Looking for help/thoughts - LONG sorry..

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2006
Looking for help/thoughts - LONG sorry..
7
Sun, 12-10-2006 - 8:13pm

Hello:

My partner and I have been together for 2 1/2 years, living together for 5 months on xmas day. He has a DD from 1st marriage, me 2 DS from 1st marriage. Anyhow, my ex-h and I are very amicable and his family has large celebrations at the holidays. Every holiday with the exception of xmas eve the boys go with their dad. Xmas eve I have my family/friends over, basically an open house for the day, whoever stops over does. Nothing fancy, but since the kids go w/ dad around 11 on xmas day, I like to spend the day just being.

My SO is not amicable w/ex wife. they argue over almost every holiday except xmas. We have dd on xmas eve, mom on xmas day. Sounds perfect, right? wrong. SO has a large family and spends every holiday with them, and at least 1 sunday dinner a mo and any extras, like b-days etc.

So, we have been fighting ALOT lately over blending family issues and what not. On thanksgiving I wanted to spend the day alone. my partner insisted that I MUST go to show his dd that we are family... especially for the holiday. I mentioned to him that the only holiday my family celebrates together is xmas eve and that he and his DD would not be celebrating at OUR home, but he and she are going to his sister's house. He looked at me and stated, "of course we are, that's what WE do for xmas eve". I asked did it ever occur to him that it appeared odd that he would walk out on me and the children to go elsewhere on our 1st holiday with my children here. he said no... Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy his family and I spend large amounts of time with them. But it seems to me that his choosing to NOT spend it with us is a wrong choice. The way I look at it is that this is the only holiday that all of our children are together for an entire day, and he is going to do something else, excluding us because this is the only time I do anything for the holidays. They way I feel about the holidays is that my kids shouldn't spend the day with their step-dad's family if the option to spend the day with their dad's family is available. In addition, i had 50/50 with my ex, now my boys live with me and go EOW with their dad, so I think it only fair to have them spend these occasions with him, where we used to live, they regularly saw their paternal aunts/grandparents, they lived only minutes from us. Now we live an hour away from them and their dad.

I'm trying not to be really hurt, but as it inches closer and my family is questioning this (as I have been all along), it's definitely working it's way into my gut and causing more stress in an already stressful situation.

I won't demand or force him to be anywhere he doesn't want to be. In fact, half the problems we have right now are that he makes a committment to be somewhere with me, then the day before or the day of he'll say... you know what I'd really like to do and rearranges the plan to suit whatever his particular need is that day. as the biggest example, the night before we moved in he was supposed to come around 2 pm (I lived an hour away), help me out, then my ex-h was going to pick up the kids from school and bring them to my house (at the time my ex and I shared a home still) and then my SO and i were going to go for our last dinner together outside of having my kids full-time and his dd 1/2 time. He called and said, what I'd really like to do is come out around 1, leave at 3:30 and go golfing, and then I'll come back around 9 or so. We made the plans 2 weeks in advance so I was totally shocked and hurt. My ex-h was great though, he left work and did everything that my SO was supposed to do, including helping me say goodbye to the home I had with my children their entire lives. I told my SO not to come at 1 because I knew I would be upset when he left and so he didn't. He showed up at 9 pm, just in time for my ex-h to pick up the last of his stuff and go...

I told my SO from the beginning. If we make plans and you choose to do something else, I won't ask or beg you to keep your plans with me. He says that is game playing. I say, if we are going to do x, and you say what I'd like to do is Y, then I'll say do whatever you want... he is aware that I will be upset with this, but he chooses to anyhow. In addition, he just planned 3 "guy trips" for next year without even consulting me about scheduling or anything. We own a home together and pay bills together, we just put off the wedding part in lieu of putting on a large addition to our home to fit all our kids and things.

Anyhow, this is festering and as we're nearing xmas I'm afraid it's going to cause irreparable damage. Of course, he told me that if I didn't go for thanksgiving it would cause irreparable damage... I, of course went... but I know if I don't say something, he won't be here, even though I pointed out that one time on thanksgiving that I thought missing xmas eve with my kids and his was more damaging than me missing one holiday with his family...

What should I do?
all thoughts/comments welcome.
thanks

Nicole

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 4:29am
Welcome to the board, Nicole ~


I'm confused about the Christmas issue. I thought you'd said your son was gone on Christmas day and that his daughter is too. How is that a problem? You mention things like, "it's the only day my son can be with his father's relatives", etc., but I don't see how it's changed? What would keep him from seeing relatives? I'm guessing, but am not sure, that what your s/o wants is for you and your son to spend Christmas Eve with his family, and that these relatives come to your open house, which won't be happening if you're with his family, is that right? Since you were with your s/o for two years before you moved in, I assume you've been very aware how he spends his holidays and, I assume he hasn't gone to your open houses as spending Christmas Eve with his family is a "must do", right? If that's the case, then didn't you discuss how holidays would be managed before you moved in? And if that's not the case -- if he came to your open house and if holidays with his family weren't carved in stone, then he's pulled a huge change on you. In the matter of holidays and families, I don't think any of us don't have to wrestle with that one. We all come from homes where the traditions are specific to only us, and the only relatives we *always* see are ours. When we marry or move in together, we have two people who have *always* done things a specific way and seen a specific group of people. Of course he *must* have Thanksgiving with his family, just like you *must* have your open house. The solution is pretty much the same for all of us -- compromise. One year you do Thanksgiving with his family, and Christmas Eve, the way you do it. The next year it's reversed.


However, what I'm hearing you say is that your s/o is manipulative and demanding and *won't* do things any way other than his own. I don't get how not begging him to do things the way he'd agreed is game playing, it's simply expecting him to be and adult, responsible for his agreement, and responsible for his decisions. I'm also hearing that he's been insensitive and selfish in situations when you relied on him. I'm hearing that he's not considerate of you or the relationship he has with you, he matters, his family, his tradition, his guys weekends, his golf, those things matter. What doesn't matter is you, your wants, your needs, your family, your traditions, and his agreements with him. With that in mind, I'm wondering why you moved in with him, and more to the point, why you've continued a relationship with someone who doesn't consider you for two and a half years?







~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
When you don't get what you want"

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2006
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 7:40am

Hello.

Thanks for your post. I'm never as clear when I write (or speak for that matter, lol) as I intend to be.

I go to every holiday with his family, and gladly do so, since I don't have my kids for the holidays. The only "holiday" I have with my kids is xmas eve. Yes, this is by choice because if I wanted them on the other holidays I could have them. I genuinely believe, though, that if the choice is to go with their dad and his family or stay with me and go to my SO's family, the boys belong with their dad and their natural extended family. I would guess that would be most ex-h's dreams to have an ex-w who so easily agrees to let him have ALL the holidays and long weekends. My reasoning for this is that my ex-in-laws have long-standing family traditions, where my family has only the one xmas eve tradition; in addition because to become a family with my SO I picked my kids up and moved them an hour away from the family they spent most of their time with, their dad's family...

It isn't a compromise for me because we do every holiday and event with his family... all holidays, mother's day, father's day, long weekend holidays, 4th of July, and Sunday dinners monthly or bi-monthly, etc. Again, I have no issue with going and enjoy it.

My issue about Thanksgiving was that we've been struggling with our relationship and with my boys gone for the day, I just wanted the house to myself: no kids, no partner, no stress... I have gone to every Thanksgiving, xmas day and easter celebration with my SO since we started dating.

The big issue is that he pushed me to be where he wanted me to be under the guise of "familial harmony"... I questioned why thanksgiving day was more important than him being a part of my xmas eve celebration and his answer was that he celebrates it with his family. If you want me to be somewhere with you and your daughter to show we are family, is it incorrect of me to ask for the same in return, especially where 1) this is the only holiday we have all 3 kids together and 2) this is the only holiday I celebrate with my extended family (sister/father/brother, close family friends).

EDITED TO ADD THE FOLLOWING: While I would have been hurt by his choosing to miss out on the only holiday we celebrate with my children included, had he not forced me to be part of his Thanksgiving celebration by using manipulative behavior, I would have been more accepting of us planning separate holiday celebrations. In addition, you had asked if he came to my xmas tradition previously... He did not because he spent it with his family, and because of the hour long distance between us. We did not live together at the time, and for us we decided keeping the holidays separate so as to not confuse the children was the appropriate approach. Lastly, we just put an addition on to our home and when we decided who to pick, part of the discussion included if we pick this, it should be done in time to have the xmas eve open house... There was no surprise on his part that I wanted to do this. The only surprise came when I learned he had no intention of taking part in it with us....

I'm just still simply at a loss...

Any suggestions as to how to approach this subject in a calm manner?

Thanks,

Nicole




Edited 12/11/2006 12:39 pm ET by mom2domandnate
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2003
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 1:28pm
You have to decide what is truly best for yourself and your kids. He is not yet your husband, his family is not yet yours. I think it is extremely important for you to set boundaries right now. I'm not talking about compromising with him, I'm saying you should set your OWN boundaries. You have decide what you're willing to do or not do, and then let him decide how/if he wants to work with you. This is not playing games, its standing your ground. This may seem small, but if you were to get married it would multiply. This is not about a holiday, this is about him not respecting YOUR situation. If you allow it to continue, it will fester. I do not mean to be harsh but I'm watching a co-worker go through this right now, and they aren't even a blended family. You will NOT be wrong if you're sticking to your guns on what is important to you. It may be that he will not come around to your side at all but do you really want to be with someone who has such little respect for the needs of you and your children? If he's serious about you, he'll find a way to help you work this out.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2006
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 2:15pm

Hi MountainMama:

Thank you for your reply. I don't believe you are being harsh... besides when you come to a chat board, one must expect to hear all POV.

I agree with setting boundaries, and overall that is what I'm trying to do. I'm willing to give in so many ways. He is working on attempting discipline with routines/expectations with his daughter that would never be there if I weren't there with my children. I do appreciate his efforts. Unfortunately, there are so many dynamics to our relationship... My over-friendly ex and his intruding family, my SO's ridiculous ex-w and her nasty behavior towards me, my children, my SO, not to mention all the horrible things she calls the truth that she tells her child. My stress over uprooting my life and moving an hour away (including an hour commute minimum to my job, where before it was 15 minutes max before)... the fact that his daughter is involved in oodles of activities, and he goes to them all, his weekend or not, and I can't involve my kids in weekend activities because their dad lives 70 minutes away from us and he has the EOW... you get what I'm saying.

We are both compromising in our own ways. This for me, though, is where I draw the line. I could accompany my sister and her family, or my brother and his, or spend time with my dad on other holidays, but I just go with my SO to his family because that is their tradition (and it is enjoyable). This is the only holiday I requested to keep my children, because we have always had a tradition since they were born to be home for xmas eve. It never occurred to me that he would turn his back and behave in this way. He is being stubborn and thoughtless and even selfish. He is a 41 yo man and he is behaving like a 6 yo... Funny thing is, I opted for an "older" man (i'm 32), because they've stopped this whole "me" thing... I guess I was wrong.

I appreciate your frankness. I'd like to find a way to broach this subject without having strong emotions. Any suggestions?

Nicole

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2003
Mon, 12-11-2006 - 3:46pm
Well I may not be the best at giving advice on avoiding strong emotions, lol. However, when I manage to remember to keep my cool (its working more often these days) I calmly and simply state my point of view and the reasons behind it. If I think my point is worthy of holding onto I hold my ground and let dh make his decisions around it. You may also want to throw in the "it hurts my feelings that you don't want to stay at Christmas Eve" but from personal experience I would suggest limiting this. Not because you should avoid letting your feelings known, but because it can sometimes throw up a wall. My dh hears that and automatically shuts down the listening devices. But that may not be the issue with your SO. Is there a way at all to compromise a little? Could his sister and other family (I think I recall that correctly) come to your place for Christmas Eve? Perhaps she might enjoy not having to cook? Just a note, as well, it may be that your DH is truly baffled that you don't wish to spend time with his family. From his POV you've spent every other holiday with them, and enjoyed it, and he probably wonders why anyone would prefer something other than his traditions, if that makes sense. I know what works with my dh (straight forward, this is how it is, no hints) but that may be different from your situation.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 12-12-2006 - 2:13am
What you're saying is that you spend every holiday the way your s/o dictates, the only day you want "your" way is Christmas Eve? If this were the only issue I would say that from his standpoint, he should get to spend Christmas Eve the way it feels like "home", "holiday" and "tradition" sometimes too. It's not his fault that you have no other holidays that are special to you. But that's how I see it. You may tell him that since you do all other holidays his way, you will be doing Christmas the way you want to. But, if here were to respond with, "okay, we'll do half the holidays any way you want and we'll alternate Christmas Eve", I have a feeling you'd say no. You can just tell him that Christmas Eve is non-negotiable, that you'll be doing it your way, he's free to join you or not, but you will be celebrating in your tradition and you'd be within your rights to do that. He can like it or not, he can end the relationship, but you're always within your rights to state what you're going to do and it's up to him to accept it or not.


I honestly think though, that this isn't an issue that's going to go away, and like I said before, I don't think Christmas is the problem, it's a symptom of the problem. He doesn't respect what you want or think, he doesn't consider you. You've demonstrated that's a problem in other aspects of your relationship, not just Christmas. This is who he is, you come a lowly second, he comes first, and that is the problem. You're going to be disrespected, treated with no consideration throughout your relationship with him. You'll struggle always to make yourself matter to him. I wonder why you'd accept someone who doesn't treat you like everyone in a relationship should be treated.







~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
When you don't get what you want"

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 12-12-2006 - 2:20am
I assume your s/o is well aware of the conflict and has heard your feelings on it, right? Saying much of anything is only going to be repeating what's already been said, right? If that's the case, there's no point in going into it. If you want to keep your cool, state your decision in a brief statement like, "I'm going to stay here for Christmas Eve. You're welcome to join me, but I'm staying here." Then don't get drawn in. No matter what he says, just calmly continue to repeat, "I'm going to stay here for Christmas Eve. You're welcome to join me, but I'm staying here." Don't get sucked into saying anything else. Just repeat the mantra. Eventually he'll get it. It can't be heated if you don't veer off your statement. And really, if it's all been hashed over before, there's no point. You both know where each other stand. It's about decisions at this point, and you've made yours. End of story.


He's selfish and self centered, he's used to doing what he wants. If you're looking for a way that he'll accept it easily it's not going to happen. He's going to want to continue to try to get you to do it his way.







~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
When you don't get what you want"

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"