Planning to leave

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Planning to leave
10
Sun, 10-31-2004 - 9:45pm
Hi, there. I've been posting over on the Problem Solving board and I basically have learned that my husband is abusive and that I should post here, too. I don't want to retype everything, but the skinny is basically this:

I don't get hit. I've been pushed, pulled, tackled, screamed at, etc. I've had my hair pulled out. I've been held in a bear hug so I couldn't leave. I've had the door slammed in front of me so I couldn't leave. I've been called B*, C*, psycho ... All of it when written in one breath is clearly abuse, but because it was fairly spread out and we’d go through long stints of nothing *really* bad, I basically considered them abusive spurts – but I didn’t consider him an abuser. In time, I’ve realized that he believes my threats about calling the cops so he curtailed the physical stuff. He’s steered clear of that for a bit more than a year. But he’s always been controlling, and I guess I never realized how abusive controlling behavior is. I finally understand that all of it is entwined. He might be “controlling” himself by not physically assaulting, but everything he does seems to be directed at controlling my every move.

It’s weird because I’m so strong, I don’t let him get away with a lot of it. He tells me I’m not allowed to do something, I say that’s ridiculous and I do it anyway. And a lot of times, there’s no raging afterwards, no outbursts. It’s over. But the FIGHTING along the way is so tiring. I’m so sick of it. And it’s so unnecessary. I’ve begged him to go to counseling. He says he made contact recently, but because he doesn’t see anything he does as abuse, I’m not very hopeful. I feel bad because we’ve been through so much – his kidney transplant, his mom’s cancer treatment and death, his grandfather’s death this month – and we just got married 18 months ago. I really didn’t want to marry someone I’d end up divorcing. I really hate the idea of divorce. But I hate the idea of staying more than that because someday I want kids, and I can’t stand the thought of him calling Mommy a nasty b* whenever the mood strikes him.

He’s a study in contrasts: He’s so fun and outgoing and happy-go-lucky one minute, then he’s moody and glum the next. One scenario I described in a post on the other board goes as follows:

The other day we were getting along great. I had run some errands and, thinking I'd be leaving next, I parked badly in the driveway, inadvertently blocking him in. It ended up he needed to leave, so he said goodbye, walked outside, and then opened the door and screamed at me to move my f'ing car. I told him I wouldn't respond to that kind of request. A few back and forths later, he called me a b- from the driveway and drove over the lawn to leave.

When I try to talk to him about how these things need to change, he glosses over them and starts in on me not being nice enough lately, how I’m not perfect either and if I’d work harder, he would too. The more reading I’m doing, the more he seems to fit the mold of an abuser – just sans the black eyes.

Sooo, I’m considering leaving. Posters on the other board told me to get my ducks in a row – gather all of our financial information, make copies of income documents, etc. We’ve been married less than two years, so I’m not that worried about the financial hoopla, though I’m sure I should be. I don’t want alimony, that’s for sure, and we luckily don’t have kids, so that’s not a problem. But I do need to learn what it’ll mean to be properly bought out of our new house (we’ve owned it a year). We’d put down a good $30K in a down payment, so I’m sure I’m supposed to get some of that back, right?

Also, I’m thinking I want to buy my own house if/when I go. How difficult will that be when I’m coming out of this situation? I make a respectable salary. Not hefty by any means, but I think it’s enough to get a decent house in a safe neighborhood. I have about $15K in student loans outstanding and HE just bought my new car. I can afford the monthly payments easily but if he were to put up a fight, it might get hinky. Fine. I can buy my own car then. Other than that, I don’t have any debt. We’re in the clear on credit cards. We just spent a ton on a new kitchen so I wonder how that will affect things.

I know it shouldn’t matter, so no need to lecture, but I do feel badly that by leaving him, I’ll be taking away his health insurance. He can’t live without it because he would have enormous medical bills. He’s self-employed, so I’m his meal ticket there. But, of course, that’s not really my problem. It might mean that he ends up selling the house, I guess, if he finds he can’t afford it when he has to deal with that monthly payment.

I know I’ll have to chat with a lawyer when the time gets near. I’m not quite there yet, but I feel it’s coming soon. Is there anything I’m overlooking? Anything I should do that I wouldn’t know to think of? I want to be prepared. I don’t want to get screwed financially as well as emotionally.

Thanks!

A

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2003
Mon, 11-01-2004 - 9:47am
Hi Amber, it's great to see you over here! I read your post back to me on the PSFC board too. You are very strong and clear minded. I must tell you that I admire your ability to stand back and see the diversion and reflection tactics he used for what they are. So many of us, me included, didn't see it. Maybe because we had been conditioned for a longer period of time, maybe because we had more 'invested' (ie; children) I don't know.

Everyone finds out sooner or later that the thing that works the best with these guys is NO CONTACT. Obviously, you can't insitute no contact while you are still living together so your version would look more like this: Polite answers to basic questions. Stick with topics you'd discuss with a store clerk or a stranger at the bus stop. No point in trying to discuss your feelings, they are of no relevence to him anyway. I think you've made your position, in terms of his need for abuse counseling, abundantly clear to him already. If I was you I'd expect a bit of honeymooning or threatening but, I would not expect him to attend any abuse counseling. You already see that in any discussion that would require him to take ersponsibility for the problem, he turns it around and tries to put the blame back on you. I remember trying to talk to stbx and walking away thinking he expects me to be absolutely flawless before he starts to put in a bit of effort. But the closer to his version of perfect I came, the higher the bar would go. It was set up so I'd always be wrong and he'd always have the excuse not to try. Don't bother trying to engage him in conversations about abuse or his part in it because IT WILL BACKFIRE on you and frankly, he won't admit to seeing it anyway because, like you said in your other post, he doesn't want to.

Your comment about how he has chosen to curtail the physical just proves that the abuse *IS* a choice. Pick up a copy of that book I mentioned by Lundy Bancroft, "Why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men". I'm sure others here will back me up when I tell you that book is invaluable.

Keep posting. Cl-2nd life over on the other board is fabulous at reading a situation and hitting the nail on the head. I've seen it time and time, again. She's been were you are too, that's how she can see it so clearly. Everyone over here has been exactly were you are and some are still there so we understand your situation without all the lengthy explainations. As you saw with some of the responses on the other board, there are a lot of people that just won't get it and may give you very bad advice. That's why it's so important to deal with counselors, lawyers, etc, who know the dynamics and have some training/experience in surviving abuse. You are welcome to post here anytime.

I would not put off the consult with the lawyer. You don't have to act immediately but, you really do need to know your rights and the issues even if it's just to know what to take copies of. If your H senses you are making exit plans, things could go south very rapidly. You already don't have access to your online banking so be prepared to get cleaned out. Most of us here never thought our H's were capable of half of the stunts they pulled but as part of the abuser's sense of entitlement, in their minds - "All is fair in love and war" and us leaving them is 'war', make no mistake.

There's a part of me that envies you seeing this before you have kids. I wish I'd known then what I know now. The *ONLY* redeeming part of those terrible years are my 3 wonderful sons. Even so, I wonder what it might have been like to have gone through the pregnancy and childbirth, babyville and toddlerdom with a supportive, helpful, kind, loving, caring man. My boys are 7, 8 & 10 and I have a guy like that now. I have the family I always dreamed of, "Plan A++"! You deserve it too.

Keep looking up^, Susan.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2003
Fri, 11-05-2004 - 3:39pm

Hi!

Photobucket

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-05-2004 - 4:15pm
"if he's terrible with credit cards, you'll end up getting nailed along with him"

That is true. If there is any chance of it, you should try to run a credit check on both your spouse and yourself. If you can't get his signature, you can still run yours. Sometimes this will reveal nasty surprises that are best discovered early.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2003
Fri, 11-05-2004 - 5:19pm

Oh, heck!

Photobucket

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2003
Fri, 11-05-2004 - 6:53pm
Here are links for Amber's posts on the Problem Solving for Couples Board (first attempt at this link thing, I hope I do it right)


http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=8452.1&ctx=128

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=8484.1

Amber, I post these here because I want to introduce you and your story to all my friends here. This board and the women (and a man or two)have been a God-send to me. I also post these here because I want you to be offered the support and advice best fitting your individual situation.

You are incredibly strong to be handling this whole 'awakening' as well as you are. I'm very pleased that you are building a support system. It's crucial as you go through this that you have kindred souls come along side you who will build you up, let you vent and sometimes tell you the things that you need to, but dont want to, hear. I know from what you've posted so far that you'll be an insiration to others who are struggling as you are too.

We have all been exactly where you are. You do not have to convince us that you are not making it up, exagerating, or going crazy. We "get it" in ways that those fortunate enough to have been insolated from abuse, can not.

So, again, I'm glad to see you over here. Please stay and keep posting and reading.

Keep looking up^, Susan.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-05-2004 - 8:46pm
Thanks, all. I'll paste the link I'd just posted today over on the Problem Solving board; I was told you all would be able to give better advice. So please, lay it on me!

As for money, my husband has anything but bad credit. I don't want to say he'd *never* sabatoge that for my sake, but I'd be incredibly surprised. He's anal about it. We carry NO balances. We've never paid a late fee. Etc. And I know the details of both of our credit reports because we just went through the house-buying process last October. His credit is stellar. In fact, when we bought my new car last week, he got pre-approved for a $50K loan at a really low interest rate. He's got no credit issues; mine is still recovering from my college days, but I'm definitely in decent shape comparatively.

I got a little time to make a few copies tonight, after all. I didn't have time to dig up the most important -- our house paperwork -- but I think I'll be able to do that tomorrow.

I feel funny. I'm sneaking around like I'm afraid he's going to find out and attack me. I absolutely recognize what he's done as abuse, but I'm also not afraid of him that way. He's not this beer-guzzling, tank top-wearing pig (my version of the abuser stereotype, I guess). This morning he kept trying to make me laugh by jumping up and down like a dork. It used to work. I used to find it charming. But now, it makes me sick. He asked why I wasn't being playful, and I blurted, "Have you made your therapy appointment yet?" No, he said. "I can't pretend like things are OK when they're not."

Here's my post from earlier. I could use a little reinforcement, I guess -- or feel free to set me straight, if that's what you think I need.

----

I've finally come to the realization that my husband is controlling and often abusive and he probably won't change. We've discussed this, even, and suddenly I do notice some effort on his part. I realize, though, this is probably just a temporary honeymoon phase designed (whether he realizes it or not) to placate me into staying. Eventually, he'll regress -- especially since I still don't think he's made a therapy appointment, as he promised.

My problem is dealing with this honeymoon phase. He'll do something nice, I'll be suspicious and I'll respond cynically. From his perspective, it doesn't seem fair, and I understand why. Eventually his excuse for mistreating me again will be that nothing he does works. (Of course it doesn't! I'm still ticked off from before.) So how do I deal with this? Basically, I've given him an ultimatum saying shape up or ship out, and I'm skeptical he'll pull it off, so I'm refusing to let my guard down and just be lovey and cutesy about things because I know it's a front. I don't know how to deal with that.

Then there's the physical stuff. I'm totally in sync with the other poster who wrote about being disinterested in her husband. That's me entirely. I don't like showing him my body -- not because I'm self-conscious, but because I feel like he objectifies me more than a husband should. Yesterday, he could hear I just got out of the shower so he ran upstairs. When he saw I'd already wrapped a towel around myself, he just walked back downstairs. Is that normal? I feel like there's a disconnect, that I'm just eye candy or something. I'm no beauty queen, of course, but I'm OK and I'm younger than he is and that's always been attractive to him. When I cover myself, he asks me when I became such a prude. He says that if he quit paying that kind of attention to me, I'd freak out and say he wasn't interested in me anymore. I don't know if that's true. As for the sex, we get there -- mostly because I feel it's my duty, frankly -- but there's no emotion in it for me. I've checked out in that regard. If anything, there's a little resentment. But then I worry, what if he's right and I am just getting prudish? I lost interest in sex with my boyfriend before him, too. Is that just how I get after a couple of years? Or has this happened twice because I've truly closed myself off from both of them, knowing they weren't right for me?

Sorry. Lots of questions. I know something has to change, and there's a good chance it'll begin with me leaving. I can't do that yet, though, because I still haven't been home alone to get a chance to photocopy our financial documents. I feel lost in my home. Not a good feeling.

Any input is welcome!

A

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-17-2003
Sat, 11-06-2004 - 12:05am
I'm in the same boat trying to decide whether or not to leave, and I've gotten some great advice and support on this board now and at times in the past.

I've had many ordeals with my husband that's anywhere from name-calling to throwing me out of our house. When i think of the insecurity I suffer knowing he could try to throw me out at any time or blow up and scream over the smallest of things, I think ultimately, my freedom means more to me than that.

Sounds like you have a nice house, so make him buy you out. Whatever you do, don't stay for his insurance purposes. Let him go and get his own! Nobody should be spoken to the way you are and having to tip-toe around and think about how to say something before you say it so as not to incite an argument (which is impossible anyways), after awhile gets so tiring!

Much luck to you

Catlover66

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 11-06-2004 - 11:57am
Thanks, Catlover. I'm having a hard time figuring out my situation. I know for sure I'm not happy, but I also don't sound exactly like some of the people on this board. My h has never tried to throw me out. I've threated to leave a whole lot, though, usually during fights in which he's started the name-calling. Sometimes during a fight he'll get so detached and cruel that I'll just sit there and look at him, like "Who ARE you?" But I can't say that I've tiptoed much around him. I have hid shopping bags before so he wouldn't hassle me about spending money, which is definitely tiptoeing. But when he starts in with his attitude, I don't do much to try to avoid the fight. I might have early on, but for the past several years I've had zero patience for that crap.

Like the other day, I went to pick up an adopted dog with a friend of mine. She was getting the dog as a surprise for her husband and needed the pooch to stay at our house while she was at work that night so she could surprise him afterward. We realized on the car ride home that the dog had fleas. I've dealt with fleas before (growing up, I had up to nine cats and 50 birds in my house at a time -- my mom bred the birds) so I told my h not to worry about it, we'd give our dog a flea treatment before we bring the new one in, and we'd treat and bathe this dog ASAP. He FREAKED out, telling me the dog would have to stay outside (it's cold where I live already) and all this. I'm sure he thought I'd smooth things over since my friend could overhear, but I didn't at all. I just said, "What do you want me to do?" and told him he was overreacting. (Fast forward a week, and we still have no fleas, btw.)

That's our typical situation. The assaults are very rare (not excused, mind you, but rare), but this sort of bickering is CONSTANT. It's very controlling and mistrusting. Back on the dog situation, the friend's husband actually didn't like the dog so we're fostering. H agreed to that, but then he called me up and gave me all these RULES the friends were supposed to follow because he was ticked at them. I understand being annoyed, for sure. I'm very disappointed in them for adopting a dog and then ditching it, but he's all happy-go-lucky with them at the same time he barks at me what I should tell them they should be doing. Part of that, too, I realized is that he's jealous of the female friend. I suddenly recognized that every time I start to get close to a female, he begins to berrate her to me and put her down. As such, it's made it too difficult for me to keep these friends and now I have very few.

To try to give you both perspectives, my h would say that I always get my way. He'll put his foot down, I won't stand for it and I'll do what I'm going to do anyway, come hell or high water. His argument would be that I never respect his take on things. Mine would be that I don't believe either partner should put a foot down ever, that maybe they should talk and discuss things, etc. With him, if it's my idea, it's immediately shot down -- whether the topic be dog fostering or house decorating or the way I want to cut my hair. It's a knee-jerk NO from him every time. I know in the past he's dated girls who agreed more to his whims. It could be argued that he likes the strong side of me, or else I wouldn't have been the one he wanted to marry. At the same time, though, I've told him for years that I'm sick of everything being a fight. If I want something in life (like OUR dog, which he objected to at first), I have to fight for it. I've had to do that in my life otherwise because my mother died and my family was ridiculously broken up. I've had no safety net, either financially or emotionally. I've fought for where I am in my career. I'm a good fighter. But I'm tired of fighting at home.

OK. Done with my ranting. I know I belong on this board because of the abuse elements, and I'm reading "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy, as one poster recommended. But I also feel out of place at both this board and the Problem Solving board because I feel like I'm somewhere in between on most days. Maybe that's just denial setting in. Not sure.

Thanks again for the ear.

A

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-2001
Sun, 11-07-2004 - 12:06pm

Sounds like you've realized he's more controlling than you'd thought, huh? He has a pattern of behavior that keeps you limiting friends and makes friendships too hard to have. He has a pattern of control in that he used to make orders and demands on girlfriends, who did as he demanded. It was good that your girlfriend heard his ranting, since you'd just told her how things really were at home, she got a good example firsthand. I think I'm a lot like you, I never did what my ex demanded of me either, even when I honestly believed I was going to receive physical punishment for it. He'd come home in a drunken rage, incredibly threatening, and at some point face red, veins bulging, point to the couch screaming "SIT DOWN", I, even though may have been in the act of sitting as it was would catch myself "mid-sit" and rise back to standing postition. Even though I was headed to a sit, even though I wanted to sit, no way was I going to sit when someone demanded that I do. Even though that little voice in my head said, "just do what he wants and he'll calm down". No way could I make myself comply with the demands. No way. Always felt like I made some of my own trouble in that respect, but I can't say I'd be any different today -- except today I'd say "f-- you" and head out the door, never to return.




I think the confusion you feel is pretty normal, Amber. I think most feel their problems aren't "bad enough" to be abuse. Everyone reads stories that are worse than theirs and especially in the beginning, I think everyone wonders if their's really qualifies, especially when they first begin to consider their situation as abusive. The fact that abuse does go in cycles, there are good times in the relationship lead to confusion and give you reason to question whether it really is abuse or is "that bad". I think in our minds we see abuse as some torture chamber hell that is faced every day, but I don't think that's close to reality. Good times can last days, weeks and months, but it never goes away, it's always back sooner or later.


~ cl-2nd_life

cl-2nd_
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 11-07-2004 - 1:37pm
Thanks, 2nd_life. I think the hardest part is knowing that if you dissect what he does and take it instance-by-instance, it wouldn't look like abuse or even mistreatment to most people. If/when I complain about something to a friend, she usually says she knows what I mean, she has the same problem in her relationship, and then she tells me the best way to fix it. She means well, but she doesn't see that it's not just that ONE problem I'm dealing with; that's just one symptom. Like the other day I said something about my husband getting upset with me when I don't say goodbye to his family when we're over there. They live five minutes away, I see them all the time, and they really don't care if I make a big deal about saying goodbye. My husband's the only one who cares, so when he complains, I get ticked off because it feels like he's even controlling how I say goodbye to people. But my friend said that I should just say goodbye the way he wants because it's important to him and that's what being a couple is about, doing things for each other.

I just smiled the kind of smile you give to your dentist after he squirted you in the eye with the water pick.

Then today, he compained because when I pulled his clothes out of the dryer, I didn't fold them. I asked why he was getting so upset; I had just put a basket of clothes away that he hadn't folded, either. He said he folds my clothes most of the time, that's the one time he didn't. Of course that's BS. But it seems like such a stupid conversation to begin with that it's hard to point at it and say, "See! Abuse!" But I know it's not normal for him to b* about every little thing. And if this IS what marriage is supposed to be like (which I don't really think is the case), I don't want any part of it.

I'm getting sad about leaving my house and our history, but I know it's coming soon. He's going out of town tonight through Tuesday for work and I plan to use some of my alone time to get things in order and check out some houses for rent (I realized buying just isn't realistic until things get straightened out). It'll give me time to tear the house apart to find our mortgage papers; I couldn't find them anywhere yesterday.

I'm off. Gotta get ready for work. Thanks again for the feedback. :-)

A