lots of tears last night, BIG talk

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-15-2003
lots of tears last night, BIG talk
10
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 10:42am
Well on my part at least. I'm beginning to think he is right about a lot of the things that are wrong with me. It started b/c I didn't put something away in the am that i didn't even see was out. The night before it was the fact I hadn't returned a cd to a friend yet. Both of these instances were him badgering me about it, with the cd it was relentless (*what is wrong with you? why wouldn't you return that yet? its embarrassing. are you listening to me? are you going to do it/that cd better not be here tomorrow*). He then proceeded to bring up the cd thing last night as well, and my roommate walked out of the room and said she was sick of hearing it. He said he didn't care, that he was "trying to make a point," to which she said that he had already made it several times the night before. I feel bad, this is a friend of ours who once again as a roommate is being drawn away b/c of our "arguing." Well with the situation of not putting something away (that i didn't even realize was out, but it was my fault for not checking the kitchen before i left in the morning b/c i was the last one out of the house), I first got defensive saying "i didn't even know it was out" and he got mad at me for being defensive....saying that all i needed to do was say "i'm sorry i didn't see it" in a nice way. Yet I find it hard to apologize for something i didn't even notice...but at the moment I'm so confused as to what he has legitimate points about and what he is being abusive about.

So, moving on, that conversation escalated into him saying "i'm so sick of you dragging your feet about the move. I'm sick of hearing that "you don't know what you want to do" so I'm just going to say that I am making plans to move as of May 1 whether you are or not, if you don't want to be in this relationship then just say so"......so we really got into it. It wasn't all bad, but I was pointing out that I didn't like the way he talked to me and treated me.....his defense was "oh, so you are saying everythign is my fault"....I said, no, I know i have flaws, I know I need to be better at certain things yet I feel that no matter what i do, you will always find something wrong with me....he said that if i just thought about things in advance then he wouldn't have a reason to get mad....i told him that of course he was legitimate with some of his gripes, yet his approach was wrong.....to which he said "well you shouldn't get so defensive when I say things!".....and i said that the manner that he speaks to me evokes an automatic defense mechanism.....the convo then went to him saying that he was sick of hearing that "all my friends think he's abusive to me, he's sick of hearing that and its bs b/c they only see one side"....i brought up the fact that when people witness things (not me "telling stories") then they really are making their own decisions. He said it was b/c they were typically girls....he then said that "his friends can't believe the bs that HE has to put up with".....i asked him what he was referring to and he said that it didn't matter b/c he doesn't tell me b/c he doesn't want to hurt my feelings......all this went back and forth, it went back to the moving convo and i told him my biggest fear was that he was going to call me an "f*ing idiot" in front of our children, and he said he hadn't actually "called me" that in a while, that he had only said for me not to "act" like an f*ing idiot......then asked me why would i assume that he'd do that in front of kids, i said b/c he doesn't refrain from doing it infront of anyone else....to which he said that i care too much about what other people think, that he doesn't care at all. I even broke down and told him i was seeing a therapist (not sure if that is a mistake or not); he first said that was just for chicks, that guys don't do that....but after a while he then said that "if it means losing you then I'll see one"....i told him that shouldn't be the caveat, he should actually realize what he does hurts me....anyway, you can imagine the rest, i was bawling, i'm so scared b/c he actually brought up moving without me, which i'm not sure if that is what i want or not....i can't imagine being here w/out him.....of course i go to bed and get all depressed about all our "stuff" and our "life"....i don't even think that he wants to do that but then he did say that "we were raised differntly, that his parents brought their fights out in the open and i never saw my parents argue....i told him that was wrong, it was moer that my parents would never dream of calling each other names in front of me (and probably otherwise).....i can't even make sense of all this. I can't even tell what he wants to do, but i know he doesn't want to stay here, he also blamed the fact that he thoguht we were both a little stir crazy here and that we both my take our aggressions out on each other b/c of no other outlet. he might have a point. he also said he knows he needs to "work on his wording" and that i had no idea how much he was already.

This whole convo literally went on for 3 hours, i'm sorry if it sounds all jumbled, but i can't make sense of any of it. i can't even tell what HE wants, nor can i tell what i want. i don't think he is inherently an evil person, but i do think our backgrounds are different. what would you do if you were me? again, i still love and care for him very much, he also said he knows he should compliment me more often instead of just griping. i don't know...

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 11:28am

Oh honey honey honey, your post scares me.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-15-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 11:43am
Wishful-

I guess I wasn't clear....I actually don't have children either. Its just that we talk openly about marriage (or used to, i guess i am shying away from it) & i said I feared that when we DID have kids I was afraid of his behavior in front of them.

He even said that "he was scared he couldn't give me what i wanted"....did your bf ever mention feelings like that? Mine can get so sweet and cute when he wants to....sometimes it is out of fear of losing me and i genuinely believe that at other times it is just for the sake of it. Yet, like with my birthday and xmas, calling me the day before and asking me "what the h*ll i wanted"...those things upset me. Yet he claims he doesn't buy into all the hallmark bs and then wants to do special things not on those days...or says that i need to tell him what i want, that i don't. he also tells me i am nt assertive enough, that he is sick of me being like "what do you want to do?" when it comes to planning thnigs. i don't know. what made you want to be with your SO? What made you finally end it?

thanks again

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 12:12pm
I've had this exact same, round and round and round and round. I can't tell you how many times. It's exhasting and I'm sorry to say, it only gets worse. You think it was a 'big talk' where maybe some issues came to light that will get dealt with. But no, I'm sorry, to him it was just another verbal tennis match. The winner keeps the control and the looser walks away confused and usually carrying the blame.

In, what I call, the real world (abuse free, where the normal people live) You handle an issue like this:

1. The problem is identified.

2. Solutions are suggested and discussed.

3. An action is decided upon and carried out.

4. Observations - Is it working? Is the problem solved?

If "NO" - back to step #3.

In the world of abuse, it's impossible to do this because this is co-operation and that would take away their TOTAL CONTROL.

::"This whole convo literally went on for 3 hours, i'm sorry if it sounds all jumbled, but i can't make sense of any of it."

This, we call 'crazy-making' As long as you are confused, you will not be able to see the facts. Specifically, you will be so occupied trying to figure out how to avoid his abuse that you will not realize that the problem is he is an abuser. He will not change and you can not make him. Why should he change? This works for him and all his needs get met. Every thing he said during your big talk was designed to take any blame away from him. It is just not rational that he hold you responsible for *him abusing you! This is what your life will be like forever if you stay with this guy.

This guy is soooo typical and his tactics are not original, at all. They all use them. I think we've taken care of step #1 - identifying the problem. It's him. It's what he is, plain and simple. He is an abuser, through and through. It is not you or anything you are doing or not doing. It is not your fault and you can't change it.

Time for step 2. (Well, you've already been trying some possible solutions and the observations are that the problem is not solved)

Keep looking up^, Susan.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 12:37pm

Susan is right dear.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 12:54pm

If you were unsure about him being verbally and/or emotionally abusive, look no further.

CL-Blueliner4

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-15-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 12:54pm
There is still a part of me that believes the old adage "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me".....there is a part of me that thinks "ok, this is who he is, he flies of the handle very abruptly and very irrationally, but it is over w/in 5 minutes"...he has even told me that he when he gets mad it doesn't last for long, whereas I tend to dwell on things. he is right about that...so i kinda wonder if this is just "who he is" as he has told me many times, then maybe that is just a small problem to deal with? I don't know. I know the environment we are in is wearing on him...I kinda wonder if it will change if we move, where we have more "outlets" as he says.

I'm just trying to figure what he is trying to get out of all this. He didn't really give in to me until the end of the talk, but then really acted like he understood somewhat. I know, we've had these "talks" before and he told me that he really WAS working on his behavior and that he was trying to curb the name calling and stuff---he knows that i don't deserve it (except for certain instances, as he said, but eventually took that back)....he said that if he was acting like a moron he would expect me to tell him and that he would want to know. that there is no reason in sugar coating something like that. i don't know. but thank you....i don't see him as some beer gutted sleazy guy....he isn't like that. he is athletic and smart and yes smokes a lot of pot but it doesn't bother me that much (i smoke at times as well, but it doesn't do much for me, it just puts me to sleep). He is definitely more relaxed but doesn't act like an idiot when he does. I don't know....I'm sorry you guys have gone through this as well but i hate that i keep thinking "he is different" or "he isn't that bad"...bc when he is, i know he is. he even said he wasn't "sorry" for blowing up at me in a nice restaurant when we were having issues with the bill, (even the waitstaff was listening to this, along with our roommate/friend)---he said that I was being a pain and that i shouldn't care what other people thought, that i shouldn't have been overanalyzing the bill (i was just trying not to have my roommate get cheated out of money).

Anyway. rambling again. But he does that and then he is really nice. I just don't get it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-15-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 1:03pm
cl-blueliner--

one of the things is that at times he IS the man I want. I have so much in common with him and he really has taught me a lot. I know he loves me and I know he doesn't want to be without me. I genuinely do not think he will ever lay a hand on me. And he said that he would move without me, that he was sick of hearing from his friends (as well as me) that i didn't know what i wanted to do. He even said that "maybe he isn't right for me bc he can't give me everything i need." He blames a lot of it on how he was raised/rather, how we were raised differently. I can't even tell that i am really "forgetting things" or if it is just in my nature. I know its not right to not return things immediately....that isn't right so i'm sure my friends could be bothered by that.

And then, here is a question: you say do not move with him---yet you also said he wouldnt' move w/out me. That doesn't really resolve anything then....I am not positive if i want to move or not, that has been another decision i have been dreading. I am afraid of being here without him---I don't know how people will react to me, as i said it is a small town and i have friends here but some i'm not sure who is mine and who is his/the others that are mine all appear to be in a relationship. and then there is the guy that i'm friends with that i kissed-i'm afraid that he thinks really negatively of me and has influence on other people as well. Listen to me, i sound pathetic.

and as for counseling, my therapist thinks that if we work through the issues, then he should see her partner, and then eventually we go together....i don't know. i don't necessarily want to go to couples counseling yet but i want him to go by himself i guess.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 1:21pm

Sweetie, all of the decisions in this ultimately lie with you.

CL-Blueliner4

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-15-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 1:25pm
thank you-i do appreciate it----i think i just want someone to say that it actually WILL work out, ya know? even though i know that isn't the case. sorry if i'm bothering you by dwelling on this...
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Thu, 03-11-2004 - 1:34pm

You're not bothering us.

CL-Blueliner4