3 years and questioning future
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| Tue, 10-04-2005 - 9:01am |
I have been with my bf for a little over 3 years. We seem to fight all the time, but normally it isn't even the topic of why we are fighting but how he talks to me or handles it. He can't ever apologize or admit he hurt me or upset me. He has said things like he knew it would upset me but did it anyways and then tell me I am a bitch for getting upset.
His older brother and him work together and we live in the condo underneath him. They are very close but his brother is controlling and has some seious social issues. He doesn't understand that yelling at people over nothing isn't how to make friends. I don't really like him but have to deal with him. My bf doesn't seem to realize that this can be very tough and if I try to get any advice or anything he just gets mad at me. As he says, he chose his gf, not his brother so I need to be more mature and just let it go.
Anyhow, we seem to fight because I feel like he just is going to do his own thing. We will live where he and his brother want. He does ask my opinion on things but I feel like the major decisions have already been made for me. He is more financially stable than me (grad school and undergrad debt) and so has more leverage for certain decisions.
I want to go to counseling because I feel like it is more of our communication style that is the issue and that we are both stubborn but I am not sure if he will go.
He also attacks me with names and attacks who I am a lot when he is mad. He can't stay on the topic at hand but will call me selfish, greedy, a bitch, etc. The funny thing is a lot of these names get slung at me when I am upset with him for something - he turns it around on me.
I'm tired and either need to leave or get help. I just look into the future and don't see me being happy if this style of fighting (and how much) doesn't stop.
~ K

Welcome back,
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
It kind of looks like you've five months farther down the road in this relationship and are more unhappy (it seems) than you were before, and on the very same issues. It doesn't sound like your situation has changed for the better, and I don't know for sure, but from what you've said either it's gotten worse or you're being more detailed on his verbal put downs than you were before. You've said that you don't see yourself being happy in this relationship if the fighting doesn't stop. I can't say as I blame you, fighting is pretty miserable and when you're being verbally attacked and belittled (which you are) it's even more unbearable. Frankly, you shouldn't have to put up with verbal attacks and put downs, and taking it one step further I'll say you just plain shouldn't put up with them. It's demeaning and very damaging to you to have that kind of caustic, demeaning attack be thrown upon you by anyone, let alone the person who's supposed to care about you.
I'm not sure I understand your statement about his brother, you said, "I don't really like him but have to deal with him. My bf doesn't seem to realize that this can be very tough and if I try to get any advice or anything he just gets mad at me. ", what kind of advice do you try to get from his brother and why does it bother your boyfriend?
Several times you've made references to you and your boyfriend as being stubborn and seem to be suggesting that this is the problem. Maybe there's more that you're not posting, but I have to tell you stubbornness has nothing to do with a guy who calls you names and makes other derogatory and untrue statements (like you're never happy). These fall under the heading of verbal abuse and quite frankly, I think you should take a good hard look at what kind of person would choose to throw those kinds of ugly statements and put downs towards anyone, let alone someone they care about. Is this the kind of caring guy you want to spend your life with? Verbal attacks and put downs are confusing because they're very hurtful and demeaning. They make you feel bad about yourself, and make you question if you're being unreasonable in what you want, expect of how you handle yourself in the relationship or in an argument that he'd think those kinds of things about you. Another part of his personality that you should take a hard look at is the fact that he says he says/does things that he knows will upset you, but chooses to do them anyway. He's telling you quite plainly that he realizes what he'll do will be hurtful to you, then chooses to disregard you and your feelings and do them knowing it will cause you pain. As if that's not cold and uncaring enough, he goes a step further and calls you names for being upset, even though he knew you would be. Again I ask you, this is a guy you want to be with? This is the kind of caring person you want? Tiger, relationships are supposed to be loving, caring, supportive partnerships. Your partner should be someone you can trust and believe in, someone you're safe with. Someone you can share with and know what you say and feel will be safe with them. There is nothing safe about the relationship you're in.
You didn't go into many examples, but mentioned a few instances where you feel your choices are made for you. You say (if I understand right) that you will live where he and his brother choose. I take that to mean that not just for now, but in the future, if he and his brother decide to move somewhere else, you'll have no say in the matter, is that right? I don't know what kinds of things he has more leverage on, but I'd be interested to hear some examples from you.
I wonder if you've realized how similar your boyfriend is to the brother that you dislike so much. His brother yells at people over nothing, your boyfriend calls you names and throws verbal assaults at you (yells at you over nothing). You should also realize the likelihood of your boyfriend or his brother changing is virtually non-existent.
What are you prepared to do if this doesn't change, have you thought that through? If you know you won't be willing to stay if this continues (and you shouldn't) a next step might be to tell him, at a time when there isn't a problem or argument between you, that you're concerned about the name calling and verbal attacks and that if they continue you won't be willing to stay. What you do from there will depend on his answer.
What I really think though, is that while you may not have thought about your relationship this way, but what you describe is a verbally and emotionally abusive relationship. Men who are abusers (your boyfriend is in this category) aren't likely to change. Even with appropriate treatment, the rate of abusers who change is between 1 and 3%, which means virtually no abusers stop being abusive.
I would also strongly urge you to post on the Dealing With Domestic Abuse board. They are in or have been in situations just like yours. Ask them questions, they'll be happy to offer you advice, suggestions and encouragement. Read the posts that are there, both current and archived ones, there's a lot of inspiration and knowledge there. Also read the Domestic Abuse Board's Homepage , it's filled with articles and information that will be very insightful to you. It's there that I first realized my ex had been verbally abusive. Even read the articles that don't seem to pertain to your situation, you'd be surprised how many places you'll find your husband's behavior fitting into and you'll learn a lot about the dynamics of verbal abuse and abuse in general. Here are some articles from their homepage to get you started:
What is Verbal Abuse? (please take the time to read the intro, it's slow but it's sooo right on)
Signs of Potential Abuse: Need to Know
Traits of an Abusive Personality
Know What Domestic Violence Is
Power and Control
Extensive DV Checklist
Brainwashing
More on Brainwashing
General Characteristics of Verbal Abuse
The Power of Verbal Abusers Reality
Common Characteristics (Victim/Abuser)
The Mind of an Abuser
Is Your Relationship Healthy?
Read "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft . Bancroft is a therapist who specifically treats abusive men. His book is written for the women who are in relationships with abusive men, to give them an understanding of how these men think and what their thought process is. It's very enlightening, you'll understand a lot by reading the book. Another book to read is “The Verbally Abusive Relationship” by Patricia Evans Check to see if your public library has a copies of these books (much easier to borrow than to buy, at least until you know you want to own them).
I know I've thrown a lot at you and maybe have suggested some things that are pretty hard to digest, let alone accept. Take some time to consider it, read the articles and information and see what you think. What I really hope that you do is decide that the verbal attacks and put downs don't exist in the kind of man you'd accept for yourself and you'll leave. It really isn't something anyone should accept or put up with; you deserve more, much more. You deserve to be treated with care and respect, even when you're fighting. There's no excuse for what he does, he makes the choice to act as he does, say the things he does, no one forces him. Can you imagine having children and raising them in this kind of environment?
One more important thing, you've mentioned counseling. It's important to know that couples counseling is absolutely not recommended in any kind of abusive relationship. Seeing a "regular" counselor rather than one who is licensed in abuse/domestic violence will complicate the problem, confuse you, and make your situation much worse, rather than better. Here's an article that explains the reasons for that:
Counseling and Domestic Abuse
and a great audio interview with the author of one of the books I suggested above:
Why Does He Do That? Interview w/Lundy Again, I know I've thrown a lot at you, or maybe you've been suspecting your situation is more than just ugly fighting. I hope you take a look at the information and consider what life with this man will be like, as well as how vastly different it is from an emotionally healthy and supportive relationship that you deserve. Take care of yourself.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
Edited 10/6/2005 2:25 am ET ET by cl-2nd_life
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Tigerlily, I too was once in a verbally abusive relationship, and if there's any doubt in your mind that your relationship is verbally abusive, I'm here to tell you that it is. I know I hated realizing that mine was abusive. I hated thinking of myself as a "victim" (I hate that word) and I hated thinking that it wasn't going to change for the better and that there was nothing I could do to make it change. I really wanted to work to make it the great relationship I wanted. Truth is, the only way to have the relationship you want and deserve (one that isn't abusive) is to leave this guy and find a new relationship with a healthy, non-abusive guy.
It sucks that things don't always go the way we want them to and it sucks that we can't make what we want happen, but it's the way it is.