Healing from Porn?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2005
Healing from Porn?
13
Wed, 09-21-2005 - 11:03pm

I wrote a post a while ago about my boyfriend using porn. We have a serious relationship and have planned on getting married eventually.

He was married before and didn't have a healthy relationship. He used porn as a means for what he wasn't getting. He knew I didn't approve of it but while we were dating I found out he was doing it. He said he didn't know I felt so strongly about it but I said it was like he was cheating. He said he would change this and not continue.

It's been several months now and I really believe he has changed it. I really don't think he does it at all anymore esp since I can get on his computer anytime and everything looks legit. We don't live together because we both have kids so I am not with him 24/7.

This is the problem though, ever since that time I have been severely scarred by this experience because I thought our relationship was so strong that nothing like that would come between us and since I thought I had expressed how I felt about it I thought he wouldn't do it.
I am paranoid all the time when we go out that he might be checking out other girls, I am paranoid of sexy actresses on tv, I am paranoid about so many stupid things that I don't remember feeling that way before this all happened. I get super jealous a lot of times over stupid things.

Now I know I've had a problem with jealousy in the past (I was also married) but I got over it and had no problems with the fidelity of my spouse but I can't understand why I can't get over this and if it all stems from what happened with the porn? I have never considered myself to be an insecure person and actually felt very confident with myself until this happened.
Please advise because we have been on the verge of breaking up because he says I need to trust him but I live in constant fear and paranoia that his eyes are wandering....HELP!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-22-2005 - 3:43am

Quirky, you must have posted under a different name when you posted before? I swear "quirky" sounds familiar (though I've been known to hallucinate on occasion), but I can't find it anywhere?!?!?!?


A couple of questions...

  • do I understand you right that even though you'd discussed with him your views on porn when you found him using it he claimed he didn't know that you felt strongly?
  • You indicated your discovery of the porn was a few months ago, is that correct?
  • I'm assuming the internet was the only source he was using to view porn, yes?


    What you seem to be describing is that what you believed about this man has been shaken to the core. What you believed was wrong and that's left you unsure of exactly what he is, and what he isn't. It's hard to know what to believe in and trust when the only judgment you have is your own and it wasn't so great at getting it right the first time.


    At first glance, at least for me, what you describe that your anxious about and his porn use don't seem to make sense, don't seem to connect, but on deeper thought, I think it makes perfect sense. Now you're not sure what he's thinking, what his level of "porn" thinking is, so to speak. You never used to wonder what he thought of other women, but you never used to wonder if he used internet porn either, am I on track? If not, please let me know, and if I am on track, I hope I've validated some of your feelings and concerns. You titled your post "Healing from Porn", it's good to know that you realize healing is what's needed, but I don't think it's really porn that you need to heal from, it's from betrayal -- he knew how you felt and lied to you by omission in letting you believe he was not using porn. He betrayed your trust and your confidence. Make sense?


    A big problem I see is that after what I assume has only been a few months (you'll have to set me straight on that) he's telling you that you need to trust him. The news flash for him is that trust isn't something you can order up like a hamburger or install like batteries. Trust is earned, and in this case, it has to be re-earned because he's destroyed the trust you had in him. Funny thing about trust. He's expecting you to "just" trust him when the only judgment you have to decide he's trustworthy with is the same judgment that thought he was trustworthy to begin with. How the heck do you go about trusting your judgment when you've already seen that it's not as good as you thought it was? The issue's bigger than "just trusting him" and expecting you to do so is unreasonable, isn't taking responsibility for his actions and isn't showing care and concern for the damage that he's caused. His very attitude and actions give you reason to feel more cautious and less apt to trust him, and I think if he were more active in rebuilding your trust, working towards proving himself to be trustworthy, rather than suggesting you have the problem and you need to get over it you'd be farther along that you are. If it's going the way I think it is, there's no way you'd be able to make advancements in your trust level. But, I also know I'm making a lot of assumptions. What has he been doing to rebuild your trust? What's changed in your relationship that helps you in this area?

    Answers to those questions will help to know what to suggest.

    I'm sorry for the struggle and insecurity you're feeling. It's awful to feel like that after having felt very sure of yourself. It's a needy, helpless kind of feeling, and it's not at all comfortable or positive.






  • ~ cl-2nd_life

    "You can't control the length of your life,
    but you can control the width and depth."

    ~ Author unknown










    my signature exchange partner:

    Sexual Pleasure



    Edited 9/22/2005 3:46 am ET by cl-2nd_life








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 09-21-2005
    Thu, 09-22-2005 - 10:02am

    Thanks for your response cl-2nd. I did post under another name but it was close to this one. I will try to put the link in for the post but not sure if it will work...

    http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlletstalkab&msg=16924.1&ctx=512

    I'm glad someone doesn't think I'm being unreasonable because it has affected our relationship tremendously. You are right on the money when you say I don't know his level of "porn" thinking, I think that's exactly what I'm afraid of - I suppose I wonder now if he's looking at another woman and wonders if he thinks their sexy or if he sees an actress on tv (one who I know he looked up porn on before and I HATE when he watches her in movies now...) I wonder what he thinks when he sees beautiful women and if he is checking them out, and I guess more than anything what his level of sexual thinking is when it comes to other women.

    Let me say this, there were times before I knew that I honestly did not feel possessive like this, we would go out and even talk to other women and I didn't feel threatened (maybe a little jealous if they were really cute) but I didn't think about it or worry about it. I would watch whatever shows or movies with him and never even blink if some beautiful sexy woman came on tv, but since this whole episode of knowing he was looking and getting off to other women it just makes me feel paranoid now of what he is looking at, what his fantasies are inside his head, how sexual he percieves other women to be...the other night we were out dancing and some other beautiful charismatic girl who fit his sexual "type" was dancing too. He has a tendency to people watch when we're out and so I'm sitting there wondering if he's looking at her, if he is what he's thinking...and stupidly I said something because I can never keep my mouth shut and he said he didn't know what I was talking about and it started a whole argument. Granted we were out and drinking so I overreacted but I still feel jealous any other time too.

    I am actually going to see a counselor because besides this my life is a mess since trying to go through a divorce (no I'm not rebounding or anything, my finances and plan for life are all in an uproar).

    However, my relationship with him is one of the most important things to me and I have such mixed feelings about it. I love him very much and if it is me that has the problem then I want to deal with it. He has made a lot of effort to show me how trustworthy he can be even to the point of not hanging out with friends as much who are into this stuff and who go out and are very flirtatious with other women (and are married). We've talked about trying to develop new friendships with other people who would be more of a positive influence and he doesn't go out as much anymore. I know sometimes he is even careful about what he watches around me (I guess it's that stupid paranoia still of what he's watching when I'm not there, and I don't think he's looking at porn but I still am jealous because what I may see as trashy on tv, he might think is ok even if it's not porn).
    I do love this man but he keeps saying maybe I'd be happier finding someone else because he has been trying to change and I am still scared. I know I have become much more clingy and possessive of him than I remember being before. I really am trying to fight these feelings but they keep resurfacing and I don't know if I'm just looking for a reason to be upset or if I'm just so hurt by what happened it will never go away? I know he loves me and I don't believe he would ever cheat on me, the problem is I feel like he already did by looking at all these other women. I don't want to keep driving him crazy when he has stopped looking at it and I don't even think that he will but the damage is done where I'm afraid of being compared to other women, or that my body must be ajoke when compared to these other women's bodies that he looked at, or that he might wish for me to be more like them in some way, or that he might think of other women sexually on a regular basis...
    Man I need help...

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Thu, 09-22-2005 - 12:10pm

    If it makes you feel any better, I change the channel when Victoria Secret commercials come on tv. AND I check to see if DH averted his eyes or not, every time. And for me, it's been years since there was a problem and DH's wasn't as extensive as your DF.

    What has worked for me is asking DH about it periodically. I ask him "how are you doing?" and he knows exactly what I'm talking about. It annoyed him at first, but it's the only thing that keeps me comfortable about it and he HAS to tolerate it because otherwise I can't tolerate it. Does that make sense?

    From my standpoint, I knew DH had issues here when we were dating. And he WORKED on those when we were dating. He also told me about it, I didn't stumble across it after I had told him it would be a problem for me. (We never had talked about it actually, but it's something that our religion says is wrong and I agree. So I hadn't said, I don't want you to do this.)

    There have been 3 times in our marriage where DH has had a slight slip in the area. He's never looked up porn, his is more "regular" movies with scenes. (I don't watch R rated movies because I don't like the language and sex. So I'm actually referring to JUST R rated movies.) With DH though he thinks it's a weakness too. (I've even clarified since his recent issue with our religious beliefs. 1st thing I clarified and said this is absolutely not allowed or I am gone. So I STILL think about it quickly.) He has worked on it. And over time I've seen that he means it. Which is the only thing that has helped me heal.

    Good luck and if he keeps making steps to NOT view porn, you will feel better over time. But unfortunately, at least for me, it's still there to some degree. Just not as bad as before.

    Jen

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 05-04-2005
    Thu, 09-22-2005 - 1:07pm

    Dear Quirky,

    I have to take a somewhat different position here. I'm not a bad person at all but I don't view porn as a big deal (please don't bash me or debate the right/wrong of porn). DH and I watch it together or separately, and I know other couples who do too. Having said that, I fully respect your view that it is wrong.

    My impression is that your DF probably doesn't think there is anything wrong with porn either, but he is obviously trying to respect your wishes and your feelings, so he is willing to change his behavior. You have not had reason to doubt that he has lapsed in his promise to you, so I feel that you're being unreasonably jealous and insecure. I especially see no reason at all to be jealous of mainstream movies or TV shows where sexy actresses are prominent. Such is so common in our society that it would, to me, take unreasonable effort on your DF's part to avoid seeing them. The comment that your DF said to you about maybe finding someone else is a red flag to me. It tells me that he is trying to change his personality for you -- and as we know, in the long run, people can't really change (at least not an about face). It tells me that he is always walking on egg shells and not comfortable to be himself and probably feels constricted by your over-possessiveness and lack of trust.

    Unless you see signs that DF is breaking his word to you, I think you need to loosen the leash and trust him to keep his promise. In the long run, however, I am still a little concerned because I'm not sure a man can change his spots (so to speak) when most of these men start watching porn in the teen years.

    Good luck to you. I just wanted to give this other side of the picture.

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 07-23-2002
    Thu, 09-22-2005 - 1:11pm

    I have had the exact same problems that you are having.

    ~Live to be happy~Be happy to live~

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 09-21-2005
    Thu, 09-22-2005 - 3:47pm

    So would you all say there is a general consensus that he has done all that he possibly can and that I really am the one who needs to deal with it from here on out?

    I'm just wondering if like in the post by 2nd if there is anything he should be doing. I mean I'm not trying to say I'm not overreacting but it was his fault that things happened like this. I really don't think it will be something he goes back to because we are trying to work together as a couple to be united on a lot of the things that are important to both of us. He realizes that my values are more conservative and he has told me that he sees the problems that it causes (porn).

    It is a tough situation because I do have a lot of similar views as Jen (which I hope all works out for you, I'm sorry for the recent problem from your post) and I don't want him to "convert" to my way of life for me, I want him to do it for himself and because he believes in it himself. I know he has made efforts to try to do this so far but I do worry that he is doing it just for me. He has shown in other ways though his earnest desire to separate himself from unhealthy relationships and even other things so i believe he wants to be the best person he can be but I just wonder if we will ever be on completely the same level and if my views will be too much for him.

    Just answer this - am I the only one who needs to work on anything? Should i keep my mouth shut or is there anything that he needs to do too to help deal with this?

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Thu, 09-22-2005 - 4:09pm

    Since he IS working on some things and trying to change them, can you think of something else that he needs to do? From my standpoint, you need time to see if this is real or if this is something he's just doing for you. If he is just doing it cause you want him to, I agree that he won't be able to sustain it. My Dh has offered to work at the religious issue for me and I've told him it won't work. And when he starts working on it, if he chooses, I will wonder if he's doing it just to insure keeping me or because HE wants to. And unfortunately if he doesn't come out and tell me which he's doing the only way I'll know is by having time to see it work. And I think that is where you are. You need to take the time to see it work. And you won't start to heal til more time has passed and he consistantly works at it.

    You need to work at yourself but that doesn't mean there is nothing he needs to work at. I don't know him and it won't matter if I think he should work on something or if you think he should. He has to think he should. Since the jealousy is driving you nuts then you need to work on it. If that means you are very careful about what movies you watch, then be careful. I would also having a problem watching a movie with an actress that he had looked up porn about. I'd wonder if he was picturing her naked... Which would drive me bonkers. So avoid those movies. And tell him it's because YOU are uncomfortable. And because you have a problem with it cause you honestly don't know what he thinks about during the movie.

    You don't have to not talk about it ever with him. Just try not to over talk it too. And let him know you see the jealousy as an issue that you have a need to work on and ask him to be patient while you do.

    Jen

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-26-2003
    Thu, 09-22-2005 - 4:22pm

    Sneaking in quickly between projects....


    What I'd wondered was, I am right in understanding your discovery of the porn was a few months ago?








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 07-23-2002
    Thu, 09-22-2005 - 5:43pm

    Serenity prayer:


    Dear God,
    Grant me the serenity to accept
    the things I cannot change;
    Courage to change the
    things I can;
    And wisdom to
    know the difference,


    You cannot change the past what has been done.

    ~Live to be happy~Be happy to live~

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-26-2003
    Fri, 09-23-2005 - 3:15am

    Not sure if you didn't see my questions above (they are kind of buried in the middle of the posts) or if you haven't been back since I posted them. Whichever is the case, I'm posting them again here:
    What I'd wondered was, I am right in understanding your discovery of the porn was a few months ago? What has he been doing to rebuild your trust? What's changed in your relationship that helps you in this area? And a very big one: Do the two of you talk about it? I mean do you tell him how you're feeling (anger, disappointment, confusion, anxiety, suspicion, etc.) and does he accept what you say? Is he open to talking about it or does he think it's over and done with and you should "get over it" and move on? This is a huge one.


    Now, as far as your question, "am I the only one who needs to work on anything? Should i keep my mouth shut or is there anything that he needs to do too to help deal with this? " My answers are "no, no and yes", respectively. :)

    I'm not sure you want to go into as many different issues as I think there are here, but I'll give it a go and hope I don't end up with a War and Peace sized post at the end.

    In my mind, the primary issue you're dealing with is the betrayal, the fact that (if I understand you correctly) you made yourself very clear on how you felt about pornography, he appeared to agree (if even just by simply saying nothing) and continued in the relationship, deceiving you on the state and strength of the relationship, the compatibility of morals, values and views. The issue seems to be pornography, but in reality, it's about his deceit, his trustworthiness, his betrayal of your trust and belief. Even if he never touches porn again, you know that he's lied to you, he's deceived you into thinking he believed on way when in reality he believed quite another -- or at least practiced quite another. You're looking at your guy wondering what else you don't know, what else he's hiding and how you can trust him. You say you believe he's not using porn, but you wonder what he thinks about women. That says you are now only sure that you don't know what he really thinks or believes, your confidence, your trust, your belief in him has been shaken to the core. If you'd told him you didn't believe in gambling, he agreed, then you found that he had a standing Friday night poker game or went to Vegas on a regular basis to play the casinos you'd feel just as shaken, just as betrayed, and maybe you'd feel the issue was gambling, when in fact, the primary issue is betrayal, trust and deceit. The "instrument" of his deceit was porn, but any instrument can be used in porn's place and the issue remains the same. Make sense?


    As far as dealing with the aftermath of this and healing from it, keeping quiet and shutting up are absolutely the worst things you can do. It's not healthy for you and it will cause you more emotional baggage, distress and trauma. Nothing is resolved by shoving it under the rug. The issue doesn't go away, and even if he never does it again, you need reassurance that he's staying on the straight and narrow. You need to resolve the issue until you feel it's resolved, in your mind and in your heart. Keeping quiet, looking the other way, pretending it doesn't exist will allow the problem to become bigger than life. You can't deal with something if you aren't facing it, it doesn't go away just because you stop looking at it. And you can gain no reassurance that things are okay if you're not able to check on them. You both need to be dealing with this. He is the one who caused the problem, he needs to be the one who's active in resolving it. He needs to accept responsibility for the pain, trauma, distrust and destruction he's caused the relationship. He needs to be willing to talk about it or listen to you vent/talk about it whenever you need to for as long as you need to. I'm not suggesting he's never going to not want to do it or that he'll always be ready to listen no matter what time it is, what else he's got going on or how long you want to talk, but 95% of the time, he should be there, sucking it up, listening and acknowledging the damage he's caused. To take the attitude that he's apologized, he's not doing it anymore so it's over and done with is to in effect tell you your feelings don't matter. And yes, they matter very much. If he doesn't get why this is such a big deal, maybe you need to explain it again, or maybe your clue is that he's not quite the guy you thought he was. Do you want to be tied to someone who doesn't think your deep hurts are valid or worth tending to? (Not saying that's him, just "if") Denying or minimizing the seriousness of the issue is a way to avoid dealing with it, avoid dealing with the responsibility. If you'd done something that shook him to the core would you be telling him he was overreacting and acting like his pain was a real hassle to you? I doubt it. So okay, he's lead you to believe he agreed with you on important value and moral issues, then you find out that he wasn't being honest. All that you really know is that he's not honest. You have no idea what else there is that you thought you knew and used to believe about him that's just as false as this issue. From that standpoint, you can't really believe him when he tells you what he had for lunch. All you know is what he said, and that may or may not be true. That's the problem you're faced with. And that's the primary issue that needs to be fixed. So how do you fix it? A few things. Openness and honestly (from him) the ability to let him know your concerns, your fears, your anger,etc. that you feel about this. Communication back from him on the subject. Acceptance of responsibility. Expressed regret and validation of your feelings (from him). As far as the porn itself is concerned, the ability to check his computer for signs of it is important. He should be open and willing to let you check anytime you want. It's important that you be able to do that to allow you to see that he's continuing to be true to his word and open and honest with you. It's his job to prove to you that he's being above board and doing what he said he'd do. It's his job to regain your trust and being open is a tool to doing that. You can't just "get over this" because you want to. Your trust and belief has been shattered and it won't come back until you've had enough time without further betrayal and examples of positive, appropriate behavior to override the examples of reasons for distrust you've been dealt. It'll take time, lots of time for this to subside, you can't rush it, push it or force it. Trust isn't something you can force. Your built-in protection system won't put mistrust to trust until it's had enough examples along with enough time to feel there is no longer a danger. I think couples counseling is a must for you two, asap. **Important** Make sure the counselor/therapist is licensed for couples. There are some articles on infidelity I think would be helpful for you to take a look at, while your issue, or "instrument" isn't the same, the principle is and I think you'll get a pretty good idea of how something like this (betrayal, deceit) should be handled and what is to be expected:
    Getting Over an Affair
    Healing From Infidelity
    Recurring Memories of Spouses Affair


    As far as the porn itself goes, to me, that's another matter. Personally, I agree with Teetering on the issue of porn, but honestly, that doesn't matter. You have the right to believe what you believe and it doesn't matter who disagrees on the issue. What's right for you is right for you, what's right for me is right for me and you absolutely should have the kind of principles you believe in active in your life. I have to say that I'm concerned about him staying away from porn. People don't stop doing things they like and think are acceptable because someone else thinks they're wrong or unacceptable. They may try to stop for a while, but if they enjoy it, generally speaking, they'll eventually resume whatever it is. In order to stop doing, to change their behavior they have to not like that about themselves and want to stop for themselves. There are some people who do things they believe are wrong and bad, want to stop but can't (addicts). But generally speaking, we do things because our values and morals say it's okay to do them. I'm sure most of us have done something or other in our lives that we really didn't think was okay, and after continuing to feel bad about it, gave it up, I know I have. But your fiance is a grown man. If he's using porn it's likely not something he thinks is wrong but is doing anyway, nor do you indicate he's showing signs of being addicted. Chances are that it is what it appears, he knew your beliefs were different than his, kept quiet and continued to do what he wanted to do. He got busted and is saying he won't do it anymore, but chances are he will, he'll just take extra care not to let you see. I know you don't want to hear that, but what it sounds like you've got is a fundamental difference. It's lousy and it's not fair because you were open and honest and he deceived you by not telling you he disagreed and used porn. He took away your choice to make a decision on going forward with the relationship based on truth and facts. It would be different if you simply didn't want to see porn, if that were the case he would be able to use it and would only need to take extra care that it was not ever in your presence. Again though, the porn issue itself is separate from the betrayal and deceit.


    As far as what he (or any) men are thinking when the look at women and how we measure up goes, I see the human body as something that's ever changing. No, I don't look like a model, and I don't look like I did ten years ago, but neither does anyone else, it's life. There are always going to be women who look better than me, no question. And even if I was "perfect", I wouldn't be perfect for long -- and I'd probably think there were some features on some other woman that were better than mine. I don't have time for that kind of concern. I also think there's a whole lot more to a person than their body. In my marriage, I generally notice pretty women before my husband and point them out to him. I can appreciate a pretty woman, just as I appreciate a good looking guy. I'm in a relationship, I'm not blind! My husband's preference is brown haired, brown eyed women. I have red hair and blue eyes -- and I'm five years older than him. If he wanted to be with a brown eyed brunette, he would be. Instead, he chose me. As for wondering what me might be thinking when they're looking at women, I'm sure it's not the same as what we think when we look at guys; men are a different beast than we are. They're wired different, and it's as scientific fact that they're more visual, which is why porn images and flicks (as well as graphic war and violent movies) interest them. Notice how non-popular Playgirl is/was? It's not our thing. I will say there's a difference between looking and drooling. Looking at a woman is a glance and maybe a second glance. That's not the same as staring, following a girl with his eyes, forgetting his conversation, walking into walls, etc. Staring is rude and disrespectful to you and to the girl he's watching.


    Another board you might want to check in with is Families Damaged by Pornography .

    To me, the bottom line on the porn issue is that everyone has the right to their own feelings and beliefs on the subject. You'd just better be sure that your partner's feelings and beliefs are compatible.







    ~ cl-2nd_life

    "You can't control the length of your life,
    but you can control the width and depth."

    ~ Author unknown










    my signature exchange partner:

    Sexual Pleasure



    Edited 9/23/2005 4:05 am ET ET by cl-2nd_life








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"

    Pages