Marriage on 'stones' due to inlaws

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Marriage on 'stones' due to inlaws
29
Wed, 10-04-2006 - 8:00pm

Hi,

This is quite a long one, and I'd like to state a few basic facts before I start:

* We have been married 7 years, now with a 14 month old - joy of our lives. Ironically, he was the start to our troubles.
* We moved countries (from India to UK) in the last months of my pregnancy, and had to deal with new baby, new jobs, new country, no friends etc. in a short span of time.
* I am from India, and typically, marriage is based on traditional roles there. However, I come from a 'forward' family, both parents worked (I am the only child), and my parents believe in women's rights. However, Hubby comes from very traditional set up.
* I've had a rocky relationship with my MIL right from the start, and to tell you the absolute truth, she is nasty to a lot of people - her own brothers sisters and other relatives acknowledge this fact.

We 'had' a wonderful marriage for six years inspite of many minor problems (not least inlaws). My serious relationship troubles began when we invited my inlaws during the last days of my pregnancy. My husband invited them without my consent (though he knows about the rocky relationship bit), and I thought it would be insulting to them if I said 'no' when they had already been invited. I also wanted my Mom's presence at that time (for emotional reasons - I always dreamt I would have my Mom around when I had my first child - she has a major heart problem - it was her first grandchild (inlaws have 4 grandchildren) - and I had told my husband about this several times), so I invited my parents too (my parents stayed in a separate house). MIL hated having them around, made nasty comments about me and my parents to my husband, and complained about me to him all the time. In a short time, my husband turned against me and thought I was being unfair to them, and this caused a lot of fights between us. After a month of enduring this (after the baby was born), in a fit of anger, I told *him* that they should just leave if they thought I was being horrible. They heard that from the next room, and booked their tix for 10 days later. My parents moved in with us shortly after they left, and my husband made no pretense that they were welcome, and was pretty cold to me as well. I got increasingly depressed and became more and more dependent on my parents for company and comfort. I made them stay for 4 months simply bcoz I knew that after they left I wouldnt have anyone to talk to, and I wasnt sure what to expect from my husband. After my parents left, we didnt resolve anything much, and I just coped knowing we would visit India shortly.

We visited India and spent 15 days with inlaws. MIL and FIL did several things with the baby that displeased me - tried to feed a big piece of dry fruit cake to a 5 month old, tried to give him tea etc. Most times my husband agreed with me that they were not doing the right thing, yet he was not able to stop them. Sometimes, I did say to them quite strongly that they should not do xyz bcoz I was scared he would choke or something. MIL started complaining and again both of us had fights. MIL & FIL also organised a large party for the baby and didnt invite my parents or anyone else from my family and I was quite hurt about this, but didnt say anything.

I stayed back in India to help my Mom do a few check ups and it turned out that she had to have major surgery, so I ended up staying longer than I intended. I was frankly happy to have a reason to stay back bcoz I was very lonely in the UK, and my husband was not exactly friendly.

My inlaws never called me during all that time I was with my parents, but kept complaining to my husband that I didnt call them. The 'distance makes the heart grow fonder' was beginning to work on hubby, and he began to 'request' me to call them. I called them a couple of times for a couple of minutes. It was soon time for the baby's first birthday, and I didnt invite my inlaws though I had a grand celebration with my parents and husband. He wanted to invite them but I said 'no' bcoz I knew they would behave badly. Immediately after the birthday, we visited my inlaws and they didnt ask me a single word about my mother (that hurt me very much), and the whole complaints thing started again - this time about how I was not taking enough care of the baby!!! Fortunately it was a very short visit, and I think my husband missed us too much to start a fight !!! My inlaws and I havent talked since then.

I came back to the UK with my husband immediately after baby's first birthday (my Mom got a clean chit from the doctor), and though things are better between us, they are not close to normal. He has a very stressful job, and does quite a lot of the housework. BUT HE DOESNT LISTEN TO ME !!! He asks me 'how was your day', but is not interested when I start to talk, even when I tell him about funny things the baby did ! He loves the baby, and plays with him, but we only communicate basic stuff. I feel like he is a glorified maid plus cash machine. I am coping better with loneliness bcoz I go to toddler groups and have made some friends, but I am quite distressed with his behaviour.

And now, suddenly, he wants to invite his parents to the UK ! I said I dont want them around till I find a job bcoz I dont want to see them 24/7. But he thinks his parents should be invited now bcoz they are getting bored, and this is again creating a strain between us. In theory, he would be happier if we invited them simply bcoz it looks like we have made up with them, but practically, we would all be very unhappy if they came over now. Is he too dumb to understand this after all the drama the whole of last year ? And I am getting tired of having his parents 'between us' all the time now. This is too intimate for me to talk with my new friends here, and I just dont know what to do.

I know there are several unanswered questions here, but I didnt want to go too much into detail. Thanks in advance for all your input.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 10-04-2006 - 8:31pm
Aymous, NO WAY!!!! It has been sooo long since you've been around, wow! I'm glad to see you back, thought I'm certainly sorry you're having problems. I just got home from work and have to get dinner before I can come back and read/respond to your post, but I peeked in as soon as I got home and had to jump in and say "hi" right away!


I'm going to post the links to your previous post so others can get a feel for your relationship, then it's off to fix dinner. I'll be back later!


Wow, funny, I was just thinking about you a few days ago, wondering how you were doing. Huge hugs, Aymous!







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

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"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 10-04-2006 - 8:45pm
.

For those who aren't familiar with Aymous, her previous posts can be found here:

What is wrong here ?
Unnecessary?
For CryingEyes
Some troubles..... long...
So many issues, and ... (LONG)
Some little troubles............
Did I do the right thing ?
Troubled.
Its much clearer now.........
Problem Resolved !
So confused.......

I'll be back!


Aymous, you might read through your old posts too, you might find them helpful in dealing with the issues you're dealing with today.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

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Edited 10/5/2006 1:10 am ET by cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-05-2006 - 1:41am
Things have certainly changed since the last time you checked in, you've moved to the UK (instead of to his home town like you were worried about!) and you have a baby! Congratulations!


Aymous, I have to say, this problem you're dealing with is exactly the same as it was six years ago. Your MIL is still (and always will be) rude, demanding, insulting and critical. But, you MIL isn't the problem, your husband is. He's the one who listens to her (does he tell you what she says about you?), he allows her to say things about you, he bows to her pressure despite what you want and he is swayed by what she says about you. He has the ability to disallow her to speak badly about you in front of him, he can refuse to bow to her pressure, he can listen to you and take your wants and feelings into consideration and make decisions together instead of without you. But he doesn't. I think that's the biggest part of the problem here, and unless he wants to change it, it will continue to be a problem for you.


I think this specific situation has continued and probably done more damage with the time it's had to be a factor largely because of the circumstances of having had company for so many months, having been away while you stayed with your mother, etc. Instead of being able to deal with the situation and each other hurt and angry feelings were allowed to fester and not be tended to or resolved; you didn't seem to get to the point where you felt comfortable with each other again, probably because you didn't resolve it, right?


Have the two of you seen a couples counselor Aymous? I think that's the best thing you could do. You both have been carrying anger and hurt for a long time and you need a place not only to air it, but a place where you can each be heard. I think it's clear that resolutions need to be made, but I don't think they'll be made without some real help.


It must be really frustrating having your MIL try to treat your baby a way you don't want or like, I'm wondering why you don't just put your foot down? Instead of saying you don't think feeding fruitcake is a good idea, I'd just tell her you don't allow him to be fed foods and drinks you don't approve of, period.


I do think that having your in-laws come back when your relationship is still strained is a bad idea, you'll end up with more damage to your relationship as a result. I would tell your husband that you don't feel it would be good for your marriage to have his parents come right now and that you feel there's much work to be done to repair the damage in your relationship now before any further visits. I'm hoping he'll see that this is a serious matter. If they're coming regardless, can you arrange to visit your parents during that time? I really think the best bet is to get yourselves into couples or marriage counseling immediately and not have any house guests until it's been agreed upon in counseling.


What do you think?







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

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"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-2006
Thu, 10-05-2006 - 8:52am

The boundaries with the extended families sound out of whack on both sides although your MIL sounds more toxic. The two of you need to recognize that given too much access (like living with you for long periods) is bad for your relationship and set some agreed boundaries. Their issues are their issues and they should not be givng them to you. If they were my family or in-laws based on past behavior they would be allowed short visits and that would be about it. Assuming everyone can get along, or they will behave, or your husband will control their behavior, are bad assumptions....so I would avoid getting in these situations, and ideally you and he will have a joint plan for this.

Best of luck, P.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 10-05-2006 - 10:00am

I'm thinking that there are a lot of cultural norms and such here that are factoring in to all this.

Jen



iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Thu, 10-05-2006 - 6:04pm

Hi Cl-2nd life !

Thanks very much for the warm welcome to the board. I am really touched that you remembered me after so many years.... you have a wonderful memory, and more important than that, it shows you genuinely care about all the people who are on this board. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since I was last on the board, I guess the same at your end too. At my end, I completed my thesis, have been in and out of a couple of great jobs, made a lot of money, spent a lot of money, had a baby, and my relationship with hubby for a couple of years till MIL arrived, was absolutely absolutely fantastic. We got over a lot of issues that I posted about (some of them did make me laugh... I loved reading all my posts and the replies).. and enjoyed life to the hilt. Thats why now the cold after all that warmth is hitting really hard... I know he too is suffering in silence... and both of us know that he is putting his parents above our relationship, and I suspect he is buckling down to culture pressure - taking care of parents and all that stuff.

Your post made me realise that in all these years he has been putting his parents above me and our relationship during times of stress, but I am not going to let that happen again if I can help it. I did threaten to go back to India if he called his parents now without my consent :)... I just resent his desperation to make up with his parents - he has to make up with me first !!! I did bring up this topic of counselling and you know what he says ? 'I dont think I need any counselling, if anyone needs it, its you' !! I may need counselling, but I will not do it with his knowledge now, given his attitude. There are some women support groups in the UK and I might enlist the help of one. Having no one to talk to is also very frustrating. The kind of culture I come from, back in India, people would easily blame me for being 'less adjusting' with my inlaws (sometimes even my own parents), at least here, I am not judged on whether I am DIL or MIL, and that makes me feel I will get a fair hearing here.

Its wonderful to be back in touch, cl-2nd life ! I was just wondering about the others - Joannaran, Fighterchick - are you in touch with them ? Bcoz they dont seem to around now.
Am glad to see your children doing well !! Unfortunately, I dont seem to have much time to be on the internet these days bcoz of this busy little toddler and my perpetual exhaustion, but going by the warmth I find here, I'll definitely make some time, even if it means late nights :).

Thanks again, and LOTS of hugs,
Aymous.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-05-2006 - 11:36pm
Lots of things done over the last several years, huh? It sounds like all good things, that's great! Congrats on finishing your thesis! Nope, none of the regulars from back then are around anymore, there are new regulars now, and great ones at that! I'm glad you enjoyed reading your old posts, I know what you mean about being enjoying your posts, some of them were worth a chuckle, weren't they! It's amazing how much you can see in reading over those old problems and issues, I think it can be very helpful and enlightening. I've got to tell you, I was so surprised yesterday to bring up the board and find you!


I do agree with Orangecuse that by American standards both your parents involvement is too much, but I suspect, like Jen (Imasillynut) suggested that this could be a cultural difference. Are the roles your parents play in your lives pretty much typical by Indian standards? I also agree that by American standards the way you and your husband go about handling these things isn't appropriate, but again, I don't know how Indian standards match up. It seems that each of you make decisions about parents visiting, or going to visit parents without consulting each other. One thing I'd like clarification on, there a few instances where you mentioned "threatening" your husband, I'm wondering, do you really threaten him or is this a figure of speech that shouldn't be taken literally?


It seems like you're both choosing what you want to do without agreement from each other. In American culture it would be appropriate to form an agreement with your partner before making decisions, communication would remain open and consideration would be given to both of you. I don't hear that happening here. I do hear you say that you think some of his actions are due to feeling cultural pressure, and I know his parents are more traditional, and that in Indian culture many would blame you for not being more accepting. It seems to me - and I think you know this - that you have a traditional guy and a modern girl. He wants to do things the "old" way, and he feels pressure to treat his parents that way too, whereas you want to do things more evenly, more modern. It's easy to see how that would spell trouble for you. One thing that I don't understand is that you said things have been great for the last several years, until his parents came to visit. I guess I'd think that if he were heavily influenced by tradition he'd want to take care of his parents all the time and have a traditional relationship with them, but it sounds like they haven't been a part of his life for some time, those things seem to be opposite to me.


Honestly Aymous, whether he goes with you to counseling or not, I would urge you to go. There are a lot of things that can be made a lot better by just one of you attending. Of course, it would be better if you both went. In his response of "I don't need counseling, if anyone needs it, it's you", if your actively not getting along I would think that statement was made as a jab, to get back at you, he might change what he says once he's had some time to think about it, and if he was actively angry when he said, it getting over the anger might change his position on counseling too. I think you should tell him that you want to go to counseling as a couple to improve the state of your marriage and that I didn't want things to continue as they were, I wanted us both to be happy and to be happy in our marriage. A support group is a great thing, having others to vent your problems and frustration to is really great, but it can't take the place of counseling. You used to suggest posters seek counseling all the time -- it's time to take your own advice!







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

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"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-08-2004
Sat, 10-07-2006 - 4:38pm

hi
I dont exactly post on this board much, but I lurk alot. I couldnt help jump in, as I think that I can help.
Some people on this board might remember me from a few months ago, when I posted, desperate for some help. I recieved wise advice then. Anyway, an introduction:
I am Indian too, married very happily to my Indian husband and living in the US. We have been married for 3 years (wasnt arranged.. we fell in love. we are not typically "Indian" in the sense of values, having spent many years all over the globe during childhood... but we have both lived in India for a while and would call ourselves Indian). We have had issues in the past, primarily due to my own depression, which I have been able to beat. Things are simply great now.
I understand where you are coming from wrt in-laws. My in-laws are good people and our families get along well. But I know friends who are/have been in exactly similar situations. I think that Indian MILs can be quite painful to deal with.

First off, I'd like to say that you might want to talk more to Indian people rather than come to boards like this. This board is fantastic, and the people here are wise. However they do not and never will understand the cultural context. Their advice, I think would be slightly redundant. Things like "establishing boundaries" mean different things in different cultures. I know that my American friends would balk at having in-laws and parents stay for months.. while in Indian culture, it is common and accepted. Telling an Indian woman to establish boundaries by shortening visits by parents or in-laws simply wont work.

I agree with the CL that your problem is your husband and your relationship with him. Unless he steps up and takes a stand against your MILs complaining, I can't see how you can resolve issues. You cant and shouldnt tell him to stop his parents from coming. That will alienate your husband. Instead you should make him understand that your MIL complaining to him about you IS NOT acceptable. She has to respect you and your husband should not tolerate her telling him anything about you. Your husband has to be on your side.. and he has to do that regardless of who is visiting. You cannot get rid of the in-laws. They will be present always... you have to establish boundaries in a different way.

I think that what may work is giving an ultimatum.. that either you will leave with the baby or he has to come to an Indian marriage counsellor. I know that there are tons in the UK who will be able to help you. I have never in the past advised anyone to give their spouse an ultimatum. In this case, however, knowing Indian men like your husband, I do think that it's the only way to open his eyes. You must not become weak and let him guilt you. Instead, you should speak to him calmly and firmly. And you must be strong against all his pressure/blackmail whatever.

I am advising for an ultimatum, because I think that at this point you have nothing to lose. You are deeeply resentful at each other, your husband simply will not understand your point and your MIL is going to come and trust me.. things will get worse to the point of no recovery. I know a couple who have been hurt by so many in-law troubles that they dont even speak to each other... they have been married for many years and wont divorce, but they have too much anger against each other and it's a marriage not worth having, in my opinion.

If you want to prevent that from happening to you, you will have to make your husband see reason. You have to make him believe that you are serious about leaving him and drag him to a counsellor. And I think that counselling will help you with your case.

I havent read any of the past messages. But I hope that this makes some sense to you.. I know that this is really extreme advice. I do know however, that this situation calls for extreme moves. Sorry that you're going through all of this.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 10-08-2006 - 11:56pm
Great post, Ingie2004, I'm really glad you delurked, your being of the same culture as Aymous is enormously helpful. I agree 100%; when there are cultural differences in the mix, I don't think the answers can be as accurate as they could be if those responding were of the same culture, and I think often the answers given to posts with cultural differences can be downright damaging if followed. Despite the fact that we're doing our best to help, I don't think it's often possible to understand cultural morays that you weren't raised in. Your insight is incredibly beneficial.


The only part of your post that I'd be concerned about is the ultimatum. In my culture, giving ultimatums should only be done if and when you're ready to follow through and live with the ultimatum should you have to carry it out or should your husband take you up on it. An ultimatum of "do this or I'm leaving" should only be given if you are indeed ready to end your marriage if your spouse isn't willing to comply with your demands/needs.


How are things for you these days, Ingie?







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

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"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-08-2004
Mon, 10-09-2006 - 2:24pm

hi cl
thanks for your kind message. i will update you on my situation.. first i'd like to address the poster's situation.
i am not in favor of ultimatums at all. and i have never had to use one, thank god. i think that in aymous's case, unless she is able to convince her husband to establish boundaries with parents, it will impact the marriage severly and things will go steeply downhill from here. it's already pretty bad. they dont talk.
either way, she is laying down ultimatums already. she is telling him to disinvite the parents. imho, that is actually worse than saying.. "you have to see a counsellor with me, because this situation is untenable and if you force me to put up with this i will have no choice but to move out on my own".
i think that her husband isnt taking her seriously. i read some of the old posts.. and i'd have to say that they've had their share of trivial fights. those sort of things are likely to leave behind deeply ingrained behavioral patterns and it's possible that they are continuing to act like that, even when the issue at hand is very serious.
so unless they fix their own issues they can't expect to have a better marriage. and they can only fix their issues when they start listening to each other.. and probably counselling is the only way for them to do that, since it doesnt seem that they're doing it on their own.
i think that this is one situation where, if i were in her shoes, i'd threaten to walk out, and i would walk out if things didnt change. she doesnt have much to lose really.. and i can bet my bottom dollar that one threat like that will get her husband moving.

now to come to me... well, i did see a counsellor at school a couple times and she was completely useless. i didnt like her AT ALL. she was patronising and made all sort of sounds, like she pitied me and how awful my life is and things like that.. anyway, i stopped going to her. and things went further downhill.. then one day my husband i realized that i had ALL the symptoms of being depressed. once i realized that it was much easier to deal with my moods. i didnt go into counselling.. but i talked about it with my parents, who apparently had struggled with depression a few years ago. it was nice to know that they understood. everyone in my family, and especially my husband has been super supportive and understanding.

since we found out that my moods were the result of chemical things, we both read up a TON on depression and therapy. i havent gone into therapy, but have started to change the way i look at things.. not be so negative and focus on good things. it's hard to believe but it's worked. i havent let my moods take over me for even ONE minute in the past two months. i know that some of you might think that you can only control it with therapy and medicine. but for me, information, introspection and conscious directed effort has helped. that is all therapy does anyway. i dont think i'll go into therapy because i can now identify when i am getting into one of my angers and my sadness, and i can divert my thoughts. it probably helps that i am very busy too. overall, i have never been this happy in my 29 years as i have been in the past two months. my relationship with dh is vastly different. we are finally at peace, havent had a single argument in the past two months.. and we are both trying to make sure that it stays this way.

well, that's my story.

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