Another new here post! lol
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| Wed, 10-19-2005 - 10:59am |
Hi All :)
I've been lurking here for awhile and thought I would finally introduce myself and hope to get some advice or something! lol
My name is Jessica. I am 27 and have been married for a little over 9 years. I married my high school sweetheart. We have two young children. They are 5 and 7.
I married this man thinking he was my prince charming. The answer to my prayers. We both come from divorced families and for the longest time I tried telling myself that no matter what I would never divorce because I didn't want my kids to grow up having to go back and forth to mom's and dad's. Now I'm starting to wonder if our only option is divorce.
We seem to have grown so far apart over the years. The first 2 years were great, or so I thought. Now he tells me that I was too controlling and possessive and he has NO friends because I never wanted him to get together with them and leave me alone. Now I am the first to admit that I was very insecure. I was 17 when we married. I wanted him to spend all of his time outside of work with me. I realize now that that was probably a mistake. I put my friends on hold and never did anything with them unless it was with my husband, too. Luckily my best friend from high school stuck by me. We're not near as close as we used to be but we are still great friends. Hubby's best friend moved to another state, roughly 5 hours away, but I was always happy for him to come spend the weekend with us whenever. I didn't mind him being around, thought he was a great guy. Eventually their relationship ended, I'm not sure why. Hubby still throws it in my face that he no longer has any friends because of me... because he was afraid to leave me at home and go somewhere with them because he never knew how I would react when he got home, if I would yell at him or give him the silent treatment and it just wasn't worth that. He only told me these things about a year ago when we started fighting frequently.
We decided to have our first child when I was 19, he was 22. I was working part time and started working full time during that pregnancy. He quit his job while I was pregnant because he did not like it. He didn't have any luck finding anything else so he worked for family members for awhile. He landed a decent paying job one month before I had the baby. He worked great hours, finally had benefits, great pay for around this area... the best pay he'd ever had. We had moved into a rent house that his Dad owns during my pregnancy while he was unemployed. We lived there rent free and only paid the bills. He still did not want to save. He wanted to spend everything he made. We got a newer vehicle as soon as we could with a cosigner because I had no credit and his was terrible. That vehicle is gone now, we've traded it in for something newer and better without a cosigner. My grandmother died and I got some money. He insisted on putting it as a down payment on a truck for him so we would not have to use 1 vehicle. Which of course made life easier for me, so I said yes. Before we got the truck we had our 2nd child. Things seemed to be ok with one child, other than the fact that my husband very rarely spent any time with him. He went to work and came home and got straight on the computer to play games. He always refused to get up at night with the kids because he worked and I quit my job when our first child was 5 months old to stay home. I was a stay at home mom and according to him could sleep any time so it was my responsibility to deal with the kids 24/7. And I was breastfeeding so there was nothing he could do anyway... he could not feed them. I dealt with all this and was still at the point that I thought everything was going to be ok because I loved him. I kept hoping that he would change that he would become a better more active father in his kids lives. So, we were 21 and 24 and had 2 children under 2. We were struggling to make ends meet but for the most part were happy together.
My grandmother passed away when I was 24 leaving me money and 2 paid for rent houses. The rent houses are in a trust so that I cannot sell them until I am 30. I am responsible for all upkeep and expenses on the houses and I get the income monthly from them. Then when I turned 25 I got some money from a trust fund set up after my dad passed away. We used that money as a downpayment on our house. We moved into this house in December 2003. In January 2004 my husband lost his job and I found out I was having a miscarriage in the same week. He was out sick when he lost his job, but he was not a dependable worker. He usually called in sick on average of 2 times a month. For something simple or just because he did not want to go. His dad warned him about a year before he lost his job that he better be careful. My husband did not believe they would ever get rid of him because he did such a good job and they just couldn't make it without him. Well, lo and behold he got sick. He called on a Tuesday, told them he had a doc excuse and may not be in for the rest of the week. He had pleuresy. He never called them back, just assumed because he told them he may not be in and had an excuse that it would be fine. He went in on the following Monday and they terminated him for missing 3 days in a row without calling. I had to have a D&C the following week. So here we are with things ok financially and now all of a sudden our income is reduced drastically. I am a SAHM and my only income was $1400 from the rent houses. He slowly started looking for work. I did most of the job searches online and applying for things online for him. He went on interview after interview. He finally got a job through a hiring agency in April 2004. It was bringing in about $600/month less than the other job, but he finally had something and we had benefits again. One month after hubby got this job my rent house that was bringing in $900/month caught on fire. Almost the entire inside was gutted. I had insurance on it and we received enough to do renovations and have some left over. There were months that I had to dip into this money to pay our living expenses because of hubby being unemployed and then the loss of most of my income. I had a contract with a contractor and thought there was going to be plenty and wasn't as careful as I should've been. The contractor ended up scamming me and disappeared. So now I am out of money, the house is not finished. I did not know how I was going to come up with $8000 needed to finish the construction so that we could get another tenant in there to bring the income in again. I went to my dad's brother and told him what happened and he said he would loan me the money if we(hubby and I) would do a lot of the work ourselves. We ended up doing lots of painting, tried blowing insulation in the attic(hubby fell through ceiling), etc. Hubby had a fit because he was not qualified to be up there blowing insulation. So now he hates my uncle, hates that whole side of my family. Hubby says they've done nothing but bad for me and my brother and he thinks they're horrible people. So, we have our house because I got that inheritance, we have $1300/month coming in because of them, he got a truck because I paid the down payment from inheritance from that side of my family, but he hates them and thinks they're terrible people.
I returned to school full time in September 2004. I was able to go the fall semester and the spring semester. Then I had to start working part time to help supplement income. I could not go back this fall because we could not afford it. I started watching children in my home last April in order to be home with my kids and bring in income. We finally got the rent house back in shape, have a tenant and just started getting the income this month. I have told hubby repeatedly that he needs to get a 2nd job because we cannot make ends meet. We are so far behind on our house note and his truck note because of the reduced income for the past 18 months. Now he's talking about possibly selling his truck and/or his computer in order to pay some things and get us back on track. I do not want to go back to one vehicle for one because the down payment for that truck was from my inheritance... it will be wasted if it gets repoed. Two, I do not want to be without a vehicle, he would have to use it at night to go to work.
We have been in counseling for a month, but it seems to be going nowhere. For the past year any time I have tried to talk about a problem he's brushed me off by saying he's not talking about it. Or he'll say if it's that bad to leave. Or he'll say ok, let's just get divorced. He says I'm passive aggressive. He told me a year ago that I'm a terrible mother, a terrible wife. He said nothing he ever does is good enough for me. We should just go ahead and get a divorce because that would be the end to the fighting. Then the next day he'll be sweet and say he wants to work things out. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around him. I never know what kind of mood he'll be in. Around family he's so sweet and upbeat but here at home, he's miserable to be around most of the time. But occasionally he can be so nice. There are days that I think I love him and things will be ok, but there are more and more days that I am completely and utterly miserable.
Our kids can tell we are not happy. They are so insecure. They want to be held a lot and sleep with me at night. They do not like for me to be out of their sight.
I'll end this now, I feel like I've written a book. If anyone has any insight or advice I would love to hear it.
Jessica

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Bayoumom, I just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring your post. I've read it a few times, but there's no easy answer is there?
I'll think on it a bit more and get back to you.
Welcome to the board, Bayoumomof2 ~
I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get here, but if you've been lurking around here for any time at all you know I generally don't get here until late night. I wish I could be here earlier, I do peek in from work and I did see your post early in the day, but I can't get to it until I'm home.
It sounds like a lot has happened throughout your marriage, a lot to be upset, unhappy and discouraged about. I'm really glad you wrote "a book", it helps a lot to have a good look at the whole picture, so please don't feel you've said too much, you've helped us know your history and hopefully feel good about having gotten it all out? It always makes me feel better!
It sounds like you have a lot of resentment, disillusionment and disappointment where your husband is concerned, and I can't say that I think you're wrong to feel that way. It sounds like it started years ago and it continues to be a factor. As far as him blaming you for his having no friends, okay, you admitted you held him back and stopped him from doing the things he should have been able to do. That was then, you recognize that, apologize for that and no longer think he shouldn't be able to go out with his friends. It's too bad that his old friends are no longer there, but what's stopping him from going out and making new friends? If he wants friends, then go get 'em, end of story.
Something that's probably a big factor here is what you've already mentioned, that you've grown apart. When you're 17 and 22 you're not "done" yet, as I'm certain you know by now. At those ages you think you know exactly what you want, what you think, all of it, but the reality is that you don't have a clue. There are so many changes yet to come, so much maturing, refining, realizations and changes in what you want in your life. Not only that, but while you're changing, your partner is doing the same and those changes have little to do with each other, being together doesn't really seem to influence what direction you take, which means it's most likely that by the time you and your partner are finished changing, neither of you are what you were before and you're not as "right" for each other either. I like to liken it to earlier years: the guy you dated when you were 15 you thought was perfect, the best for you, but as you grew and evolved, he wasn't so great for you. The guy that was perfect for you at 15 wasn't even close to being right for you at 17, likewise the guy who was right for you at 17 isn't close to right for you at 25.
I will say it would be a while before you'll couples counseling will have had a chance to make a difference. If you've been going for a month, I'm guessing you've been probably four times maximum? That's not so much, and when you think about it, it took a lot more than a month for your marriage to get in the shape it's in, it'll take more than a month to make it better. Another aspect to consider, of course, is the commitment of the two people in counseling to work at this. What's your husband's view of going to counseling? Did he want to go, does he go willingly? Does he think it's a good thing? If he's just going to satisfy you and is really just going through the motions of being there, it's not likely to be too effective unless while he's there he becomes engaged and starts to get involved, which can happen.
The problems that you mention in your last paragraphs, the ones that are problems for you right now, have you brought those things up in counseling? If so, what is the response? He may refuse to talk about things, but I'd assume since he's in counseling, talking about the issues is something he's going to do, and hopefully something you'll learn to do better together. Walking on eggshells is lousy, been there myself. You said, "occasionally he can be so nice"; well the person you're with needs to be pleasant most of the time, not just occasionally, otherwise, living with them is a negative, not something you want to continue. How long has he been like this? What are your thoughts on counseling? I get the feeling you've got one foot out the door...
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Thank you iv aisha2004 and 2nd life for replying! I really appreciate it. Here's a little more information.
Hubby is also very, very irresponsible with money. I feel like I'm always trying to pinch pennies and he's constantly wanting to go blow money taking me and the kids out to eat or whatever. We have no extra money for extras and that seems to be all he cares about. He doesn't worry about the bills. I'm the one constantly trying to get it all paid. Then he wants me to turn all the bills over to him and me have no say in any of it. Every other month we get some kind of utility turned off. Whether it be electricity, gas, water, etc. It doesn't seem to phase him at all. He gets angry about it, goes and gets a payday loan and pays it, but that ends up putting us into overdraft every other month when that goes through. I am working 50 hours a week keeping kids in my home, I also have the rental income coming in. He's working 40 hours a week and we are not making ends meet. And he doesn't seem to care at all.
Oh yeah, we've stopped going to counseling. He said all the counselor suggested was a trial separation with hopes of reconciliation and he didn't think that was doing us any good. The counselor told him he might be depressed. So he's gotten on an anti depressant. His stand now is that he's gone to counseling, he's gotten on the anti depressant, what more could I want him to do.
I do know that I have a lot of resentment right now. For the past year I have told him I am not happy and we need help. For awhile he was saying that all we ever fought about was where to eat dinner because a lot of nights we ate out. That was so not true. I don't know if he was in denial or what. He seems to believe that if you over look problems, sweep them under the rug, they will go away.
He has a way of turning everything around to blame me. I will mention that I feel like I do everything around the house and he'll say if I saw you doing more I will help. Which is not true. He will watch tv or play computer games and get mad if I ask him to help. He has helped me do a thorough house cleaning one time in the past year.
He told the therapist that I'm controlling, possessive, he thinks that I don't love him. He said that everytime we talk we either fight, I tell him he's lying or I tell him he's not good enough. He said that he can't do anything to please me. I don't believe that's true, but I don't know what else to say. 3 out of the 4 sessions we have been to he has lied in. It's usually small petty things, but still a lie. At the last session he told the therapist that I told him that I don't love him, I'm not in love with him and I'll be better off without him.
There are times that I definitely think he's only going because I pushed the issue. I can't tell if he's willing to try or not. On the friends issue, I have told him many times that I was wrong and I am sorry. I have told him that I want him to go out and do things with friends, but he still doesn't now. There were several entire weekends the first 4 years or so of our marriage that he went away for the entire weekend to play computer games with guy friends, but he seems to have forgotten that.
As of this week he's blaming our problems on us having kids too young, too early in our marriage. I feel like he cannot take the blame on anything. I told him that our issues are both of our faults, we need to work on them and get past them. One day he'll tell me let's just separate and/or divorce because that will be an end to the fighting and the next day he will say he wants to try to work things out. I feel like I'm on a roller coaster.
Wow, sounds like you're trying to manage an extra child there. And a teenager none the less.
Based on what you've written, my gut instinct tells me that you should walk away. I'm a firm believer that children are better off with one parent than being in a dysfuntional marriage. Not only is he a role model for them, but the kids are worried and frightened about the situation.
However, before I totally slam his behaviour - I'm wondering why you're still there. Is it fear of change or is there some good stuff that keeps you hanging on? Is there a positive side to his personality?
And a financial question for you. You're both working but there is not enough money for utilities. My DH and I recently noticed that we also were going backwards financially so we collected all our receipts for a month to figure out where the money goes and made decisions on how better to manage the money. Where to cut back costs etc. (I also keep track of all the utility payments). Do you know where all your money goes? What are the biggest drains on the money?
Once you've identified where all the money goes, you must sit down *together* and decide where to cut back. I would bet that a contributing reasons to your husband being financially irresponsible is because he feels that he's not getting a say in how the money is spent. A lot of the cut-backs will involve compromise. (At present, there seems to be no compromise - he wants to sell the 2nd truck and you won't. You want to cut back on take-out but he won't)
When building a workable budget, there must be money for nice things. For example, if having take-out is important to him, then budget to have it, say, once per week. But buy cheap take-out (pizza - not Thai). If he sees the 2nd truck as a big drain on your cash, then perhaps consider down sizing to a smaller, cheaper car.
You can also save a fortune on your food bills. For example, don't buy ready made meals and sauces - instead make them from scratch. Home made sauces are not only cheaper, but healthier (less salt and chemical additives). Is anyone overweight? If so there's an obvious food saving right infront of you. Get healthy AND save money LOL
Smoking? Does anyone have a 'pack a day' habit? What about clothing? I buy all my stuff from goodwill stores and chain stores. It saves me a fortune and I still look good.
In short, the budget thing is all about discussion and compromise. And about both parties being able to have a say and feel heard.
Edited 10/20/2005 6:30 pm ET by iv_aisha2004
Before you think we're totally clueless about how difficult it is to manage money with a guy like this, let me tell you that my ex-husband (alcoholic) was very irresponsible with money. I was always the one to "manage" the money, pay the bills and make ends meet while he spent whatever he wanted, whenever he felt like it without so much as letting me know or checking to make sure we could afford it. Of course, if/when our account was empty it was my fault and he'd demand to know what I'd done with all the money. Silly me, frittering it away on power bills, mortgage and food. It was nothing unusual for him to withdraw $200 from the ATM and say nothing until I was freaking because our account was overdrawn. Somehow I was supposed to know how much he'd be randomly pulling out for himself (not that I ever got any spending money, how could I, there was nothing left!) and magically make it all work with money to spare. I used to describe him as a 10-year old with a driver's license and an ATM card. It was a very stressful situation, to say the least and one I'm glad I'm no longer in.
Funny that Aisha would suggest your husband is like a child (teenager) that's a liability and responsibility of yours rather than a partner, I was thinking the same thing before I read her response.
Am I understanding you right that while in the past your husband's gone to counseling not because he wanted to but because you wanted him to and that he's now decided he won't go back? I wanted to make sure I was correct that he's not willing to go back to counseling.
Based on what you've said in this post and in your previous post, I wonder why you've stayed? What's there for you? What makes you happy in your marriage and your life? We've heard a lot of problems and issues, and it sounds like your husband is very immature and irresponsible. It sounds like he wants what he wants, period, no matter what. Responsibilities (like bills) don't matter, he seems to think he should just get to have whatever he wants. (I wish I could do that, bet you do too!) It sounds like your husband takes no responsibility and puts all the blame for everything on you. You're the sole adult in your household. So, why do you stay?
I understand wanting to work through your problems, but you can't work through anything with someone who continues to be untruthful about you, your relationship and the situation. Your counselor suggested your husband might be depressed. My guess is that your husband isn't willing to do anything about that, right? Has he gone in for a diagnosis, is he willing to try some medications or alternative methods to try and help himself? My guess is no. You may feel bad for him that he's depressed and you may feel obligated to stay and support him through his depression, but the truth is, he's the only one who can do anything at all about it. He has to manage it, deal with it and work to resolve it. If he doesn't or won't, I don't see any reason for you to punish yourself by staying with someone who refuses to do anything about their problem. Living in that environment isn't good for your kids either.
Did I read you right that your counselor suggested a separation? What do you think about that? And the big question: What do you want for you?
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
>>I don't believe she was suggesting that you should turn over bill paying to him<<
Absolutely not! I was just working towards having a budget that's mutually acceptable. Something that meets the essentials, but still has a little left over for the nice things in life.
I mentioned earlier that DH and I had learn to budget recently because our mortgage was going backwards. We were tending to fritter away money without considering consequence. As a result of our budgeting, we're not only making our mortgage payments - but we're ahead by about $1,200 per month on average!!! Our mortgage is suddenly booming ahead and we're not even feeling the pinch.
What we've done is this: 1st of all, dramatically cut credit card use. All our utilities and mortgage are paid direct from our checking account BEFORE any other expenses come out - this ensures that the crucial stuff is taken care of. Other items such as kid's clothes and groceries etc are paid for with cash. Meanwhile, DH and I have both added up our personal expenses (clothing, lunch with friends, travel costs, haircuts, hobbies) and worked out a weekly budget for it. If I choose to spend all my money on clothing - then I have no money for hobbies till next pay. Back to utilities....if it's a pay period with no bills, I put money aside to help with large upcoming bills. Because I keep track of what I've paid over the last few years, I know what to expect on any given month.
It's important to note that our budget is a work in progress. Both of us initially underestimated how much money we'd need on a weekly basis, so we had to re-juggle the money. We've upped my personal spending by $20 per week from my original estimate.
Lastly, the frivilous items like new cameras, new furniture etc is only bought after we've paid the mortgage and bills. And after we've saved for it.
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. :) I really appreciate getting some ideas and advice on this.
There are times that I do feel like my husband is my third child. I hate that it's like that. I have told him that I feel that way and he'll turn around and say it's because I'm so controlling. No one else has told me that ever, except him. I have to remind him to do most everything. Lots of days I have to ask if he's brushed his teeth before we leave the house to go somewhere. I usually have to ask him to take out the trash and by then it's overflowing. I know I could do it, but darnit I think he should do something and not just sit around when he's at home.
It could be that part of the reason he spends so irresponsibly is because he feels like he's not in control. He always likes to have the newest and best everything... ex. a new computer every 2 years or so. He insists on these things no matter what. Camcorder, digital camera, big screen tv, etc.
We do not have any expensive habits. I do like to drink wine, but that is usually about 1 bottle per month, if that. Neither of us smokes. Our biggest drain is eating out. There have been months that $600 has been spent on dining out. He refuses to eat sandwiches. He says it's easier and faster to go pick something up. He usually only eats one meal a day and that's supper time. He works nights so he sleeps through breakfast and lunch. Right now he's working from 7PM-3:30AM. He usually sleeps till around 2PM. Then wants to know what's for supper as soon as he gets up. There has been many times that he has skipped meals because I was not cooking and he wouldn't cook for himself. Or if he doesn't like what I'm fixing and I refuse to go pick something up he'll refuse to eat.
We have tried a budget but his idea of a budget is just to input everything into quicken... not make any plans. We've tried tracking expenses and the drain is always dining out/take out.
I am definitely overweight. I am an emotional eater and eat all the time.
UH OH..................
I feel like the flood gates are opening after reading this. I realized that I meant to answer iv aisha's question about why I'm staying after replying to her so I'll answer the question that both of you have asked in this reply.
FEAR...... is the biggest reason I think. Fear of change, fear of being alone(even though I'll have my kids), fear of having to make all of the decisions, fear of not living with another adult. I have never been alone. I left my mom's at 17 when I married my husband. I am terrified that I won't be able to make ends meet financially. My daughter will not be in school till next year and I do not want to put her in daycare. She is very much a momma's girl and wants to be with me all the time. Fear that he will try to get custody of the kids. He has said he will not, but I don't know if I trust him. There are times that I wonder if I've tried enough. I feel like a failure and I hate that. I hate that our marriage is not working out. I know people get divorced all the time, but I wanted to believe it wouldn't happen to me.
Not to mention that my parents divorced when I was 4 and my mom told me a few years ago when I told her that we were having problems that the worst mistake of her life was leaving my dad. That was 20 years later! I don't want to feel that way.
Fear of raising my children in a single parent home. I've had it drilled into my head so many times that the kids need mom and dad together and I'm scared I'm going to terribly hurt them in the long run if we do split up.
I feel so tormented. There are times that I think he is a good man and I do love him, but not as a wife should love her husband. I do not respect him for making me work so many hours while I was in school and not doing anything at all to help pick up the slack. I do not respect him for making me do everything with the house, the bills, the kids.
It seems like this downhill slide started when I started getting inheritance from my family. We have fought so much more since then. We are usually either fighting or not speaking. But occasionally there is a good day.
He did go to counseling alone about 6 months ago or so because I told him he must go because I could not stand the constant negativity and bad moods. He went for 3 visits then said he was fine... it wasn't helping. Then when we started going to counseling a month ago it was because I told him we either had to go to counseling or had to separate. I could not take being so unhappy any longer. So he said FINE, let's go. We didn't make our last appointment because of a conflict with the babysitter. We didn't reschedule. The therapist recommended my husband come in for a few sessions alone because of the lying then he wanted to see us again together. My husband said he would do it, but it's been 2 weeks and he has not made an appointment. He is on an antidepressant right now. The therapist suggested going to his doctor and getting on one so he did. His doctor just talked to him and said he could understand him being depressed and put him on it. Dh told me the other day that he's gone to counseling, he's on medication which he hates and he doesn't know what else he could possibly do to make me happy. He said he's done everything I've asked.
The counselor did suggest a separation. We haven't done it because we do not see any way we could possibly pay for 2 households when we're struggling with one.
There's definitely not any happiness in this marriage for me right now and there hasn't been for awhile. There are times that I wish I could just go to sleep and never wake up so I never have to see him again. I would never do anything to harm myself, I love my kids too much. I am miserable, though.
Then I have my mom telling me to finish school first and get my degree before I do anything because I might lose everything I have worked so hard to get. House, vehicle, etc.
From what you're telling me, it doesn't sound like there's much hope for your marriage. It takes two to make a marriage work and it sounds as though neither of you have the heart to work on this any longer. And I for one, don't blame you far having lost heart. There comes a time when after you've tried for so long, that you just can't do it anymore.
I also understand your delaying leaving him. It must be done in your own time - when you're ready. However, in the meantime, I would suggest that you get some legal advice to figure out what your rights are re protecting your assets and your rights to custody of the children. At the very least, it will take away your fears of the unknown.
Whatever happens, I do believe that you should keep an eye on your children and their fears. Yes, children do deserve a mother and father - but even more so, they deserve a HAPPY AND LOVING mother and father. Anything less is more harmful than being the child of a solo parent. They'd be far better off with you happy and secure than in a state of constant conflict. Yes, you finishing your degree is important, but there may come a time when you decided that the children just can't take any more conflict...and in this case, your education may have to come second.
Whle you are staying with your husband, you have to get a handle on the finances. Go back to those budgets and get them working with or without his help. Don't trust your husband to not touch the money for utilities - instead, on payday remove the money for essentials before he has a chance to spend it. Surely he can't argue against putting aside money for essentials - it's the most basic part of budgeting.
My only thing that I would caution you against doing is pestering him to brush his teeth before he goes out. That is going a bit too far. And I'm guessing that there are other basic things you have to ask him to do. Clean clothes, deodorant etc? It's his choice to be a slob and, yes, I can see how your pushing him to do basic stuff would be annoying to him. However, if he CHOOSES to be a disgusting grub, you're well within your rights to say "You're not coming out with me looking/smelling like that". Basically, it's a different way of tackling the same issue. One of my friends told her husband that he couldn't come to a wedding with her unless he got a haircut. He refused to get a haircut so she didn't take him. She then met the man of her dreams at the wedding and is now out of a miserable marriage and happily remarried to the man of her dreams.
Thoughts and questions, Bayoumom.
Fear. Yep, I get that one. I was terrified of being alone with the kids, the responsibility seemed too great, too scary, more than I could do on my own. I also expected that I'd be alone for the rest of my life, that no guy would possibly be interested in me, a woman in her 30's with kids. Let me list your fears and tell you where my reality on the same fears sunk in; I think they may ring true for you.
Fear of not being able to make ends meet financially. My husband had, in the past, been unemployed for a year. It wasn't easy, but during that time I managed to keep the mortgage and bills paid and keep food on the table. Since I'd managed to keep us afloat on my own, I could certainly do it without him; I'd proven that. You've kept things going while he was unemployed too, right? In your situation, if I read right, your husband is a big drain on your fiances, he buys trucks, wide screen TVs, etc., always wanting the newest and best of everything. In my situation, my husband was sucking hundreds of dollars out of our account whenever he felt like it. So, when you consider life without him, you have to consider life without those big ticket purchases and payments too. You're not going to want to buy, buy, buy, right? That's a plus for you, it'll be expense that won't be incurred and won't be coming out of your pocket, more proof that you most certainly can make it on your own.
Fear of having to make all the decisions. From what I've heard, you're the rational one, the one who pays the bills and manages the finances. What decisions does he make? What decisions does he help you with? And if there are things he actually decides and helps with besides pressuring for a new sound system, what decisions does he make that you actually need his help to decide? I think this one is truly just fear of change. You're comfortable running the show, making the decisions with him being there, take him out of the picture and nothing really changes, you're still making the decisions. You're the capable, responsible one.
Fear of not living with another adult. He's an adult? Maybe chronologically, but emotionally, maturity, responsibility? No way. He's like living with my husband -- a ten year old with a driver's license and a debit card. He's a liability, not an asset, something you have to try to manage and supervise like a kid, he's not an adult and certainly isn't a partner.
Fear of being alone. Big one for me too, though it seemed pathetic being willing to stay in a miserable situation to avoid being alone. It was not at all how I wanted to think of myself, selling out to misery for the rest of my life to avoid a chance at happiness? What I found out is that life on the outside changes you, your tension is gone, a huge weight is lifted from your shoulders, all those concerns, fears and dreads you had around your husband and the issues you had with him just vanish. You're happy and relaxed and it shows. Your attitude and outlook will attract people, male and female. I doubt you'll be alone unless that's what you choose. And even if you did end up alone, is it worth living a life like you have now to avoid?
Your daughter is a momma's girl and wants to be with me all the time. Do you think part of that clinginess could be because of the problems and stress that are hanging over your house? You said earlier the kids know there are problems and are sleeping with you. It's likely that your daughter's clinginess will fade when the situation you're living in are gone. Besides, she's going to be forced to unstick herself from you soon enough, she can't take you to school with her! Marriage problems weigh heavy on the kids, it affects their emotional state, their comfort level, their very well-being. When I asked my husband to leave it nearly tore me in two listening to my son cry himself to sleep calling loudly for daddy. Honestly, at that point (day one), I questioned my decision to end it because of my son's reaction. But within a week my kids were so much happier, so much more relaxed and easy. Our house was a happy, relaxed place to be; it was absolutely amazing. I'd had no idea the kids were being affected, honestly thought they were oblivious to the problems and were happy, healthy kids. I was sooo wrong.
Fear that he will try to get custody of the kids. Using what as grounds that the kids would be better off with him? The first thing judges look at in a custody battle is what's least disruptive for the kids. Considering you've been the primary care giver all this time, you're the one who stays home with them now, he'd have a hard time making a case for their lives staying more the same if you weren't living with them anymore. I'd suggest you make an appointment to get an initial consultation with a divorce attorney. The first consultation will be free and you're not obligated to go further with a divorce, but what you can gain is the information on what you can and should be doing so that you don't unknowingly do something to hurt yourself in a divorce. You'll also almost certainly have many of your fears eased when you hear the truth of what can and cannot happen in a divorce. Getting the facts will only help you.
There are times that I wonder if I've tried enough. I feel like a failure and I hate that. I hate that our marriage is not working out. It takes two people to make a marriage work. That means working together, being a responsible adult and actively working to make it better. Your husband pushes to spend more than you can afford, complains constantly, blames you for everything (including things that happened years ago). Based on what you've said here he takes no responsibility AND when you go to get help, he lies. How is any of this your fault? How can you expect anyone to make things work out under these conditions? You can only do your part, if he's not doing his, you are not a failure. HE has failed your marriage, not you. Will staying make it better? Will staying make it different? Bear in mind, you can't change him, only he can do that, and he doesn't seem to want to.
Your mom told you that the worst mistake of her life was leaving my dad. What made it a mistake for her? Do you know why she has regrets? Were the problems she had with her husband the same problems you're having? If not, you can't compare her experience with yours. Every relationship, every marriage is different as are the problems in them. Unless you know the problems she had and why she regrets the divorce you can't accept what she said as a blanket statement that will apply to you.
Fear of raising my children in a single parent home. Weren't you raised in a single parent home? You seem to be okay.... you've had it drilled into your head so many times that the kids need mom and dad together that you're scared your going to terribly hurt them in the long run if we do split up. Have you considered what living like they're living now is doing to them? You don't think this is terribly hurtful for them? He's complaining, blaming you for everything, unhappy, depressed, buying things you can't afford. You're trying to keep the bills paid, worrying about money, probably arguing and fighting with him about it. The tension in your house has to be thick. Your boys are learning how to be a father, a man, a husband, by watching what your husband does, your girls are learning to be a mother, a woman, a wife by what they see you do and what transpires between you two. The relationship you have with your husband is their view of how adult life should be led. They're learning the lines the two of you use, the way you communicate with each other, the way you deal with each other, they're rehearsing your roles just as if they were learning roles for a play. The play they're rehearsing for is their lives and the roles they have to model after, to learn from is what you present. You're teaching them to be just like the two of you are. In situations that are unhealthy, kids can learn much better how to be happy, healthy adults and how to have caring, respectful, responsible relationships with one parent whereas they cannot learn that by living with them both.
I understand about feeling tormented, you want something to be a way it isn't. You care about him, but your deep feelings are gone, eroded away after years of living with a man who isn't responsible or respectful. You probably feel guilty that you don't feel stronger than you do for him. What finally dawned on me was that part of the reason I stayed was because I felt sorry for him (he was unhappy, depressed too). Somehow I thought I could help him battle his demons and be happy, I even thought just living in the environment I was trying to maintain he'd "get" how it was to be a normal, responsible person and we'd have that relationship I pictured in my mind. I finally realized that I couldn't help him battle his demons, they were his demons, not mine, in his head, not mine. How could I help him fight something that I didn't have any part in? I also realized that the only person who was trying to help him find happiness was me, he wasn't. How did I expect to be able to bring him to happiness? I couldn't. The only person who could do that was him, and he wasn't even trying. I realized that while I felt sorry for the way he felt and the way he was, it wasn't my fault and I wasn't willing to pay for the way he felt for the rest of my life.
What I really think is that you know all this, you're just getting to the point that you're taking very real, very hard and very honest looks at it. I can tell you two things:
I hope I gave you some things to think about, and maybe made you feel a little better about the way you're thinking, the way your feeling and the fears you have.1) No one can tell you to go but you.
2) There will never be a "good time" to end it. If you're waiting for it to seem right, for things to be "just right" for ending it, you'll never leave. There will always be a reason it's not a good time and you'll always be able to make an excuse as to why later would be better. But you also have to be ready, in your head, I mean. For me, I knew we were done six months before I asked him to leave, it took me that long to settle everything in my head (I guess) to be ready. Then one morning I woke up and knew that I couldn't live like this for another day. There was no problem between us at the time, no fighting going on, nothing. I was just done. We'd been married for 17 years, I was a stay-at-home mom with two kids and no job in sight.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
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