Question about marital rape.....

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
Question about marital rape.....
7
Tue, 05-18-2004 - 9:58am
This is very difficult for me to talk about..and to accept and process but I just have to get this out there....

In the past couple of years I would wake up to my h groping me or even worse, actually having sex with me. Literally I was asleep and wake up during the process. I never really stopped it because, well, by that point it was half done...and sometimes I was into it. It was never violent or painful, otherwise I would have stopped it. But it left me feeling all weird, like "what the F is that all about". When I discussed it with my h, he would claim he would have NO recollection of it whatsoever, and he seemed VERY sincere about this, and I believed him. Sometimes if I woke up, I would just push him away. And I really didn't think much more about it, but the combo of my h being mean this past few years and the night wakings prompted me to sleep downstairs beginning in July '03. I tried to return to the bedroom 2x's and 2x's my h woke me up and told me to "get the f out of HIS bed". The second time, I left with no intention of ever returning.

Then late last fall, I was reading on this very board a post from a woman with a similar situation. One of the board leaders, and several others, called this "rape". And I was stunned. They said this was not an unfamiliar behavior for abusive men. This other poster's spouse also claimed to have no recollection about this. I asked a close friend if her h ever did this to her...she said "no! absolutely not!" I asked her if this was "rape" and she said "yes".


Me? I don't know what to think sometimes. Its very shattering to one's pscyhe to think that one's spouse is raping them. I honestly believed him when he said he was sleeping. I have posted this question on this board before...about 10 women responded saying their h's did the same or something similiar, but its still so difficult for me to process.

So, is it possible that abusive men have a sleeping disorder that allow them to have sex in their sleep without memory, kind of like sleep walking.....or is that just an excuse? My h goes to Church every week, without fail. He's in the past told me that I don't believe in God or that because of my delving into Eastern philosophies that "I'm in deep s&^t with God"...but yet, is he capable of this?

A few weeks ago, I asked him point blank, in one of the FEW times we have discussed this, if he has EVER had sex with his daughters (for the record, NO, I do not BELIEVE he has ever touched our dd's--but it was a way of 'admitting' to this behavior). I know this seems like a bizarre question (and no I don't believe he's ever touched our dd's)...but the reason why I asked is that he claimed to have NO CONTROL over himself. He was mortified by the question and asked me if I was crazy. I said "no, but if you claim to have NO CONTROL over yourself at night and randomly have sex with the body next to you....aren't you afraid that one time it might be with one of the girls" (the little ones frequently jump into bed in the middle of the night).

Again, he was aghast at my questioning and said "God, NO!" I said "well what was different about me, then"...and he said "well, you're my wife". I just turned and walked away.

What am I to think about this? I dunno. If anyone who may be reading this has any thoughts, I'm more than open to them. Maybe its rape...maybe its not. I really just don't know anymore and its very, very difficult to accept and process, esp. since he is being Mr. Nice Guy (and no, I'm not buying the routine,either).

I'm really embarrassed, too, that I can't seem to be able to tell this on my own. I haven't brought this up to group yet...and I don't know if I can just yet.Part of me really, really wants this NOT to be the way it is....part of me is already looking for SOME excuse, ANY excuse to explain this behavior. Someone help me deal with this.....

Master dharma

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-10-2004
Tue, 05-18-2004 - 12:48pm
Dharma,

Wendell use to do that to me, just start doing what he wanted while I was sound asleep. The first time it happened I was shocked, but let it go on. Well, after so many times, I finally had to be very adamant about it. Of course, there were the waking times when he got in the mood. Come seek me out and would tell me he had something that needed to be taken care of. It finally got to a point that I just went along with it. It never lasted more than a couple of minutes anyway and would keep him in a fair mood for a few days. I look back on this and still have a hard time believing that I had allowed my body to be used for his satisfaction...gee old Wendell had it made. After being out for six months, I am still amazed of what I put up with and wonder why. Well, I know why, I just didn't know any different. Thought I was suppose to do those things. Never mind that there was no plain old nonsex cuddling or quick affectionate kisses during the off times. There was no chatting about life or problems or funny things. In fact our conversations were only what he thought of about the kids. I remember asking him one time years ago when we went out to eat if we could talk about something else but the kids. He just looked at me like I was nuts. I also remember asking him if we could start doing something together, because if we didn't we won't know what to do when the kids leave. He just looked at me and said "Oh, not right now, there's plenty of time for that later." I was just something for him to use to satisfy his needs.

So, don't think too deeply on it. They are there for theirselves only. He was not thinking of you at all, only what he needed at the time and guess who was there to take care of it? It's kind of sad really, they will never have the joy of making someone else truly happy. In their minds, we aren't there to share their lives, just there to make sure they are satisfied. That's part of the abuser portfolio. If he is considerate in other parts of your life, why would the bedroom be any different?

Hugs,

Terry

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 05-18-2004 - 1:05pm
I don't for one second believe that your H is asleep when he does this. My STBX would wake me up in the middle of the night just like that. To me, this is so selfish and inconsiderate, I mean, to wake up your wife from a sound sleep in the middle of the night. I honestly don't think 'normal' men would take advantage of his wife in such a way. I think it's about control. The idea that they can wake you up, use you for their satisfaction, anytime they are good and ready.

Hugs,

Jackie

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Tue, 05-18-2004 - 1:15pm

IMO -


1) I think you have your answer in that he knew damn well what he was doing because he knew it was you and not one of the girls.

CL-Blueliner4

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Tue, 05-18-2004 - 3:01pm
this post really got to me because dh did rape me. his "excuse" was of course i misunderstood it, i would never do that. i said how could you be that close to your wife and not see the tears coming out of her eyes? i have confronted him a couple of times and each time he denies it and always pointed the "blame" on me. now each and every time i have sex it takes me back to the day he raped me because when i tried to say no here look what you did to me, KNOWING my past he used it against me....i just recently for the first time ever said NO...i DONT want sex!!!

the part where you said about going to church every week is dh is way and he takes the boys and he teaches sunday school and he's nice and charming

Avatar for buffphone
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 05-19-2004 - 9:19am
Hugs dharma. This is one of those areas that to me, it's like walking on quicksand. I too have woken up and found myself fully involved sexually. It was not with my abuser so like you at times, it was a nice way to wake up. It does happen, but even though the partner I was with at the time claimed to be asleep when it started, I'm not sure. And with this partner, it was not a concern.

As with what your husband is doing to you is rape when you are not in agreement with what is going on. It's also a way to keep you tired, confused and emotionally crushed.

But here is my take on why abusers do this and it is from being out so long that I can go back, open up some painful memories and look at them more objectively. Once understanding the dynamics of abuse better it came to me, what would be the most devestating thing someone else could do to me? It would be what happened, to be abused in the one area where we are suppose to be the most intimate, which my abuser did to me.

What should be the most intense sharing moments between two people, the abuser will take us to the brink and then totally humiliate us. I know with my abuser, they would show that they were totally into making love, totally into the feeling of two become one, and then just before orgasm would do a total 180 and verbally cut me to shreds.

It is what they do, they bring us up, which confuses us as we think they may be changing, and then smash us hard into the deepest depression they can. They totally humiliate us at our most vunerable moment. This tactic is also very successful because they know this is one area we are most reluctant to share with a friend or counselor. It's being abused at our very core of being.

When an abuser abuses a child we become outraged and are more apt to take appropriate action. When an abuser abuses us at the time we are most vunerable, most open emotionally, they crush our self-worth, our self-esteem and our own humanity. For when we are stripped of our sexuality, our self-worth and esteem, we have little left to fight with. This is what they do because it probably shows our greatest pain and humiliation, and it shows how much power and control they have over us. Not to mention it shows how little resistance we have left to fight with.

I hope this makes sense to you and all who read it.

And just to share something very persoanal but it seems to pop up on these boards very often and very often along the line of this conversation, but I have to say, glad you can't see how red I'm turning!LOL, but between the early hours of 3 and 5am, men will usually have very intense erections. I don't know if it's from a filling bladder or dreams or what, but it's happened everyday in my adult life, still does.

Now the huge difference is what the man wishes to do with this function, abusers find it being a handy excuse to disrupt their victims sleep, most either go to the bathroom or just rollover and go back to sleep. But it is something that most men get every morning.

While in relationships which were not abusive, and those mornings on weekends when no one had to get up for work, it was requested that should I wish to let my partner know in a nice way, that it was a fun time to "take care of the problem". Major point there, it was asked that I disrupt their sleeptime.

Ok,,,now that I have embarrassed myself, I do hope that I have answered the question that, was going to say "pop up", but is posted here often.

I think again, this just shows how much abuse is a choice. It is the abusers choice to wake and disrupt anothers sleep on a regular basis to reinforce and to keep exhausted their victim.

Hugs

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
Wed, 05-19-2004 - 10:17am
To all who have responded....thank you very much for the validation.

Buff~wow! you nailed it, the thoughts I couldn't express you have. First, I completely understand about the "morning" situation...and trust me, back in the 'good' days, I took FULL advantage of the situation! LOL. But see, that was/is the confusing thing...our sex life was relatively 'good'...that is, until he became meaner, but even when he was, it was still frequent. He always chalked it up to (and I don't know if it makes any sense...) that the more good sex we had, the more it was on his mind...and he theorized that if it was on his mind during the day that he was probably dreaming about it at night and therefore almost reacting to his dreams. I mean, on one hand, it SEEMS plausible...does it not????? And it always seemed to occur within an hour or two after he fell asleep....so maybe he was in that realm of deep sleep, kind of like sleep walking. But still...there are many things that don't sit right. And like I asked him...how can he be sure, IF he is out of control like that, that he just doesn't do this with the kids...and he said it all when he said "you're my wife"....that to me, admits SOME culpability.

Its such a confusing area for me....like you said, its not like you can turn to your friends and ask them. I did NOT have any brothers growing up and my parents were divorced...so I can't even fathom IF this falls into male behavior that I just don't understand. But I just can't turn to the few men I know that I could ask, and ask them this because it IS embarrassing. And its just so hard to accept.

thank you all for your words!!

dharma

Avatar for buffphone
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 05-19-2004 - 4:40pm
Hugs dharma! I'm glad it put into words what you were thinking.

There is one thing that we all have to remember, abusers do not start off a relationship showing their abusive sides. If they did, we wouldn't be here! Sex is a very powerful weapon of abusers, and to me, the abusers I had in my life, sex didn't get much better for the first months of a relationship. It only turned after maybe a year or so and then the abuser started showing their true side. They take their time in pulling us into their control, so slow and innocently that we more times than not, ever see it coming.

Even Pat Benetar sang "don't use sex as a weapon", it's just hard for us at times to try and grasp to what levels abusers go to hold control over us.

Hugs