Everybody loves Raymond, but WORSE

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2005
Everybody loves Raymond, but WORSE
15
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 3:42pm

Hi,

I am facing a horrible situation with my in-laws. I will try to give the short story. First off, I have a 3 year old child with husband-- we actually finally just got married 3 months ago though. We had been together for 7 years total now, but obviously our son came a little unexpectedly and we decided to get married later so that it would be it's own special event between the two of us... not just because I was pregnant.

Anyway, we have been living across the street from my MIL and FIL since my son was born (3 years). It is the first grandchild. Of course, yes he is very spoiled. Not just by MIL, but SIL, and Great Aunt (Sister to my MIL--which she doesn't have children). They all live in a very close proximity. They all love him dearly-- which is so GREAT, but they are obsessed-- not an under statement. My DH and his two siblings were very spoiled as they were growing up and this is the case with my son. Well, I have some rules that I have for my child and nobody seems to respect these rules. This situation has been confronted in a kind way. I'm very passive because it is the 3 ladies against me and I want to be liked and feel a part of the family and my own DH can't tell them (even though he doesn't like it) so how am suppose to tell them. For example, the Great Aunt was teaching my son at 2-1/2 years old to say "You're Psycho, no you're Psycho". My DH (so did my SIL and MIL) heard her teaching him this, but couldn't even tell her to stop it even though he thought it was the stupidest thing ever. By the way, please know that these people actually would appear to have class, just lacking a little commen sense (apparently). Another example is when the Great Aunt taught my son to plug is ears and say "I can't hear you mommy, I can't hear you". It is like she is pressing my buttons purposely.

Just providing some backgound. My MIL/FIL have a cabin that the family tends to flock to around the long weekends (Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, New Years) and there are about 20 people that stay in this 4 room cabin. Well everybody is up late partying and what not and me with the only child can't get my kid to bed. Not to mention the noise, but that they have been feeding him junk to keep him really crazy. Well, I don't like that. I don't even like it if I wanted to go to bed-- it is too loud. Nobody can sleep until they opted to stop partying. Now not only are they going to the cabin (3 hours from where we live) on the long weekends, but they would like to incorporate this into our calendar as often as possible. The sole reason that going to the cabin has become so popular is because so they can see my son for this whole time. You have to understand that when he is there-- I lose all control of him. They decide what he is going to eat (which is usually too much junk), they decide when he is going to play outside, they decide where he will sleep and he (my son) decides when he will sleep because they allow for that. It just eats me up. In order to get a little control and to be out of the situation we (my DH and son) brought our tent up and slept in that. Well, they didn't like that... How dare us stay in a tent and take our child away from them.

Well, let me explain the most recent situation....

It was right after Thanksgiving, I picked up the vibe that my MIL was mad at me. I assumed it was because we spent Thanksgiving w/ my family, rather than hers and they went to the cabin on following Friday to Sunday and expected that we go and we didn't-- we are renovating our house/husband owns his own electrical company as well--busy, busy. Please also note she has every other holiday (including coloring Easter Eggs and Carving Pumkins-- no kidding)

The next weekend MIL came to my house and I was in my bedroom, on the phone, folding laundry. So I stayed in there because I didn't want to talk to her--mostly because I emailed her asking if everything was alright because I noticed she had been very quiet and she never responded so I was frusterated because she picks and chooses on what emails to respond to. She ended up knocking on the bedroom door and saying "Can you come out so I can talk to you for a minute?". So I said I would be out in a minute.

So I then came out and went into my son's room, where she was. She said "What is going on?" I told her that I had wondered the same thing. I said, I emailed you and asked what was wrong and you never responded and she said that she had a long email started but decided not to send it because email can be taken so wrong. So I said, what was the problem. She said, I just have felt for over a month that something was wrong, like I was being banished. I was like not at all. We are just trying to do our thing. She said that she had to talk about this because on Friday when she saw my DH she talked to him about taking our son to a Christmas lighting ceremony and she said my DH just got so defensive and said that "He just wanted to spend time with his son". She said, I just don't know why he felt he needed to be so defensive and she knew she had to find out what was wrong. BASIC PROBLEM-- BOTH DH and I FEEL VERY INTRUDED ON OUR LIFE AND EVERYTHING IS PLANNED FOR US. Somehow we went into the following:

I said the cabin is not my thing. She cried and said that cabin was built so that her kids and the grandchildren would have memories. I said I just don't like how chaotic it was. Essentially and I probably will explain more to her about this because I think this is going to be used against me most-- I don't like that I lose all decision making for my child and it isn't really child-friendly in their cabin because people are up late being loud and he can't sleep until all the partiers go to bed-- WAY TO MUCH FOR A LITTLE KID!!! I pointed out how he was up until 3:00 in the morning and Great Aunt fed him cake at that time. I said, that was NOT FUNNY AT ALL- IT WAS COMPLETELY STUPID. Nothing about that situation made me happy.


I told her about how she didn't give me a hug on my wedding day and asked how she thinks that made me feel. I told her that I didn't think any of them showed any excitement. She said, she didn't realize she didn't and that I should know that she was happy with all the help she did. I didn't tell her this, but the only thing she did was financially help us (because she did for the other siblings too) and minimal help with putting things together. She of course watched my son which is what she volunteered to do at all times.

I told her that I appreciate their help when they do watch him. Which i do. Sometimes I think we'd be better off hiring a teenager-- but that would really offend them.

I told her that I don't like that they plan all these fun things w/ my son and don't even think that we might want to be a part of it. I told her if they would think of something that sounds like fun, I might want to be a part of it, but I wouldn't want a whole group (SIL, her husband, Great Aunt and her husband MIL, me, DH and my son) to be going. I would like it more individual. I explained when everybody goes I don't even feel like anybody would recognize that I am his mother because I am tailing behind. She asked why that would be important to me. I said because I am proud to be his mother and I want to experience these exciting things with him. I told her also that I want to be the one to decide if he is getting cotton candy and a slurpy, but I can't because it is already done for me.

She told me that I need to tell everybody when they are doing something I don't like. I said, how am I suppose to when my DH can't even be upfront with you guys. I said, DH sat there irritated as ever as Great Aunt taught my son to say "Your Psycho, No your Psycho" and he couldn't even say-- HEY, WHAT THE HECK WOULD YOU BE TEACHING HIM THAT FOR? I said, if he can't be up front, how easy do you think that it makes it for me. I said, why wouldn't it be easy for DH to tell you guys how he feels? She said, probably a respect thing. PLEASE! Where is the respect to Nick and I for our decisions to our child. This crap is all common sense.

I talked about how None of them spend time w/ their other side of the family so they have all this free time. I said, I WANT to spend time w/ my family too. I said, it goes 2 months before I get to see my sister a lot of times. MIL thought for some reason last Easter I spent time w/ my sister when in fact I spent the whole day w/ them and she tried to compare Easter and how she THOUGHT that I spent time w/ my family, but didn't make it important to get over and see them for Thanksgiving. I wanted to laugh... I named all the holidays that they get, that my family does NOT. I can't believe that she can't except the one holiday I have chosen to spend with my family all day!

I told her that if I said, "yes" to everything that they wanted me to say "yes" to -- just to make them happy, then I would be the one that is unhappy and that is NOT fair. I can't do it. I said, NONE of my decisions are made to make them upset, they are made based on what makes "us" happy.

I put her in place! I was very strong. I didn't shy off about anything.

Well, this past weekend-- the day of my son's 3rd birthday...MIL and I fought again. It is at it's worst. I cried my eyes out to MIL while she said the following:

Accusing me as the sole reason my DH was "defensive" with her when she wanted to take him to the Christmas Lighting thing and my DH just wanted to spend sometime w/ my son. I wasn't even going to be home that particular day and MIL knew it so she probably thinks that she automatically was going to be able to have our son because her son (my DH) couldn't possibly say "no" to her. Well, when he did she decideed I must have been the cause of it and that I had all the cards (as she said) She said I am changing him. This is all crap... We are our own family and he does actually like us to be alone together and he actually does realize that they are overwhelming and they aren't making the best decisions for our son.

She insinuated that I am like my mom was as a parent-- which is suppose to be a dig because my mom and I are not close. Obviously I want to be close w/ my son so that is ridiculous.

Tells me that I need to make decisions based on what is good for my son and not what is good for me. Basically I should let my son go up north when ever they ask so he has those wonderful memories. Well, i'm sorry i work full time and I don't want my son gone on the weekends all the time! NO WAY! I enjoy that time with him.

Tells me that all I said was "I, I, I," --insinuating selfishness w/ my decisions for my son.

MIL mentioned my comment about feeling disrespected when they don't follow my requests for what I feel is good for my son. She tells me that I need to respect her -because she has been around a lot longer. Says I tell her things that hurt her, when I should bite my tongue. I told her that my DH said he sometimes feels like he never moved out of his parents house because they are around all the time. I only told her this because she was accusing me that I was the cause of her son changing. I explained to her that her drop in visits didn't really bother me at all-- I just didn't like the amount of time that they were thinking they were entitled to spend away from our home.... He needs structure and guidelines and when they are with him there isn't any.

MIL told me that Great Aunt has been crying all week so I also contact her to get this all out on the table. She said the following:

She said we just have our differences (her and I) which is funny because when she was trying to schmooze me to get my son whenever she wanted she said she connects with me so much and we just have this bond that she loves.

Says that my upbringing may have affected who I am as a mother. Possibly from my parents divorce. Funny thing is -- it did affect me.. I became a very independant woman. I put myself through college and paid for it as I signed up for each semester. Not one ounce of help from anybody. I am a very optimistic person and I really hate when people are mad at me (my family and friends) and this includes them. It makes me so sad and hurt. I worry the damage that they can have on my marriage.

Says that I need to be more confident about my mothering skills. That I shouldn't feel guilty about letting my child go with others as frequent as it helps out with our busy schedule. Says even if they wanted to take my son to Disney World I should be okay with that. Basically, so that it benefits them. Man, if my family was demanding such as this, we wouldn't have any time w/ our son. My family does love our son, but can understand our busy lives.

She also said some insulting things about my mom and my sister.

Well, I thought I could make it short, but obviously I couldn't.

I need advice on how to deal with this or tell me if I am wrong for my feelings-- I need the truth from an outsider.

Please, also understand they see him 3 - 4 times a week and this always includes the weekend, unless they go to the cabin and we don't. They've taken him to his first movie without us, to festivals, the list goes on.

By the way my DH does support me and said he would talk to them (when? I don't know) and he doesn't want me to be upset. I do definitely want him to talk to them, but I am affraid that MIL is going to play a guilt trip on him and then manipulate my words so it causes us to fight. She is the queen of manipulation.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-18-2006
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 4:17pm

Wow, Everybody Loves Raymond is not even a comparrison! Anyway, this is my take on it...First of all congrats on being newlyweds, my hubby and I are new as well, and boy are things different!

Well, the cabin does not sound like a suitable place for the child, especially if he is up at 3am eating cake - bigggg No No. You should have scheduled visits with Grandma. It is ridiculous that they feel they can take YOUR child whenever they please. Create a schedule where your son sees your inlaws, be fair to them, give them a reasonable amount of time. Also, be sure to include times when you spend with your child and ILs. If she wants to do "fun things" with him, you may have to accept this, after all she is just being a grandma. When she spends time with him alone its ok for her to want to take him to do fun activities. However, it is NOT ok for her to want to take him ALL the time.

Second of all, as for the cabin, maybe that too can be arraged which days you guys go up there. Or if it is only a 3 hour trip maybe you can make it a daytime trip instead of spending the night, lets say from 12 to 8pm, that gives you a lot of time to meet with the family and still get baby home to put in bed.

Thirdly, as for your husband...mine is the same way, he is a mama's boy, when i speak with her on decisions that we are making I say just that. I say "We think its better", and we also take turns, (this he does not like), he calls to tell him mother decisions we have come up with, that way she will realize its not just making making the decisions, it is my husband and I. Tell him that he is making the situation worse and making you seem like the bad guy which will eventually turn on your relationship when the MIL starts to dislike you for finally putting your foot down.

My husband and I split the holidays down the middle. They will have to understand that they are not the only family that you guys have, and its important for your son to grow up knowing both sides.

Well thats all I have to say, hope it helped.

 
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-18-2006
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 5:03pm

Thanks for the feedback. I really am not at all wanting to fight the situation-- I TRULY want to be close with them, but I can't just do whatever it is they want. That is why I have been crying my eyes out and losing sleep. I really truly do care about my relationship with them, but I just can't give in. Believe me I expressed my feelings about how I want us to close-- I want to be accepted into the family.

I actually thought about seeing how my FIL felt about all this. I have a very strong feeling that he isn't aware about the big blowout that I had w/ my MIL-- I think that she won't tell him because she realizes that he may not support what she did. I do have a WONDERFUL relationship with him-- no problems what-so-ever.

I think that I have a hard time when people have too much expectations of me (and my family) and make obligations that I think are unfair because I do NOT hold expectations from others. Oh by the way, we have to get together as an entire family for ALL of our birthdays too-- This includes all in-laws so another 13-15 obligations. Oh and we celebrate everybody's wedding annivesary so another 5 or so days. We also are obligated to go to my MIL's mom's house to what they call an "airing out the house party". Because MIL's mom is getting old it kind of has that old smell. So they get together for that a few times a summer. Then, don't forget the showers we have, the Sunday dinners. I'm NOT AT ALL saying that I don't want to do any of these things, but it is pretty bad when I look at my calendar and my weekends in the for a whole month can be committed to something to do with them. I'm telling you the list goes on and on. Plus don't forget this is NOT enough quality time with my son in their eyes. They must take him without us there. I do very much appreciate their closeness, but I need my space! They are truly good people, but I did come from a different upbringing (one of which was probably with more rules and guidelines) and I am proud of who I am and do really want to spend time with my family and of course w/ my immediate family (My husband and Son), but they book up my life. One more thing... they still want us to come over Easter morning to find our Easter Baskets... We are 30+ and although their generosity is very kind, I do really want to start our own morning traditions on these holidays and surely don't expect an Easter Basket full of presents. This is the same case for Christmas morning -- we are invited and very much feel expected to be there in the morning. I wouldn't mind actually going to church on Christmas, but I think that might be a problem because this is when they exchange their gifts and they would feel as though I am breaking up their tradition.

As Dr Phil would say-- It is not the grandparents right to see their grandchildren, it is a priviledge. I feel like I have to share custody with them. I really wish my SIL would have a baby!

Well, I think I have wrote enough. Thanks again!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-09-2006
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 6:09pm

I watch Everybody Loves Raymond. Great show. But have you noticed that while Deborah complains about Marie and is so hurt by that wench of a woman, when she gets the chance to stand her ground or has Raymond standing up for her, she turns? She wants to be free of Marie, but she also wants to be included in the fold of Marie. She backs down when she shouldn't. She bites her tongue when she shouldn't. And when she has the chance to really stick it to Marie, she wimps out and she shouldn't!


If you are around when dear ol' Auntie is teaching him bad things to say, interrupt immediately and say to her "he is not allowed to say that, please don't teach him to". If she does not comply pick up your son and remove him from her. If they are giving him junk, take it from him and say to them "he's had enough junk for today, please don't give him any more". If they don't comply pick up your son and remove him from them. They're right about one thing, it does sound like you aren't very confident in your mothering. But it's not you letting them where you lack confidence, it's you stopping them. If you know this stuff goes on, and it continues to go on, THEY are not allowing it YOU are. KWIM?


You are his mother. No guilt in standing up to others (no matter what their title, i.e. granny) to do what is right and best for your son. If she continues, she may just have to be restricted from him. It is not out of line for you to tell her "you choose to not abide by my wishes with my son, so I choose to not allow him around you when

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Avatar for mom2danjam
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 6:24pm

I agree with you. I would also like to add that none of them have the right to disparage her family. I would cut off the conversation right then and there if my inlaws decided to bash my mother or any of my family.

I would honestly stop having these little "talks". I would decide when I wanted to see these people, and I would not spend a minute more than I actually thought was fair. DOn't like it? Too bad about your luck.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-08-2004
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 7:50pm
I think that you should stop trying to get your in-laws so much. They obviously dont care whether you like them! Trying to make sure they like you, is preventing you from seeing that they are pushing you in the background to such an extent that as your child grows older he will refuse to listen to you. He will go to his grandparents whenever you disagree or try to impose discipline. You will lose complete control of your son. And I do have to agree with the other poster that you're not exactly asserting your parental rights or duty here. You do indeed seem to lack tremendous confidence. It's normal to want your MIL to like you, especially when you're not close with your mother. But when having them like you means your son grows up to be a brat, running amock till 3 am, eating junk and being disrespectful towards his mother, then you are actually doing your son a big disservice. You are actually... sorry to say this.. but you're not being a good mother (or father) to your son.
Your husband needs to understand how awful it is to bring up a child this way.. too much discipline or authority isnt good.. but too less of it is as bad. You will face the consequences of your son's upbringing when he's much older.. maybe when he's a teenager.
Have you read anything about disciplining children? Do you know how important it is? If you do.. then you should know that you are digging yourself and your son into a big big hole letting him go on like this. He will grow up to be a spoiled selfish individual and probably will not have much of chance at a happy marriage and family life. If you havent read about these things then you should definitely start informing yourself.
Definitely put a stop to this. Even if it means they talk badly of you.. accuse you of making your husband change etc. Have your husband assert for himself what he thinks of their influence on your son. Whatever it is.. dont let them take over your family like this. Be strong and remember your son should come first here. Dont cry yourself to bed because a manipulative woman of a MIL makes you feel like crap.
Given the lessons they are teaching your son, I wouldnt let them have him for more than once a week. That too under strict rules about what to feed him and how long he shoudl be awake..
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-11-2006
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 8:04pm
I'm also a newly wed, and congrats btw.
I really don't think that it's fair that you seem to be obligated to give up your son and all your free time to visit your IL's. I think that for you to have a great relationship with them they need to respect your boundries. You are not wrong to want to spend time with just your family (the 3 of you or with your family), or spend Christmas the way that you want. Discuss and setup traditions that are all your own, for just your family. Never forget that you are the parent, and what you say goes. Sick to your guns, and be confident that you are doing what's right for your son.
Good Luck
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-18-2006
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 10:53pm

You are right to want the things you want. The trick is getting them and keeping peace with your husband. I'm in the same boat, so don't feel alone. For some reason, some DHs are not able to really stand up for their wives. What I mean is...they want change too, but they are not able to be the bad guy to their moms. So even when they do support you, you are still on your own. I really don't have any advice except for remembering AT ALL TIMES that you are the mom to your child. NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD KNOWS HIM LIKE YOU DO. That has given me lots of peace when dealing with my MIL and DH.

And, I, like you, want to have a good relationship with my MIL, but I have realized that the only way possible for that to happen is for me to be her puppet. I've tried it for a few years, but after the birth of my 4th child, I decided that I couldn't do it anymore. So here I am 2 1/2 years later, and things are not "great" between MIL and me, but I'm a much happier mom to my kids. Who cares if she likes me?? And I have realized that I was never to crazy about her either! :)

Good luck!

Community Leader
Registered: 01-03-2004
Tue, 12-19-2006 - 4:33am

Blondie,


First, you aren't wrong to feel the way you do.


Second, your MIL is going to tell you that you're wrong because you've threatened her dominance by asserting yourself. I'm not at all surprised she is pushing back big time after your little chat with her. You said a lot of things you had a right to say and you really did make it clear you wanted to parent your child. She didn't like that and now she's trying to reinstate herself as the dominant figure in your lives.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-29-2006
Tue, 12-19-2006 - 9:20am
Congrads on the wedding! You must be going out of your mind dealing with all of this! I agree with what everone else has more or less said. Do not feel bad or guilty or anything like that if you dont want your son to do something. He is yours and DH's son not in-laws. At 3 years old he should not be in a enviornment when people are up until 3 in the morning and keeping him up thats crazy and if IL's wanted him up there so badly I would have thought they would respect that! If you do decide you want to go to the cabin why not have those weekends be weekends when people behave like adults with a child around and do kid friendly activities and keep kid friendly hours and the weekends your not there they can go on acting like partying teenagers! Its nice that they want to do so much however in my opinion some things are for the family by family I mean your immidiete family you,DH& son. Especially all of his "first times" DH and I do not have kids yet and already got into an argument once w/ MIL because something came up about her comming over christmas morning when we have children as that is what DH's grandparents did when they were small. To me things like Christmas morning, the first trip to the movies, first time eating cotton candy, first time doing whatever is something for the parents. Not for the rest of the family if there is something you dont mind them being a part of then you should be the ones to invite them they shouldnt just go and do these special things which you and DH im sure want to share with DS. I do say I agree with the other poster about IL not really caring about your feelings if they can say such hurtful things to you but where you are going to be around them for the rest of your life I would try to make peace and move on. However if they continue to talk this way to you I would be done with them your son is getting older now and he certainly doesnt need to hear grandma talking bad about mommy. One thing DH and I do which I would suggest is we set aside Sundays as our family" (Just DH & I day) It is something we both look forward to all week the rest of the week between work and visiting family and friends or what not it is nice to have one day when you just do things as a family. If you do big family dinners on Sundays with IL's you could use Friday nights or Sat days as your family day or you could tell IL's you'll be cutting back on Sunday dinners to just once a month so you all can have your own family time. I stronly reccomend having a day like this for you , DH and DS it sounds like IL's have your schedule very hectic and having a day like this when its strictly just the three of you I think would be very nice and relaxing!!!! Its good that DH is on the same page as you. I come from a divorced family too and ILs have made comments before (not intential or snide to me I think it was more of a they said it and forgot my parents were divorced type thing) about people who come from a divorced home and how they dont usually have good marraiges some BS like that. My thoughts are that is not true you saw what it did and you want more than that for your children! Continue to stick up for yourself this is your child you and DH call the shots and thats that.
Best Of Luck, keep us posted!
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-17-2006
Tue, 12-19-2006 - 10:08am

You are getting a lot of good advice here, you might want to print it off to look at with your DH later and the two of you decide which suggestions best fit your family. And, of course, *family* is you, DH and your child/ren. The others are *extended* family.

I do second the counseling, as both of you seem to have boundary issues - as in setting and defending them. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's usually a result of conditioning from early childhood. Obvious from your descriptions of *his* family relationships.

Have you heard the analogy of the frog and boiling water? It's often used in IL conflicts. If you put a frog into boiling water, it'll recognize the danger and jump out (meeting a family with "issues") but if you put the frog into cool water and bring the temperature to boiling, the frog doesn't really notice beyond some discomfort (born into such a family).

You mentioned that your husband gets annoyed at his mother, well, that's the "discomfort" the frog is feeling in the boiling water and without help won't know to jump out of the pot or how to bring the temperature down.

One thing that occurred to me is that you and your DH might sit down together and decide what the two of you are willing to give. Maybe one weekend night per month at the cabin? Maybe just day trips for two weekends per month? Your DS could start his sleep time on the drive back.

How about birthdays? WOW! What a partying family! An introvert's nightmare. :o) You could decide that one per month (including the one for your immediate family - you, DH and DS - or not) was plenty since you'd see all the same people at each one. Maybe just the first one each month, so it's not like you are snubbing some birthday people.

I feel a "book" coming on, so will stop with two more thoughts.

One, can you at all, possibly, even with difficulty, move farther away? Even an hour or two away from them could give you breathing space from which to operate.

Two, the boy is your child. Yours and DH's. Those people only get to see/interact with him as YOU two ALLOW!!! Keep that in mind. Print it out and frame it. Write it on little sticky notes all over the phone and front door.

YOU are the gatekeeper. If they cannot honor the boy's PARENTS, they don't need to see the boy! Period! That is not manipulation, what they are doing is manipulation. Insults, whining and accusations? That is manipulation. What you are asking is basic respect for your family's integrity, not to be a satellite in orbit around MIL.

Good luck to your family, I doubt the growth will be easy or painless but I can almost guarantee that it will be worth it. To be able to breathe without asking approval would be nice, yes? :o)

{{{hugs}}}

ilve2read

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