what do y'all think about the rules

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2005
what do y'all think about the rules
9
Sat, 03-26-2005 - 5:11pm

I met a guy last Friday through a dating website. I went out with him that night which I know I am not suppposed to do but I was bogged down with a paper (I'm a grad student with a full time job) and I wanted a break without the "you are not taking your degree seriously" speeched from my girlfriends. We went out. It went well. We made out (oops) He seemed really interested: he wanted to go out on Saturday but I really had to get back to that paper.

I called him on Monday because class was cancelled. He said he could not go out that night - mom's bday and he would call about getting together later in the week. He never called so silly me assumed he did not call back because I seemed too "interested". He also seemed surprised that I was "open" all week. This happened to be a week I was open. The next two weeks, I am not open.

He called today. I let it go to voicemail. He had an emergency business trip. He apologized and asked if I wanted to go out tonight or tomorrow if I was available. I'm available tonight - sort of - I have movies with mom planned - Holy Weekend all my friends are off with family and tomorrow is Easter.

The question is how long should I wait to call him, or should I wait. Should I suddenly go all "Rules" on him because I did not really follow my own modified version of the Rules here: no going out on the same night, no more than casual kissing on the first date. We are both in our mid 30s. However, I am not very experienced with dating. I've had a couple of long relationships and I am coming off of a long self-imposed "I am through with men" period. I've never dated anyone I did not know before.

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 03-26-2005 - 5:18pm

Did I read that right...you'd consider blowing off your MOM for someone you've only met once ;-)??? Yikes!

I would call him back today and let him know that you have plans this weekend (don't blow off your mom!), but you are free X night and Y night next week. Then the ball is in his court to ask you out for a time that works for you.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2004
Sat, 03-26-2005 - 7:13pm

>>He never called so silly me assumed he did not call back because I seemed too "interested".<<

WRONG. That "Rules" stuff, in that respect, is a load of crap.

The cold hard truth is that he didn't call back because he's not into you enough that it was/is important to him at that time. It's not because you're seeming "too easy" somehow.

I've been dating off and on for, oh, 18 years. I've NEVER avoided a girl because she wasn't "hard enough to get". If I have an emergency come up and there's a woman I'm really into, I call her- even if it's a 30 second call to say "Look, I'm sorry, I'm jammed up with XXX and I'll call you later." That's what someone who's into someone else DOES.

That whole "play hard to get" thing is a bad message; the reason that it seems to work is NOT because you're hard to get, but because it's primarily a message that is intended on building up your own self-image and self-esteem. That's what works; it's not because you're suddenly a big challenge or something.

This doesn't mean you flop onto your back whenever you meet a cute guy that you're into! :)
.

>>I'm available tonight - sort of - I have movies with mom planned<<

WRONG. You're not free tonight; you have plans already. If I calling some gal, and she told me "Gosh, I would love to go out tonight but I can't- I already have plans, movies with my mom!" I'd think that was pretty cool.

It would mean that you like your mom, and that you are the type of person who isn't going to bail out on someone just because something new and shiny comes along.

Here is what you do. You set a date when you are free. You make it clear that you're interested in him and would be open to going out with him. You have a good time, you be yourself, you don't sit there and overanalyze anything and everything he says, you don't sit there and think about "does he think I'm desperate" just because you happen to be free for a few nights.

You return his call as soon as you have a chance and want to call him; you do not play the "I'm not going to call because I don't want to seem too eager" game. You just call him up, and when you've got free time you go out with him. You don't bail on stuff you've already planned with your friends, or your mom, or your job or your schoolwork.

Now, if you WANT a games-playing, scamming, slightly sleazy "player" kind of guy, then go ahead and obssess about how long you should wait and whether or not you should kiss on the first date and crap like that. You wanna play a game, though, like in "The Rules", then you're going to wind up dating games-players instead of genuine men.

"The Rules" had some great stuff in it. So does "HJNTIY". What is GOOD about those books is how they point out and remind women (let's face it, they're aimed at and written for women) that they should be strong, that they have worth, that they deserve to be treated well and kindly and in a caring manner.

But where "The Rules" in particular goes wrong is in their thinking about cause-and-effect. Good guys, good men, just aren't drawn to women who seem all hot-and-cold. I've never thought to myself "gosh, I'm so challenged by this woman, I'll keep after her until she's mine".

No, you can keep your self-respect and your dignity WITHOUT being a manipulative witch like "The Rules" seems to lead to in many women.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2005
Sun, 03-27-2005 - 2:09am

Thanks NGO - I always wondered what guys thought of The Rules. I'd never read the thing in detail until today actually. I was just vaguely aware of them: don't call a man, don't accept a Saturday night date after Wednesday, do not seem too interested.

I always thought most of it was silly: especially the "do not let him know you are interested" part. I could be wrong but aren't men people, too? And doesn't everyone want to be liked? Why would a guy want to waste his time with someone who does not seem interested in him?

That said, there is a connundrum here: why do men who a woman is not interested in keep calling?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-01-2005
Sun, 03-27-2005 - 5:49pm

I'm probably the worst person to answer this, since people on here criticized me for being to lenient with my long distance interest...LOL But as a 6 year veteran of the online dating scene, what the heck is wrong with being impulsive every now and then? Whatever. Sometimes, life is about making sweet mistakes. I've NEVER had an unsafe experience online in 6 years. No married men, no rapists, no liars. Guys that turn out to be goofy in person, maybe, but most are BETTER looking. Be more careful, and get their info. Do try an internet search with every guy. Luckily the guys I've dated, had info about them by doing a reverse phone searches, and such. Do it, forget it as a stalking thing. It's a safety thing.

As for this situation, it was a mistake. It's not safe to go out with someone that quickly, but have I done it? Absolutely. I did it and ended up dating that very, very hot guy for 9 months, until we graduated and I moved back to New York. It wasn't a desperation thing. Just a hot summer night with nothing to do and we hit it off. It wasn't wise, but it happens. Don't beat yourself up. People who would tell you "shame on you," just get off on being judgemental. The point is to toss 2cents in, not judge.

As for playing the rules? I would definitely back off. If you let him see you have a life and disapear, he'll come through soon enough.

I would definitely try to date numerous men. It's really good to do, because no one gets 100% of the attention all the time. You can dote on one for a couple weeks, then you can dote on another. And no, it's not anyone's business to know if you're dating other men. You're NOT commited to them. Tell them that you date others, if they ask. You just can't sleep with the guys. It's what our mothers did They dated. In fact my mother was dating several guys, including my dad, until they got engaged. They didn't make some dork their steady, until they were sure he was worth it. Just do it and you will see a change in the relationships you have. The men get more aggressive about dating you.

In regards to the Rules, I definitely DO NOT initiate calls to men any more. I don't believe in that complete withdrawal. That's dumb. You can call them if a month goes by just to get that confirm or deny. Men get ignored, just like women do, so if you don't reach out at all, he's going to give up. That's why the rules are not to be taken so literally. I wouldn't make any phone calls right after a date.

It's so crazy to play games, but it is a game. It's a game, that no one should ever speaks about. Men play it without knowledge. We do have to just acknowledge that the game is in play, and give them the chase they instinctually need. You have to see your dates as butterflies. You have to let them go, and see if they fly back. They usually do. It's hard to deal with actual rejection...nothing worse BUT oh well. You've got to get thicker skin.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-15-2004
Sun, 03-27-2005 - 6:13pm

Well, I have posted my opinion on "The Rules" before, but I will give my 2 cents again.

I think "The Rules" is actually just game playing. I've never really understood it. It's trying to make the other person believe you think a certain way about him/her, when you might actually feel the opposite way. So, a guy calls and you're supposed to wait a certain amount of time and call him back, or you're supposed to feign disinterest when you really would love to go out the night he asked you.

The big fallacy in "The Rules" is this: acting cool or "playing hard to get" is not going to make an uninterested guy start to be interested all of a sudden. Same thing goes for telling a guy how much you like him -- it's not going to scare off a guy who is really into you.

I say just be yourself and go with the moment. If you like someone, tell them. If you want to go out when he asks you, say yes.

Eric

Avatar for northwestwanderer
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 03-27-2005 - 6:23pm

In answer to your question: It's my strong belief that a good-sized percentage of the population is actually somewhat whacked, mentally/emotionally, and therefore, someone ignoring them actually makes them MORE interested. I don't want that type of guy, personally, and a healthy guy doesn't want that type of woman.

Sadly, emotional health isn't emphasized in our society so it's hard to find people who exhibit it.

Sheri

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Sun, 03-27-2005 - 8:11pm

I'm with NGOL and Eric on this. I was never a big fan of "the rules". I had always viewed it as "game playing". I treat people the way I would want to be treated.

I had my own modified version of it too. But it was more of a safety issue. For example, I would never meet someone from online without a few emails or phone calls first.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2005
Sun, 03-27-2005 - 8:31pm

I've more or less finished the book and I think most of it is sexist hogwash: if you aren't attracting the kind of man you want, loose weight and get a new hairstyle. I've seen women much bigger than I in happy relationships. If you think your husband isn't paying enough attention to you lose weight, get a manicure, make yourself look sexy. Not once does it say that the guy should look sexy for you.

>>I had my own modified version of it too. But it was more of a safety issue. For example, I would never meet someone from online without a few emails or phone calls first.<<

I do not think that those Rules Women take the safety issue seriously. They keep talking about having a lot of blind dates which never having been on one sounds much worse than online dating to me. They say he should pick you up - AND HAVE HIM KNOW WHERE I LIVE BEFORE THE THIRD DATE??? They say WE have to give THEM our number. In the era of cellphones that is fine but this book was written in 1995 and those silly women said "If you don't feel comfortable giving him your number invest in a voicemail system. If you don't feel comfortable giving him your number you shouldn't be going out with him." How do you know until you meet him? I also have a disposable email address that goes straight to my real email address. These are standard with SBC/Yahoo. If I didn't have that I would set up a hotmail account or something.

Oh wait and we are supposed to give them our number but not our business card because that is too easy. We want him to fumble for a pen - because we never carry one - I like my grad school business cards. They have my cell number and my school address which makes it harder to find me. I also do not really enjoy watching a man fumbling for a pen nor do I want to give my number out aloud, if I don't have to.

Oh and assuming we do manage to rope the guy into marriage - we have to keep this up once we are married! YIKES! TOO MUCH WORK!

I basically got one thing out of the book - do not be available all the time even if you are. I am available a lot on weekends - when not studying - because most of my friends are suddenly coupled - which is VERY annoying.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-31-2004
Sun, 03-27-2005 - 9:24pm

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Sheri, well said.