Hoping for insight.........(m)

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-06-2005
Hoping for insight.........(m)
21
Sun, 11-06-2005 - 10:46pm

.....from someone in a long term marriage/relationship, or someone knowledgeable.

I'll try to condense the story...lol. My husband and I have been married nearly 18 years. The first four years were spent in the military (him), and they were stressful to due his duties, but stable. And we were happy. Pretty poor (lol), but happy.

Lots of stuff has happened in between - he got out of the military, went to work, etc, etc, etc. As far as I knew, we were always happy for the most part.

8 years into our marriage, he confessed to an indiscretion that occurred during his time overseas in the military. We cried together, and I told him I forgave him. And I really did. We had managed to spend 8 happy years since, so even though I was in pain, I wrote it off as an immature, isolated act, and we proceeded. I don't think he ever had another episode like that exactly, but he is somewhat of a flirt. He was taking college classes, and I found notes that he had exchanged with girls in class. They were flirtatious notes, but didn't seem to lead to anything physical. I did confront him about some of them, but he stated that I was over-reacting. I convinced myself that he's just a flirt, and that I'd just have to deal with it.

The college years passed, we had another baby, and we both matured a great deal. Everything seemed wonderful. We led a crazy busy life, but I believed we were happy. Our kids were involved in things, we were involved in those same clubs, activities, etc. We had lots of great friends that we interacted with, and we even managed an annual romantic "escape" to a certain spot that we love.

A few months ago, his work took him away for a major project. The project is lucrative, so it's not one that he could easily turn down. For the first few weeks, we talked on the phone obsessively, and missed each other very, very much. I took the kids for a visit, and it was nice. Then, I went for a visit alone. He was busy with work, but it was still nice. We managed to spend SOME quality time.

Then after that, things got kind of weird. He was planning a visit home, but when he got off the plane, he immediately acted strange. He normalized after a little while, so I blew it off. We were intimate that night, and everything seemed fine. I figured he had just been nervous about coming home. But the next day, everything seemed weird again. That night, I couldn't stand it any longer, so I asked him point blank if everything was ok. After a little coaxing, he finally said that for the last 10 years or so, he feels that we have just been "good friends" and not a married couple. When I asked if he still loved me, he actually paused and said, "I Love you.....I just don't know that I'm IN love with you." My heart sank. I was like, "What?? Where is THIS coming from??" Then he proceeded to tell me how he feels that my level of affection had decreased to the point where he just felt that we were friends. I asked him, But what about all our trips together? The places we've gone? Our plans and dreams? So he admits that there were *times* that things felt good, but not ALL the time.

Ok, I'm not buying this. There have been times RECENTLY where we would sit and talk, holding hands over the table, and he would have that special look in his eyes that just radiates emotion. Plus, when he first went away, he would say (on the phone)"You have NO idea how much I miss you...." and he would sneak and make babysitting arrangements, then surprise me with the news that I was flying out for a few days.

Now if you're thinking "another woman," I've got to say....it really isn't likely. Given the circumstances of his job, women are few, and the ones there are quite a bit older. Plus, I am practically always able to reach him by cell phone, and he never seems "caught" if you know what I mean. PLUS, he claims to really want to fix things. He still calls a couple of times a day, and we talk. He even tells me that he loves me before he hangs up. And yes, I do still love him, very much. I know he wasn't always such a good boy, but I'd like to think he's grown up a bit in recent years. He says that he is "Hopeful" in regards to our working things out. I'll tell you - this guy is unique. He works so hard, that he works himself into a frenzy and causes himself a TREMENDOUS amount of stress. So stressed in fact, that he gets migraines.

If you've hung this far, thank you SO MUCH.

So these are the possibilities I'm thinking. I would LOVE input/advice.

a. Maybe he's (unconsciously) resentful of me for getting to spend all the time with our kids. (he's crazy about them!)

b. Maybe he's applying a defense mechanism. If his feelings are "off," then he doesn't have to miss me while he's away? That would certainly explain why this came up so suddenly and recently.

The main thing I'd like to know is this: Could it be perfectly normal for a man to question his feelings about his partner after 18 years under stressful conditions, but eventually come back around? (If anyone knows for a fact this can happen, PLEASE let me know)

Part of me just wants to fix this no matter the cost....I do love him. Another part of me is angry! If I did withdraw my affection at times, it was no wonder! It was HARD WORK getting past that indiscretion, plus all the flirty notes. I've stood by and waited patiently during his military time, and now during a very demanding career. I care for our children alone while he is away at this time, and I just can't believe that he has come up with this. Worst of all, we have to try and fix this over long distance and the weekends that we are together. Not easy!

Like I said, if you got this far. You are an angel. I am so anxious for advice on this. Thanks in advance for any that you can offer. My heart has felt like it's had a knife plunged into it for about a week now.

Thanks again!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 11-07-2005 - 3:02am

Welcome to the board, Chin_up ~


I hope you'll plan to stay for a while, I have a feeling your post will generate a lot of responses, a lot of questions, a lot of things that will necessitate continued communication between you and the other members. And no, your post was not too long, lol, clearly you haven't seen any of mine yet. I have no excuse for mine, but for you, it's important to tell the whole story, to give us a good picture of what's going on so we can offer thoughts and suggestions based on what's really the case rather than what we assume. Being inclusive is important. Also, writing it all out is venting and venting can be very helpful to you, so from both aspects, writing as much as you need to and as much as you want to is very much allowed and encouraged.


First of all - and I know you know this - none of us is going to *know* what's up with your husband, we can guess and maybe be pretty close to right, but we don't really know, only he does, and it's entirely possible that he doesn't consciously know either.


Question right off the bat --


  • do I hear you correctly that your husband wants to work on this problem, to correct it, to make things right between you again?
  • If my understanding is correct and he does want to work on it, what does he suggest doing? Couples counseling or what? What does he suggest as a way to work on this?
  • How long ago was the college flirtation thing? Any sign of that since that time?
  • What was the result of your discovering it and confronting him, did he say he would end the communication?


    This may not be helpful to you, but you're struggling to justify his explanation when in fact, based on what you've said, it doesn't make sense. And, if it doesn't make sense, it can't be justified. Maybe this will sound stupid but what I've come to realize is that things like this that leave a question mark in your head need to be viewed as what they are -- red flags. I'm guessing that typically you don't have a hard time understanding people, not people in general, not your husband; pretty much when they explain things to you, you get it, it makes sense. Things like this don't make sense because you don't get it, they don't make sense because they're poorly constructed lame excuses that aren't reasonable, logical or sensible. You're struggling to make sense of this because it comes from someone you believe, but the fact is, based on the close, loving relationship you've indicated that's between you, it doesn't hold water.


    I don't think your "a" possibility holds water, unless he's very good at pretending to be happy for years and years, all the while feeling neglected and unloved. Most of us aren't capable of putting on that kind of show without letting our wants, needs and feelings be known. Besides, it sounds like the two of you had a good, healthy amount of time together, nurturing your relationship; it sounds like he was just as involved with the kids as you were, it sounds like he was involved right along with you.


    No offense, but I don't think your "b" possibility makes sense. He's pushing you away and saying the relationship's been bad for years so he won't have to miss you? Do you really think he can brainwash himself to turn off his feelings like that? And at the expense of hurting you? What point would there be in creating problems and distance when he was with you, when he didn't have to miss you?


    I know you said you don't believe there's another woman involved, but I suspect at least a part of you thinks it might be possible or you wouldn't have mentioned it (or were you just trying to give us full, honest history?). I am not one to throw suspicion or make accusations where no cause exists, and I have no idea whether I'm right or not, but based on what you've said, I suspect there may be a third party involved. His previous actions indicate a repeat is likely and his odd actions and illogical explanations would further suggest it. If he's wanting to work through this, it could be an affair that's over, that he's feeling guilt about, and he's distanced himself from you as a result of the affair. Realize too that in this day and age, emotional affairs are not at all uncommon -- the romantic notes passed with the college student was an emotional affair. The internet makes emotional affairs very easy to find and maintain. While they may not be physical, They are just as much cheating as physical affairs, as the intimacy shared is a violation of your relationship; the intimacy that should be shared only between the two of you. It is indeed a breech of fidelity. Emotional affairs have the potential to become physical at any time, meetings can easily be set up. There are a couple of articles in our Information and Resources section that address emotional affairs:
    Is It Cheating?
    Is it just friends or infidelity?


    If I were in your shoes, I would press for a better answer. Frankly, I wouldn't accept any answer that made sense, and what he's saying doesn't make sense. One way or another, he's holding out on you.


    To answer your question though, marriages ebb and flow, good times, bad times, strong feelings, uncertain feelings. I'm sure you've felt some of that yourself from time to time. But what's going on with you is certainly a little more severe than the usual ebbs and flows. I don't think it's possible for your husband to have suddenly, after years of a happy, loving relationship to suddenly lose those feelings out of the blue, without there being something behind it. If he's truly been unhappy all these years, he's certainly hid it well, and if that's the case, if he's been so darned unhappy for so long, why does he want to work on it now? I've heard of people (and I'm one) who woke up one day and said, "I can't do this anymore", but to say, "I've been unhappy for years and now I want to work on it?" That isn't logical. If he wanted to make it better, he'd have said something a long time ago. I think his distance and weird behavior was based in guilt and his desire to rebuild is based on the same, he's the one who's caused the distance, his "blaming" you (your level of affection had decreased to the point where he just felt that we were friends) is a smokescreen that puts the focus on you and keeps it off him and the real reason for his change.


    Whatever the reason for his behavior, I don't blame you for being angry. Like you said, you've put up with more than your share of crap from him (past indiscretions), worked hard to get through them (no easy feat, very hard to deal with emotionally) have struggled through military life, etc., have years that sound pretty darned good only to wind up with this for all you patience, struggles and hard work. You've already done the hard work, you deserve Easy Street.






  • ~ cl-2nd_life

    "You can't control the length of your life,
    but you can control the width and depth."

    ~ Author unknown

    my signature exchange partner:








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 11-06-2005
    Mon, 11-07-2005 - 7:05am

    Thanks so much for your reply. I only have a few minutes, as I am out the door soon, but was so eager to read your response and address the questions that you asked.

    Yes, he does want to work on the problem and makes things right again. He is not interested in counseling (would be impossible right now anyway with him being away). He himself did not come up with a specific method of 'fixing' us, but we mutually agreed that we would slowly try to rebuild, focusing on intimacy and affection. (one of his key complaints is lack of affection over the last 10 years, and that we've grown more into just friends).

    The college flirtation thing occured 6 to 7 years ago. I've not seen anything since....when confronted with it, he said I was over-reacting. He seemed to feel that it was basically harmless conversation (the girl started out by asking for his advice about her older boyfriend, and his response was just flirtatious - no meeting or evidence of further conversation were evident in the note.)

    I've got to run for now.....time is slipping away this morning. Have a great day, and Thanks again!

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Mon, 11-07-2005 - 9:29am

    The college note thing was 6-7 years ago and he's had a problem with your relationship not being close enough for the last 10 years or so? Well, based on that timeline, I can understand where it wouldn't have been as intimate and affectionate. Totally understandable.

    My $.02 so far (though depending on what else gets said it might change), he has unrealistic expectations. It sounds as though you have been working on the whole intimacy thing (I would LOVE to get away once a year with my DH), you have small children (or at least one of them is small), he has a hard, demanding job that would take time to reconnect with each other, etc etc. AND you still have an affectionate marriage. I feel the level of affection he wants is too high to maintain right now. It CAN'T be constant. There will be times where you two are acting like good friends and times where you can be more intimate, etc. They go together. I get the feeling he wants the latter to be more prevalent. And maybe he isn't going to be satisified with it being more often but it has to be more often than all the other times?

    And I have to say, his acting weird when he got off the plane and the next day, that doesn't quite add up to me either.

    I'm sorry you've been thrown like this and you have to deal with yet something else. It sounds like you've been kept on your toes and that every few years your whole marriage has some type of "crisis" that you have to work through. That isn't fair (though not much in life is) and it would be very tiring.

    Jen

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 11-06-2005
    Mon, 11-07-2005 - 10:27am

    Wow...it's almost as though you guys have crystal balls. You're both obviously very wise. Words cannot express how much I appreciate your taking the time to reply. Jen, you hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that there is a crisis every few years. How true! About the time things start to go smoothly, something happens to toss everything off kilter again. And 2nd life, you're right - it doesn't make sense that he should just now decide to 'fix' things after supposedly feeling this way for a decade. If you'll recall, I mentioned that I had to coax him to get him to admit this. So according to him, THAT would be why he is suddenly willing to work it out. Because I pressed him, and made him admit this.

    In talking, he says that he regrets admitting to me that he has questioned his feelings. He says that he can see how badly I was hurt, and that if he'd kept quiet, then at least I would be happy. So I asked, "But don't you think it's better to have this out in the open so that we can deal with it and BOTH be happy?" But he maintains that it might have been better to just let me live happy (I call it ignorant).

    Ok, so maybe I did force him into admitting his feelings. That would explain the sudden desire to improve (having the negative looming over us), but it does NOT explain his strange moods. Now in his defense, he has a few things going against him. The main thing is, he rarely sees his children. He ADORES our kids, so that alone is heartwrenching. And with work, there is a Stupendous amount of pressure on him regarding this project. Days are long and hard, and even when he's "off," there is still computer/paperwork that must be done. He is literally running ragged, and there is no end in site for weeks. It's psychologically and physically draining. I really feel for him in that sense. In fact, I couldn't do it - no way I could be separated from the kids that way.

    Anyway, I guess I'm just trying to be fair to him. He goes through a lot, but then again so do I. I've assured him that I too want and miss the affection, but it's like you said Jen, right now, it just can't be that way. Not contantly at least.

    Thank you both TONS. I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom.

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Mon, 11-07-2005 - 12:06pm

    Here's another thought I've had. Is your DH insecure? At least in how you (or women in general) would view him? Is it possible that every few years he manufactures something so that you can "prove" you love him by getting over it or working on it? I could be totally off here so if the answer is no, that works for me.

    Jen

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 09-06-2003
    Mon, 11-07-2005 - 2:31pm

    Not sure I follow your train of thought, Jen. How could a guy who's had physical and emotional affairs in the past be considered "shy with women"? Do you really think he could shine it on for all those years pretending to be happy and actively doing things that promote their relationship when (supposedly) he's really not satisfied?

    Trying to understand where you're coming from before I answer this one myself. I'm thinking I must be missing something big time 'cause I'm not getting this at all.....

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Mon, 11-07-2005 - 5:14pm

    Marcy,

    I think you might be mixing up posters/posts. I never asked/said maybe he was shy. I asked about insecure with what women thought of him. And I also said in an earlier post that this (him bringing up this issue all the sudden) didn't jive for me with his reasoning, etc.

    Jen

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 09-06-2003
    Mon, 11-07-2005 - 6:24pm

    Sorry Jen, I guess I was throwing shy and insecure in the same category. I'll reword my question, but it's basically the same, How could a guy who's had physical and emotional affairs in the past be considered "insecure with women"? He seems secure enough to have an full-blown affair and get involved in a face-to-face emotional affair. It seems to me "insecure" and "engaging in affiars" describe conflicting personalities.

    I apologize for the rest, I read you to be saying you thought the reason he gave his wife was reasonable. On reading it again I see that's not at all what you said.

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 11-06-2005
    Mon, 11-07-2005 - 8:26pm

    Jen,

    He is insecure at times - yes. It's strange really, at times he seems confident and strong, while other times, he really seeks assurance over the silliest things. Like a little boy, almost. For instance, (and I had forgotten about this) a few weeks ago before all this came up, he had a dream that I had announced that I want a divorce. So he called me up in the wee hours of the morning saying that the dream really shook him up, and just wanted to make sure that it was ONLY a dream, and I didn't really feel that way. Naturally, I reassurred him with all my might that it was just that - a very bad dream. He was satisfied, but seemed emotionally clingy for a day or two, wanting to talk on the phone for longer than normal.

    This just gets stranger and stranger doesn't it? So much just doesn't add up, and that's why I am so consumed by this. And confused!

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Mon, 11-07-2005 - 9:31pm

    <>

    I'm not saying he's insecure with women, I'm saying he could be insecure with how he thinks women view him. Ie, he doesn't feel attractive or desirable so he seeks out women to "reassure" him that he is indeed desirable. It could be (and these are total guesses on my part) that this newest incident is his way of getting reassured of whatever his insecurities are. Whether he doesn't think a woman could really love him, that he is insecure about how attractive he is, etc etc. And it's just a theory, I am in no way saying that this is the way it is.

    Jen

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