Arguing constantly...advice please
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| Tue, 12-19-2006 - 10:37am |
Thank you taking the time to read and respond. My fiancé and I have been together for over two years and I moved from Chicago to Portland because he is from there and I could transfer within my company. Since we moved a year ago, it was not easy for me learning the city on my own while my fiancé became a work-aholic (9am to 9pm Mon-Sun except most Sat night we go out) for his business---we began to build up a lot of walls with one another/arguing/fighting and I moved out at the end of September. We were bickering from April to August several times a week. I began socializing more with co-workers in Aug/Sept.
During the month of October, I immediately started dating a gentleman at the same company that I work at as he was a good friend hearing me vend about my fiancé, but I new I still had feelings for the x. After a week that I moved out, my fiancé wrote me a well-thought out long letter for all the things that he saw went wrong, we then sent several nice long emails back and forth followed by weekly coffee meetings and some dinners---it seemed that I saw more of him in the 6 weeks than I did living with him; I never stopped loving him, I just lost hope that we could forget the resentment/hurt feelings/things were going to change/go back to how they were in Chicago.
He tells me things constantly like I can accept that you are not everything on my ideal perfect list (I don't like partying until 4am three times a month(he is 39), I don't like being outside in the cold weather below ten degrees). It used to be that I was not petite either as I am five eight and 130 not five foot and 100 pounds, but he total accepts that now and says that I am the most beautiful person in the world.
I moved back in November and he is still working the long hard hours and the emails/text-messaging/phone call during the day has faded over the past week. I have asked (since May) for two nights a week (Saturday plus a weekday) for him to come home at 6pm and he keeps saying he wants to, but the business or he tells me fine he will quit everything, sell the house and live in an apartment. We have been in counseling and it seems to help. I love my fiancé more than anything, but we constantly keep fighting. For the past two weeks we have been fighting non-stop (I still kept my apartment while I moved back in) and he said on Wednesday to just go and find what you need so I packed up my car and went back to my apartment. Of course he called me an hour later (shocked that I left) and told me that I just don’t understand him and that he loves me and wants to work on us. Since we have been talking on the phone and we still get irritated with each other and he starts yelling at me.
I am sure this is a common-occurance with people, but it is like in my head I completely agree that this is not working and it is never going to end; but then when I see him, in the house we bought, dogs we bought together, my heart is just speaking so much louder to give it another try (but I have said this over 20 times in the past year). We are still in counseling. She can see that we love each other, and wants to commit on a hard 6 months together of work with her weekly and this was after I moved out again on wednesday to my place.
Any advice would be much appreciated and thanks for your time!

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Maybe it's different than it appears, but from what you've said, it sounds like what your boyfriend wants is for you to accept that he's going to be working non-stop. I don't hear him compromising on his hours, I don't hear him agreeing to spend more time with you. I hear him say he cares about you and that he's accepted you're not *everything* that he wants. In other words, it sounds like he's saying, "Yes, I care, but I'm not planning to change a thing and I want you to be happy with that." I also hear him trying to guilt you into feeling that since he's accepted you're not *ideal* for him you should accept that he's never around. And that, my dear, is bull.
First of all, your height (and proportionate weight) are not things you can do anything about. These are things he knew from the second he met you and had the choice to accept or not. Secondly, I assume that not liking to party all night or be out in the freezing cold are not things that have changed; I assume you've never liked these things. On the other hand, his work habits have changed; this isn't how he used to be, this is a change. Besides all that, just because he's chosen to accept what is less than his ideal does not for one second mean you have to do the same. What's acceptable to you may not be acceptable to him at all, and versa visa. Not wanting to party all night and not liking to be out in the freezing cold are things that are (to me) minor differences, workable differences, not such a big deal. However, you're in a relationship to be with someone, not to be in a relationship in name only. If you'd wanted to never see the guy you were in a relationship with, you'd have stayed in Chicago and let him move to Portland. The point is, you moved to continue to be with him, not to never see him. This is huge, it would be a deal breaker for me. Unless, this is a temporary situation for him, is it? Is there a project he's trying to power through or a goal he needs to meet? Is there an end in sight? I haven't heard that so I assume that's not the case. And again, I hear him not wanting to compromise, he wants you to accept it as it is, he wants you to be happy with it and he's trying to guilt you into feeling like you're wrong for being unhappy. The change he made in October sounds like an attempt to get you back, once things were back on track for the two of you, it sounds like he went right back to the "same old same old". That doesn't sound like a desire for change, it sounds like a desire to keep you but continue to do what he wants -- work constantly. You said you've been together for two years, and for one of those years he has been different than the first, focused on working non-stop. The first year of a relationship is where it's quite typical for things to be different than they're really going to be, it's at the year mark that things change, relax and you see habits or personality traits that you'd never seen before. I've had the same experience. A guy I was with changed from someone who was quite relationship oriented, actively interested in activities, communication, etc., to someone who only wanted to sit and stare at the TV every night. It took me quite a while to realize this difference was the real him. I think the same may be true for you.
You said you fight constantly. About what, his work hours or other something else? And if it's something else, is the real reason you fight his work hours?
At this point I'd say, good for you for keeping your apartment, I think that was a very wise move. It's good that you're seeing a therapist. I'm wondering, how long have you been going and what improvements/changes have you seen from him as a result?
Some articles that may be helpful:
Ten Rules For Fair FightingVerbal Fencing With Someone You Love
Dos and Don'ts For Fair Fighting
Conflicts - Points to Remember
Rship Components - Healthy & Unhealthy
The Truth About the Power of Love
Unmatched ambitions
~ cl-2nd_life
"Experience is what you get
When you don't get what you want"
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I know from experience how you are feeling. It's really hard. Nevertheless, in my opinion, any relationship that requires that much work and counseling prior to marriage will never work out. Please don't try to force a square peg into a round hole particularly if you plan to have children. You will so regret it. Divorce is devasting to kids and the guilt of having created the situation is difficult to live with. If you want to be truly happy and create a healthy invironment for your children, you need to find someone you are naturally compatible with. Once again, I speak from experience. Going through the torture of the breakup will be worth it when you end up with the right person. It is very obvious that the little voice inside you is telling you that this relationship is wrong. You need to listen to it. It is always right.
Be strong. You will never regret it.
C
Thank you for taking the time to write your advice to me. You are pretty much right on target in your desciptions. I have not been living with him since end of September and I have gone back and forth a few times---now, I feel like we are in a bad habbit pattern and I am beyond tired of moving suitcases back and forth. Are fights are that (i am non-verbal cue oriented) he feels that it I look somewhat disappointed or make a hand/eye gesture that upsets him and he starts to yell at me and then I feel like he uses me as a whipping post to bring up everything I did wrong for the past year--we broke up a couple times and I went on dates (for this he does not forgive me because he says that I betrayed and disrespected the relationship, that I could just do that which I disagree). He constantly checks my phone and wants to see my email to verify that I am not keeping in contact with any past dates (which annoys me). I write this stuff and I know in my head it is wrong, but my heart goes out to him.
He wants me to come to his place for the holidays (I have been strong and not seen him for a week), but I don't want to do that because I think the space is good for me???
If what I posted last night is correct, then you're spinning your wheels. He does not plan to change and expects you to accept the relationship as it is now, period. Your choice is clear. Happily accept being in a relationship with someone who's never home or move on to find someone who wants the same kind of relationship that you do; your boyfriend may have been that guy, but he's no longer that guy. Not only does the fact that this has been the status quo for a year tell you that, but he's telling you the same thing pretty plainly.
In your holiday dilemma, you should do what feels right to you, and clearly that's not staying at his place. Truthfully, it sounds like what you know is this guy is not who you thought he was, is not what you want and therefore, it's time to move on. Sorry.
I couldn't agree more with what Punkydoodle1 said. She's right on the money.
~ cl-2nd_life
"Experience is what you get
When you don't get what you want"
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Thank you---these message boards really have helped me and given me more strength and courage than I ever thought so I do thank everyone for your help.
Everyone I know in Portland are his friends (except for ones I have at work and they are now all gone for the holidays). All his friends, attorney, and counselor that he truly loves me as you; and as you have outlined below I wonder why he gets so angry with me so quickly, not willing to go to dinner more than once a week or not come home earlier than one night a week (he says it will change, but I have been hearing this for a year now since the move and wondering when it ever will). He feels betrayed that I could date while not in the relationship and said that he fully has not forgiven me for that, but wants too (in my head I don't feel that I did anything wrong).
I have not seen him for a week and last night he phoned and wanted to give me my christmas gift that he bought me (a very nice purse) after he made it clear that we should not spend more than twenty five bucks on each other; which I much disagreed a couple weeks ago over thanksgiving(I told him that he did not have to buy me anything nor do I care, but who was he to decide how much I spend on him). I have been doing good and not seeing him and wondering if I should meet him for dinner or continue to do what I am doing?
Unless you are prepared to start the cycle all over again, keep doing what you're doing. It is in your best interest to do so.
Peace,
Di
***If you cannot define yourself, your circumstances will.***
What does your little voice tell you? I can tell that you are a very intelligent person. In situations like these you should do what is right even if it hurts, which it will, particularly at this time of year. I agree with DI. If you continue to see him, you will just prolong the agony.
You owe him nothing, dating someone else was perfectly okay and you will be much better off when you find someone who is easier for you to get along with. You will never find Mr. Right if you continue to spend time with Mr. Wrong.
You also need time to get over him before you can really be emotionally ready for the next relationship. The perfect guy could come along tomorrow but you may not recognize him because you are still so focused on Mr. Wrong. The sooner you get over him, the sooner you will be ready for someone better suited for you.
I promise you that someday soon you will look back on this and thank god (or your higher power) that you didn't marry this guy.
Again, I know of what I speak. :) It's like pulling off a bandage. You need to grit your teeth and take the pain. It will be over before you know it. If you try pulling the bandage off a little at a time (like having dinner with him once in a while) you are just prolonging the pain.
Give yourself the same advice you would give your best friend.
A big hug for you.
C
My litte voice tells me----I am completely confused; one minute he tells me how much he loves me, adores me, appreciates me, will make the changes and then he says he just needs more time to make all these changes but he wants too (I have been hearing all this for one year).
I feel like I have been the one that has made changes for our relationship in the past year--switched jobs so I would not travel as much in March after moving here in Dec, dropped some weight(8 pounds)/firmed up and cosmetic surgery, lost money in my condo when we initially moved to here to just get it sold, and not to mention move a different state. He wants me to have a successful career, work-out five days a week/look good all the time, help him in his business after my long days at work, take care of the dogs/ make him break/lunch/dinner, clean the house, and party until 4am at least a few times a month when he so desire(which I hate staying up past 10pm as I am so tired from getting up at 5am every morning)---I just don't think I can keep doing this or want to for the rest of my life(this is MYLitteVoice too). Everytime we go out he tells me in my ear carbs--(so I don't eat more than one piece of bread) and you really need desert? He constantly checks my phone to make sure that no other guys are calling me (when I have never cheated on him) and checks my email---I feel like I am always being watched.
He says though he appreciates the preceding changes I have made, he says I still need to work on my non-verbal cues because it sends him the wrong message and the right for him to get mad at me/react/get ticked off.
Now, he wants me to be patient for another six months (I keep hearing in two more months for the past year, he will have time and step back hours) while he finishes opening this office, but then he wants to create another business with his brothers so I just don't see an end to this cycle?--am I correct? Am I just one of those smart business people and really dumb in my personal life by letting him possibly control me???
Thanks much for your help!
I am really sorry, but he does not sound like a nice guy with character. He sounds much to focused on how you look which is very shallow. This is a huge red flag. If you feel like you need to be gorgeous all the time to keep him, you are just asking for trouble. You will be much happier if you find a guy who will love you just as much with a little cellulite and/or droopy boobs. As you age, your body will change. If you are with someone who will make you feel bad about that, how can you be happy? It sounds like he needs a Stepford wife.
I get the feeling he is an emotional bully who is controlling you. He loves and adores you and promises to make changes when he thinks he is in trouble. After he gets comfortable again, he goes back to his old ways and you get frustrated. He checks up on you because his self esteem is low. Bullys feel better about themselves when they are making other feel bad.
Of course he is going to tell you how much he loves you and that may be true. However, it doesn't matter if you can't be happy with him. A good relationship does not require this much work so soon.
I don't think you are dumb in any way. On an emotional level, you just want this relationship to work out. Breaking up is really painful can be difficult. I don't know about you, but many women think that good guys are hard to find. They are not. As I may have mentioned before, however, you will not find Mr. Right if you are focused on Mr. Wrong. On an intellectual level, I think you know you should get out of it.
I'm not saying that he is a totally bad guy. I just think you'll be much better off with someone who is really good to you.
Take care.
C
Whoa!!! Now you're telling us all of this? This man is controlling you like a little puppet on a string. YOu work out, have plastic surgery so that HE will love you? You are right under his little thumb.
You said : "Am I just one of those smart business people and really dumb in my personal life by letting him possibly control me???"
Ummm... it would seem that you're being awfully naive here by not seeing that you are being controlled. Your life revolves around pleasing him. Where are YOU in all of this? What do YOU want? Did you want plastic surgery? Did you want to move to Portland and lose money on your condo?
In a healthy loving relationship one person does not have to constantly work at pleasing the other person. Nor does one person constantly have the other person on their toes to please him. They love each other unconditionally, whether they are toned and firm or have the perfect nose or not. IMHO you should get out of there ASAP and get counselling for yourself so that you understand what a good relationship is like. Just because he says he loves you doesnt mean he does. He has shown in the past year what you mean to him.. by not following through on anything he says. He loves the fact that you are his little puppet who will apparently dance to any tune he wants you to dance to... that is the extent of his love. Of course he doesnt want that to change. he is getting a pretty good deal here!! Get out of that relationship asap so that you can heal from this abusive controlling relationship. You deserve so much better.
Edited 12/22/2006 1:11 pm ET by ingie2004
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