kids) and explain to him or her how he can make this messy. You may learn your husband is full of crap and/or you may find out how to thwart his efforts in making it messy.


I would also strongly urge you to post on the Dealing With Domestic Abuse board. They are in or have been in situations just like yours. Ask them questions, they'll be happy to offer you advice, suggestions and encouragement. Read the posts that are there, both current and archived ones, there's a lot of inspiration and knowledge there. Also read the Domestic Abuse Board's Homepage , it's filled with articles and information that will be very insightful to you. It's there that I first realized my ex had been verbally abusive. Even read the articles that don't seem to pertain to your situation, you'd be surprised how many places you'll find your husband's behavior fitting into and you'll learn a lot about the dynamics of verbal abuse and abuse in general. Here are some articles from their homepage to get you started:


What is Verbal Abuse? (please take the time to read the intro, it’s slow but it's sooo right on)
Signs of Potential Abuse: Need to Know
Traits of an Abusive Personality
Know What Domestic Violence Is
Power and Control
Extensive DV Checklist
Brainwashing
More on Brainwashing
General Characteristics of Verbal Abuse
The Power of Verbal Abusers Reality
Common Characteristics (Victim/Abuser)
The Mind of an Abuser
Is Your Relationship Healthy?


Read "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft . Bancroft is a therapist who specifically treats abusive men. His book is written for the women who are in relationships with abusive men, to give them an understanding of how these men think and what their thought process is. It's very enlightening. If your husband's on the road frequently it should be easier for you to read. Check to see if your public library has a copy (mine has three).


For me, the strength came from the awareness of the reality of my situation. You're already there. You're miles ahead of me because you've made the realization far ahead of me. Please know that you can contact me by email me anytime, even just to vent, I've been there.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown










my signature exchange partner:

Sexual Pleasure



Edited 10/6/2005 12:53 am ET ET by cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2005
Fri, 09-23-2005 - 10:56am

borismchugh

Please try to pull yourself out of the depression. You shouldn't feel bad for trying to make it work, a marriage is a very serious commitment and you also have children to consider. I am in a situation along the same lines (husband tells me we need to be separated a while because he knows he hasn't been treating me good and he has issues from his past he has to deal with on his own) and I still have hope and would like to work it out. Also know that you are worthy of someone who treats you well, shows you affection, and respects you. Unfortunately your husband doesn't seem like a man who cares about anybody but himself and I know that really hurts you, it is okay for it to hurt, but remember to take care of yourself. Do you have any friends or family near by? At a time like this it helps to have another person there to give you a hug. I live 600 miles away from my family, but I have an Aunt and Uncle in the same town and my best friend is taking the train from NYC to VA to spend Saturday night with me.

Also, start looking at the finances and try to store some money up in case something bad happens or you need money just to get away for a weekend. It isn't right the way you are being treated and you are a worthy person, remember that.

My thoughts and prayers go out to you.

Avatar for mom2dylan2001
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
Fri, 09-23-2005 - 5:53pm

Thanks so much for your post - and your thoughts and prayers.

As far as feeling depressed, I definitely have days that are good and definitely some that aren't so good. It's when I start to really look at my marriage and the way I've allowed myself to be treated that I get so upset. I'm glad that over the last few months or so I've been realizing that I can't allow this to go on forever. I'm beginning to feel worse and worse.

It is so much of a struggle because I do take marriage seriously and because I want my kids to grow up with both of their parents together. Unfortunately it's becoming more and more obvious that that may not happen and I have to realize that I have given it my all and it just won't ever be enough because I'm not the one who needs to change.

That being said, I don't know if my husband can change, even though he has told me he's trying. He really isn't.

I do have some close friends nearby, thank God. And I have found this board to be so helpful - especially the posts I've gotten. Thanks again for yours and I hope you and your husband are able to work out your differences and that he starts treating you well.

Pages