I'm 22, He's 38 - Okay??
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| Wed, 02-18-2004 - 2:35pm |
I'm new to this board, and I have read a lot of other people's messages. But now I'm here to get a little advice for myself. I man came in to my month about 5 months ago, via WORK. We hit it off right away as far as flirty/banter kinda back and forth - we were very sarcastic with one another, and after we got over being kinda rude to eachother, we realized there were some feelings there obviously.
I will cut to the problem, I think I am in love with this man, we have spent hours upon hours of talking with eachother, holding eachother, making eachother laugh. My red flag number 1 is that we work together - he isn't my boss or anything but we work together. Number 2 flag is that he is 38! I have tried to act mostly okay with this, and for the most part I don't really care what people think. I'm more worried about long term, since it's been several months now and I'm realizing my feelings just seem to be getting stronger for this man. He's loving, caring, thoughtful, sarcastic, funny, sexual, he's never been married and has no children! I love all of it! In past relationships with younger men or men my age I just don't seem to feel that security and love and ADULT relationship type of feelings with them. I have been through a lot for my age already and even though I'm almost 23 I feel like I'm almost about 27.
I need help on deciding whether to persue this relationship with this man with 15.5 years age difference between us?? How will it be when I'm 35 and he's 50?? What about Sex? What about all that stuff?? PLEASE HELP!

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As for you feeling older than your 23 years... You say you feel ALMOST 27. I'm sorry, but this is a pretty childish statement to make. You saying you feel ALMOST 4 years older than you are doesn't really make any sense. And having been both 23 and 27, I can say that there's not a whole heck of a lot of difference between the two when you're comparing yourself to a 38 year old. And even if you were ALMOST 27, There would still be an 11 year age difference, which would likely still bring some feelings of anxiety.
What I would suggest is regardless of how old you are, is Try each other on for size. While it this could be a long-term relationship, don't jump the gun either. You don't have to figure anything out right now. But, if you're already concerned about what life will be like when he's 50 and you're 35, than IMHO, you're not really ready for a relationship like this. Sex is sex. Just because he's older, doesn't mean that he'll suddenly become impotent the day you get married. That's a pretty bad stereotype. I'm sure he functions just like any other man. But if you still have these prejudices, you should certainly look into them if you're serious about getting involved with him.
You're 22 and there are plenty of things you haven't yet experienced in life - such as relocating for a promotion, such as running a marathon, such as a self-paid expensive vacation to a destination of your choice...and that's just not even touching he tip of the iceberg. There's lots of life experiences you haven't had...becuase yo'ure just 22. Just out of school, or just now getting on your shaky financial feet, just now leaving home and having the freedom to do what you want how you want at your own expense...and figuring out you weren't so much doing what you did when living at home becuase it was what you wanted to do - it was either in compliance with or defiance of the rules - depending on if you were a rebel or not, or your familial situation as a whole.
He's 38....he's lived on his own, had his 3-somes, been to the Bahamas a couple of times....at 38 he's much closer to retirement and retirement planning than you - and thus he's got to consider his future and his security whenever he does anything. You have a few years to work,pay off your loans, change jobs a few times because you want to - before you get focused and have to settle down, start saving in he 401k, and putting back for medical expenses.
So while people will tell you age is the problem...it's not, it's a difference in life experience that will probably be the downfall.
See, the life you're living now at 22....did you create it all on your own? Did you finance the apartment and choose it based on options - or was it all you could afford, or did mom and dad help set you up there and the lifestyle you've got is a combination of what you're able to maintain - once they obtained it for you?
Don't assume that his life is anything but precisely what HE wants and what HE has created because it is what HE desires. He's 38...and what he doesn't want, and is avoiding by not dating someone his own age, is accountability. You're likely to think everything he does it adult and mature...that he's been "waiting to have kids, own a house, etc. etc."...he hasn't been "waiting" for anything he wants - he's got everything he wants. Including a lifestyle without obligation, commitment and responsibility except in areas where he values and prioritizes it.
Being that your experiences aren't equal in terms of "what you need to know to know what you want from life" - what you're relegating yourself to is living by his values, priorities, standards, and for his goals...becuase you won't have the option to develop your own, other than what you already have in place.
That's where the "age" comes in...he's already been there, done that, doesn't want to do it again - and can't afford in the timeframe he's got to do it - if he's to prioritize his future, his retirement, etc.
You haven't been there, done that, you'd like to try it - and while you do have the time to do it and still have a secure and solid future in retirement - you won't have the option or opportunity if you're with him - the disparity in prioritization is th eproblem there.
So that's what you're looking at....to be honest, I doubt seriously despite whatever he thinks that he wants a relationship. He might easily enjoy dating you for quite an extended period of time with exclusivity in the mix at all times...becuase at 22 you're not likely to press for engagement in a year - unlike most women his age, with a wedding date soon to follow. And you're very likely not to question his methods, standards, criteria or requirements becuase your life experience and his are so vastly different in percentage that you'll default to "this is how older, mature people do relationships and that's why this is how it is" - you'll do that for alot of things, you're probably doing it now and don't realize it.
I'd say date him....if you want - because at 22 you're not likely looking to settle down with anybody at all. And at 38, if he hasn't settled down and had kids and is dating 22 year olds - it's not because he hasn't found the right woman...it's because he doesn't want a committed relationship and in dating someone his age that is all they want and will accept if he's to have dating as a option.
Dating isn't a relationship - dating is fun, sex if it's mutuall agreed to, and companionship - while you each get to know each other. If you're smart rather than just working on impressing and pleasing him - you'll see if his actions, decisions, and words are consistent and congruent and if they meet your standards and needs, as well as working on impressing him.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
I moved out on my own and have been working full time and just doing my thing with friends here and there, taking time to heal and figure out what I want from a husband and a partner. I know what I DON'T want for sure.
I have been asked out so many times, but I just don't know, I don't have a strong desire to DATE. I like to date people I know first, every guy I have ever been seriously interested in, has been a friend first or mutual aquaintance or what not.
I agree with a lot of things you guys have said (although it's hard to hear sometimes) My mom and step dad have 14 years between them and have a pretty good marriage still, but she was older when she married him (35). My boss also got married to her husband when she was 24 and he's 16 years older than her, they have been married 14 years now.
This guy was engaged at one time, when he was much younger and it didn't work out, I think ever since then he's been comparing every relationship to HER, and none have lived up so he never got married - I frown upon someone settling - just to get married. If he didn't find the ONE yet, he didn't find it. That does not mean he is not serious about me. He's never dated anyone close to my age really, when we first met he thought i was older. And I know that he can still have sex at 50, geez. Also would like to say as far as sex goes - I'm the opposite, I've been there done that with sexual experiences - 3some, bi experiences, the works. He hasn't done those things.
So I don't know what else to say, all I know is I guess time will tell... :) I wish there would of been SOME positive comments in all this..
Thank YOU :)
Edited 2/18/2004 6:29:33 PM ET by greeneyedchickie
Edited 2/18/2004 10:25:39 PM ET by greeneyedchickie
The main red flag, is that he talks about a girl he used to be engaged with. If he is always comparing you to her, you have to question that. Why the hell is he doing that? Get over it! That girl is long gone. Every women is like a delicate beautiful musical instrument, each with their own tones and characteristics, and uniqueness to offer. They should be savored and enjoyed individually. I would never want a girl comparing me to her ex at every turn of the corner.
I know its negative but I just wanted you to see this from the other side of the fence. But then again, on average, women marry men at least a few years older than they are.
Did you tell him about your sexual experiences when you were in college? How did he handle that? Hehe, I probably would have choked on the food. Maybe I grew up in a household that was too old-fashioned and sheltered. Spent too much time hitting the books and working, I'm 28yo and have been in school practically every year since kindergarten.
Great relationships are based in equality, mutual benefit and honest communication. They've got trust and harmony and security because the people share values, priorities, boundaries, standards, and definitions of a great life and how to achieve that.
You know if someone shares those things externally by the life they've created prior to you. A propped up environment isn't an indication of what they truly value or will sacrifice to achieve or obtain. A self-made environment is very indicative of what they value and prioritize and will not sacrifice in order to have you in their life.
I.e., If someone is an athlete they do not sacrifice the training, the eating, the coaching, the competing - you have to fit in around it in order to be in their life. If they're being an athlete to kill time until something better comes alon to do - you easily might find yourself with someone out of shape and out of sorts pretty quick when they gave up everything they had structured their life around because the feelings you inspired in them were so strong...and now they have nothing they can rely on or understand, and they're not in the shape they were in before.
Basically - if someone is emotionally driven vs. factually assessing and goal oriented - there is a problem. Because emotionally driven people act on feelings as if they were facts, goals and calls to action...but feelings are a result of situation and situations are constantly changing with actions, decisions and words - so feeling fluctuate accordingly. They can't be what you use as a gauge or a call to action or a goal that you try to achieve or appease.
HE is 38, while you're "like 27" in maturity - you're not 27 yet. And at 38, he's pretty much got what he prioritizes in his life and it'll be evident before you. If he prioritizes his profession - he'll have advanced in it, not switched jobs 24,000 times. And if he prioritizes ownership and possession of conventional standards of success - it'll be evident by owning a home, and a decent vehicle, etc. If he prioritizes responsible and practical living - it'll be evident in his style of dress, his choice of places to go, his interests, and his friends - because they'll be the ones to clue you in if you know what to look for that what he's now doing or saying or wearing is out of character for him.
At 38, he's still a hottie....I know I was hotter at 38 than I was 28 and I'm female. He's buff and trim and very fit, quite likely - if he were balding, paunchy, and without social graces I doubt you'd be giving him a second glance, as well you shouldn't at 22.
So, project a little further down the road - and realize that the 16 year difference between you is going to look like this. If you can, see pictures of his father and mother and what they looked like as they aged - for his aging will be determined by that to some extent. If his mother's family begins to go bald at 42...he's likely to begin to lose his hair in a year or so. If his family tends to be paunchy and pudgy, realize that slowed metabolism, less muscle mass and less energy and exertion in exercise will have hsi body mirroring theirs - no matter how careful he is, he will gain weight - as will you.
when you're 28, he's going to be 52. if you can, see a picture of his parents at 52...and can you imagine in just 6 years being attracted to someone who looks like that? I fnot - that is the reality you'll face.
I know when I married the guy at 40 when I was 20.....I asn't overmuch on looks at the time. While some said it was mature..the reality proved different. I was terrified, overweight, undereduated and on the run from a murderous ex with an infant. This guy was 40 - he as stable, secure, settled, he was in law enforcement (yes, even the desire for protection didn't escape me!). His looks literally couldn't have mattered less...because mine were substandard by my estimation at the time and I didn't see any likelihood of that changing. Fat adolescents make fat adults, as a rule. All I knew was the overwhelming need for everything he represented and had was consuming.....and I wanted "him"...or more accurately put - all he offered, although it was on a very subconscious level and I couldn't have access it if you'd asked me to, and denied it staunchly which I did - when presented with it as evidence. Even HE and I had a discussion prior to this relationship beginning - he said if the relationship went somewhere long-term and at some point I decided in that my immature, inexperienced state I had made a life decision I didn't want to live with, just say so. And he'd leave. He didn't want me to stay out of guilt for rescuing from my ineptitude and stupidity, and he didn't want me to stay for the "good of the child" while resenting him and myself all the while.
Five years after the marriage...the situation less grave, the professional status on my part resolved, the fat a non-issue due to an eating disorder...the lifestyle mine by way of my parents financing....he was most assuredly what I did not want, need, or would tolerate any longer. HE was now 45...and in my eyes the wrong man to be escorting me on his arm.
Looking back today, at 40....I have a picture of he and I at 20...when people that didn't know him commented on what a beautiful daughter and grandson he had (that made us both cringe) and I look at a picture of him in his uniform at 45...he really didn't age all that much - not like my inexperienced 20-something eyes said he did. It's just that I was measuring myself by him - and when he was superior in my eyes, I was acceptable. And when he was not superior in my eyes, I wanted disassociate immediately so that I didn't reinforce my own negativity.
I will say I had a former step-mother in law that was 30 when she married my ex father in law. HE was 50. IT was quite a good marriage for 10 years, until he passed away. She worked and they lived in the lifestyle she'd have never afforded on her own, she spent from 30 to 40 being his wife, going on cruises on her vacations, and having quiet dinners with him during the work week. She raised her 10 year old son there and he was 18 when he left home...that left them two years to each "just each other." The longevity in that family was never past 63 for men....and after he passed away, in very frank conversation which I understood completely - she said that she had banked on that fact becoming her reality.
That she had secured for herself and her son a future that she couldn't have provided without marriage to someone so wealthy, and so generous. HE hadn't been a bad companion at all, she'd loved him like she did a brother or a father, the sex was less than frequent and whenever she could she declined his advances....but she stuck with it 10 years without a regret, never having an ill thought of him....she really did love him in the ONLY way she was capable of loving anybody at that time in her life.
She'd married a parent......someone to provide her with what she couldn't, to accept her in all circumstances....and she regarded hiim as a loving, kind, gentle, and generous man.
The NEXT guy she married.....she didn't look for a parental role model, nor did she do anything irrationally dysfunctional either. She had 2 million in cash and stock options, she had a condo, a beautiful car, a retirement she had provided for herself through 20 years of working for the same organization...she traveled, she found her next mate that was her own age, taht could share her intrests, that had his own financial security - and they've been going strong now for about 12 years and counting...she's hoping doesn't pass away anytime soon, and when she began to seriously consider a life with him she told me the first question she asked was "how long do the men in your family live" and was relived to hear that they generally live to their mid-70's...whereas she had been quite relieved and content to hear that her deceased husband's family generally passed away in their late 50's to early 60's.
She shared interests, values, definitions of a great life and how to achieve it with this man....she shared none of that with her deceased husband.
That's just a few thoughts...because someday you will be 27 for real...and when you are he'll be 43. You'll still be attractive to, and find attractive men your own age...the question is will you find a him appealing and attractive as his age, which doesn't match your own.
One thing that really is a huge issue is "peer alliance". If you're expecting someone that is 38 to interact with the 20 somethings you run with - do what you do, all the time, and enjoy what you do, and see it from the perspective they do - you're in for a culture shock.
If you're fully expecting to bypass whatever immature, or unnecessary, frivolous, or inappropriate type of activities that your peer group does without resentment - while you ingratiate yourself with his peer group, doing what appeals to them and learning to make it appeal to you - it might work.
Because what really does seem to be the downfall in all the May-December relationships is that peer alliance. If you're associating with people your own age - they're going to want to do, and are able to do things that people his age don't want to do, or dont' think is right to do. If you're affiliating with them at work, and "whenever he's not around" - his guidelines and standards at some point are going to be considered restrictive - and you're likely to rebel against them or at least regret adhering to them.
If you affiliate with people his age primarily, and you relate well to that age group primarily - you'll have less trouble.
To be honest....that marriage to the cop would have worked, despite the age difference, if I'd have been more self-aware. Because I was always more comfortable with people older than me. My parents were 40 and 42 when I was born. I related much better to people at least 10 years my senior all my life - and still do for the most part. What did that marriage in was me being "older than my years" when I was 19......I was very practical, logical, realistic and had no use for emotional response or component. I looked at the facts of the situation and said I'll take this offer as a solution and stick with it thru thick and thin. I do believe I would have done just that....except I began to affiliate with people my age at my job, who wanted to do things I'd never done or had the option to do - such as dance, and go to clubs, and scuba dive, and go on vacations, etc. My childhood and adolescents had put me in a position of distance from my peers so I was never able to relate to them, or be related to by them. For once I "fit in" due to the weight loss and the professional position. I was actually "over" them - but you'd have never known it even on the job. And that was the downfall.
Because the minute I began affiliating with them - I began to perceive that the restrictions, requirements, obligations and commitments of htis marriage were interfering with my options, potential, and opportunities. Everything just happened to "logistically aligned" - in that my parents were the financiers of our home, and that my lifestyle was one I could maintain financially once it had been procured by someone else.
When the desire to see the Bahamas, dance topless on the beach in Spain, go to the public relations events where I was the hostess and take a corporate jet to parts unknown at the end of the night became too much...I let him know as kindly as possible that the marriage was over. I wasn't "nice" - but I wasn't rude. And truthfully - we'd had the ocnversation 5 years before, and so he wasn't that shocked.
He considered it a great relationship while it had lasted...we've remained somewhat friendly over the years because he's never divested himself of self-imposed obligations to my son. A few years ago we did talk about it - did he perceive that the marriage was "time well spent or time served" - given that he'd never married again and was only 45 when we split. He said that he considered it a learning experience, but that honestly, he was glad I had ended it when I did. That he could feel the displeasure and unhappiness mounting in me - and we'd never had an emotional bond so much as a desire for "a relationship and all it would bring" without assessing if our partners shared that same definition and desire and goal. HE said the pressure within him was constant and he really didn't need that while doing his job in law enforcement...he was always wondering when the next time we had sex if he couldn't get it up - what my reaction would be. IF the next time he gained a few pounds and needed a new size of uniform - would I say something given my new figure and my attitude with it and my adoring it with as little amount of clothing as possible at all times. HE said at one point just prior to me asking him to leave.....he had a thought while driving his patrol car that shocked him. He understood why my parents had kicked me out at 17 when I was rebelling against them....becuase if he'd been my dad and I was acting like i was right then in our marriage, he'd have kicked me out if he hadn't taken vows that said he wouldn't. HE said he knew right then that if he thought of me as a rebellious child...my attitude was probably inspired by my perception of him as a restrictive parent.
Could we have worked thru that had we discussed it honestly? I don't know. I know I wasn't open to discussion regarding the marriage remaining intact. I was nice about it - but firm. I was done. And he didn't fight it - because so many people had told him not to marry someone in the position I was in, nor to marry someone unsure of what she wanted in life and having set out to achieve it on her own prior to meeting him. HE didn't want the public embarrassment - he was going to have to be a public figure for the next 15 years.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
...then you're saying, you wouldn't be giving a second look if he was balding, etc. Well, which one is it? If she is just dating this guy at 38 because he may be more mature and different from guys around her age, then looks may not be much of a factor. Otherwise, if she wants a hottie, date a guy in his 20's. Its also a two-way street, a guy who is 38 who can get a girl who is 22, would gladly pass up a women in her 30's or 40's, especially for a fling.
Don't fool yourself about age. Noone is hotter at the age of 40 than they were when they were at 22. If greeneyed placed looks as a top priority, she could probably find a better looking, younger guy.
Also, just because I guy is 38yo, doesn't guarantee he has his act together. Greeneyed says she is 22 but has a maturity level of 27. What if this guy's maturity level is that of a 25 year old? Maybe he has an excellent career but has zero emotional intelligence.
His maturity level is DEFINITELY not 25, but I do agree that just because a man is 38 or 45 doesn't mean that he has is Sh!t together! Because my father is in his 40's and still just about as Immature and irresponsible as he was when he was in his 20's. I have met so many "hot" guys who are just STUPID, BORING, "players" - a lot of them can't even carry on a conversation to save their life! I make a sarcastic joke and they are like what? are you serious - than I have to explain my joke. Ha (just an example) I know as far as guys concerned that some are young for their age, some are old for their age, it isn't really about THAT
I really do not think I am a FLING to this man, I know him a lot better than that, this isn't some guy I met at a bar and he was one way with me and swept me off my feet. We were friends prior to developing feelings with eachother - the feelings grew over time, I know how he is probably better than anyone he works with or some of his good friends even maybe. I know he is not one way with me and another way with others.
Is that enough for you today....and will it be enough for ten years from now - when it sounds very much like you'll have changed and matured based on new life experiences.
Basically, you might find yourself with a 50 year old that is 30 in terms of perception, outlook, maturity, reasoning, and wilingness of a level to conduct themselves...are you okay with that?
It might very well be that you're mature beyond your years and now want to be "38" and he's appropriately mature and resonsible - and you have a real problem relating to your peers becuase you're "older than they are" in terms of perception, goal focus, values and priorities.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
Let me start by saying the older a guy is, the better he is, if you know what I mean ;). Aside from that, whether he had threesomes in the Bahamas, as one post put it, or if the only gal he's lived with is his mom, it's up to you to discover his true character. It sounds like you guys have an amusing Harry-Met-Sally relationship as it is. Take it slow and see what develops.
Oh, and keep us updated ;)
I think I'm going to take one day at a time, and just see how things go. But at least I'm going in to this being aware of the age difference and not just thinking whatever, I will keep my eyes open!
Thanks All!
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