Emotional "Abuse" but I'm Staying!!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004
Emotional "Abuse" but I'm Staying!!!!
25
Mon, 11-08-2004 - 5:47pm

I really dont know if you can classify me in an emotional abusive marraige, but I'll let you decide that. I just dont trully feel "abused".... emotionally drained sometimes, yes, but abused, no. Tell me if I'm wrong bc a cl on another seems to think I'm repeating patterns of getting in "these relationships" and I am allowing my DH to treat me badly etc. I dont know.


It was a whirlwind courtship. We are 24 and 25, been together 2 years and married for almost 1 year. DH began to demonstrate some serious anger "mis"mangament after one year and I kicked him into counseling and anger management. He, off course, has confronted, admitted, and is addressing this issue full force and with dedication... but I still suffer 1-2x every

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003

Hi Sara, welcome -


Don't know who the other CL is, but I have to agree with her.

CL-Blueliner4

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-24-2004
He sounds abusive to me from what you have written. Abusers are not all bad, they do have their good points, there are good times and quiet times of routine. You should read the Verbally Abusive Relationship. That way when he says certain things, you will know exactly what he is doing and it will hopefully help you not to take it to heart so much and help know what to say in reply.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
I just finished the Bancroft book (Why Does He Do That, recommended to you by the cl), and from that, I can definitely tell you that Dr. Bancroft would say your H is abusive. Absolutely.

I don't feel qualified in offering advice since it sounds like your H and my H are clones of each other -- they'd be great bowling buddies, it sounds -- and I am still here. But I can tell you that it gets old really quickly. Your H has gone to counseling, and that's great. But he hasn't changed, has he? He might curtail some behaviors, but it's because he's fighting to control himself, not because he's getting inherently better, right? How long do you think it'll be before he finally believes himself when he says you "want" to get hit.

You, meanwhile, sound a lot like me. I don't put up with a lot of the crap my H dishes. For a while, I thought that was enough. But it's not. Life with him is a constant battle. Aren't you feeling that way too? Don't you wish you didn't have to worry about him exploding at you IN FRONT OF YOUR MOTHER? That's HORRIBLE. A reasonable H who honestly couldn't remember the dress discussion would have WAITED to DISCUSS IT RATIONALLY when you two got home. Period. There's no excuse for his behavior. And talking to you like you're a 4-year-old is not OK. You're not 4. You're half of the marriage. You're an equal partner. How can he think you're equal when he feels so superior over you, he talks down to you?

This behavior -- this abuse -- isn't about anger management at all. Anger management is about controlling your temper. This abuse is very controlled -- or else he would've hit you when he said you had it coming, right? What was stopping him? He has his own limitations set on how to behave based either on HIS perception of what crosses the line into abusive or on YOUR imaginary line in the sand. As for the former, his perception is already warped. His treatment of you is abusive and it's abhorrent. As for your line in the sand, he'll keep pushing that one. He hasn't touched you yet, but one day he could push or shake or put you in a bear hug to keep you from walking out the door. Then he'll say if you hadn't done such-and-such, he wouldn't have been driven to do that ... Etc. and so forth.

You're in a tricky situation, though, because you want desperately to stay. You're hoping the counseling will eventually do the trick, but you actually need him in an abuse program. And that will be tough because he won't see what he's doing is abuse. My H is the same way. Even though he has crossed the line and been physical in the past, he wouldn't call even that abuse -- so imagine how tough it is to get him to recognize that calling me a B* and using that condescending tone is abuse! On top of that, an abuse program lasts for months and months. It's not your typical quick-hit counseling run. The abuse counseling has to break down your H's sense of entitlement -- why does he feel the RIGHT to treat you that way? -- and get him to empathize with how he's making you feel. That's no easy feat.

I'm a little worried for you. Your discussion title is like a declaration: Emotional "abuse" but I'm staying! I applaud your dedication and determination, but you do realize that his behavior isn't your fault, right? And you know that there's nothing you can do to change him. It won't be YOUR failure in the marriage if he doesn't do his part to get healthy and treat you properly. He needs to do that on his own. If you stay and he hasn't changed -- REALLY changed, deep down at his core -- imagine what your children are going to live like. Imagine them hearing you two fighting and hearing daddy tell mommy that she's stupid and she's asking to get hit. What do you think that will teach them? What kind of kids do you think you'll raise? They could end up great people, which is wonderful, but they'll be bruised inside. Do you want that?

I've been with my H longer than you have, but I'm just 26 and we don't have kids yet. You and I are in similar boats. My advantage (if you can call it that) is that I've been screaming for him to go see a therapist for basically six years and I'm finally realizing that all the external excuses I'd allowed him aren't real. He's not nasty because he's stressed. He's just nasty. Period. If anything, he's stressed because he's nasty.

I wish you well. The bottom line is, YOU need to recognize his behavior for what it is, and then insist that he does. If you don't, he never will, and you're guaranteed nothing will ever change then.

Best of luck,

A

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004

this sucks. honestly. i hate it.


what do you think is worse? not recognizing the abuse... or being fully aware of it?


DH and I talked again last night. . He displayed soooo many more classic textbook abuse signs in his message to me. I wanted only to bring him to awareness that I am concerned and fearful of our future bc things didnt seem to be changing... they are IMPROVING, but not steadily changing. He still reacts so quickly out of anger, has outbursts and goes into rage over the littlest thing and then justifies it by saying im sensitive, or i "overtalk" things out or he'll try and deny his wrongdoing by saying that i was yelling too which is "why" he raised his voice louder to speak over me, or simply just that "Sara, you were yelling too so dont blame this on me" even though i wasnt yelling... and if i try and say that i wasnt, he goes bazurk bc im not taking responsibility in my share of the problem.


Sunday he went into a tantrum/outburst bc i was stressed and overworked since his surgery. i was trying to explain to him why i felt used and unappreciated bc saturday he guilted me into sex after making me feel bad for over an hour, then demanded i get him to his freinds house by such and such time so he doesnt miss any parts of the football game IGNORING the fact that i had a MILLION things to do around the house, shopping and errands and chores and he KNEW that while he was begging me for sex, i felt horrible bc there i was doing EVERYTHING but he wasnt happy unless i did EVERYTHING AND gave him sex when he wanted and got him to see his football game precisiley on time when he wanted. so my feelings were "what about me? im running around doing everything in this house and satisfying you at the same time but youre STILL going to get pissed bc you might miss 15 minutes of a college football game??" so i was trying to explain that was the reason for my glummy moodiness on sunday and instead of listening to me he erupted in anger and screamed at me, i said CALMLY "Andy, im not going to talk to you if you're going to yell. please stop yelling" so he said, fine, and I continued for about 3 seconds and he erupted again screaming at me "godamnnit this... im tired of hearing that... im not going to sit here and let you berate me...!!!!!!" so i said "fine... youre acting like a jerk" and walked away from him, went for a drive [like our therapist said. when i came back he got up and limped over to me on his crutches and said he was sorry and he felt bad and he didnt mean to yell at me, he understand why i was upset and he didnt mean to make me feel used and unappreciated. i apologized too and we hugged, made up, everything was great again.


what is my concern:


that this will just keep happening over and over and over again like it has in the past. Sure, this time he didnt yell "as bad" as he had in the past or threaten me or punch his fists. this is true. he's getting better about that. sure, this time he confronted it almost immediately and we made up and our communication was better. But he STILL reacts in anger, yells, screams, interrupts, gets hyper and frustrated and instead of listening ASSUMES he's just being "attacked", rolls his eyes, ignores me or gives me silent treatment.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003

You won't get him to admit it.

CL-Blueliner4

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004

DH does not display his anger anywhere outside of home. there have been times he's gotten impatient with freinds while theyre helping him work on the boat or whatever, but he's never gotten into arguments, yelled or showed anger towards anyone but me. . he and all his freinds even testified that he's never yelled or become this angry with any of his ex girlfreinds and reason being that he just never cared... if they pissed him off or did something wrong he just walked away or broke up with them and they usually came running and crying with "please dont leave me" or whatever. if his exgf's confronted him with a problem, he'd give them the silent treatment, roll his eyes or walk away saying "thats your problem" and be done with it. With me, it seems to me that -based on what HE has said and what we've discussed in counseling- is that he has more at stake wtih me, has stronger feelings, more to lose or whatever so when i confront him on an issue and approach about a problem he feels threatened, therefore bursts out in anger, frustration or whatever.


regardless.. that has become such a pattern that he feels now its okay and comfortable to burst out or into rage over stupid dumb things even when he isnt "threatened". but ONLY with me.


he has WONDERFUL and perfect relationships with poeple at his work place, his freinds and his family and our neighbors. but he WILL come to me and tell me how stupid or dumb everyone is for whichever reason is against him, his opinions, ways of doing things bla bla bla.


but it remains and makes me feel horrible that i am the ONLY person he behaves this way around and towards.


i think he is *willing* to change and make the effort, but accepting his responsibility of his behavior WITHOUT excuses or blaming me or making ME say i have a problem too... will be the hardest part.


i know that i do things to trigger his outbursts... but it doesnt make it right. I know that i am an ubersensitive person, but that doesnt merit his yelling. i know that i am bullheaded and come off kind of snotty at times, but i dont think that makes us "equal" when he berates me or gives him reason to saying that i am 1/2 responsible for the outcome of that argument bc i "sounded snooty".


how do i tell him that i admit to my problems and promise to work on them without sounding as though i am ACCEPTING his behavior or giving him a break or merit for his yelling and rage and anger bc i just said i had problems too.


i think thats the only way to get him to admit and open up and adress this, bc like i said- i know he'd be willing to work on it, put in effort and try and change... but its the getting him to ADMIT his behaviors are soley based on HIM, and not a cause of "my problems" or sensitivities.


so if i admit i have problems too and am willing to work on those individually... i dont want him thinking that i just admitted i am partly to blame for his actions. know what i mean?


ugh.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003

"if they pissed him off or did something wrong he just walked away or broke up with them and they usually came running and crying with "please dont leave me" or whatever. if his exgf's confronted him with a problem, he'd give them the silent treatment, roll his eyes or walk away saying "thats your problem" and be done with it."


This is all abuse, too, just not as overt as it is with you.

CL-Blueliner4

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004

I've told a lot of people over the last year that Mother Teresa wouldn't be perfect enough for these guys.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003

Deadlines and ultimatums have been issued before by folks coming through here, and they don't work.

CL-Blueliner4

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-17-2003
Sara,

I'm so happy you are working things out in your marriage. I believe people can change if they really want to, and it sounds like your husband is really trying.

As to your question is it abuse? yes, from what I read of your posts it is (or was) abuse. I am telling you that because your story is exactly like mine and your husbands outbursts were exactly like my husband's. The rage over very small, almost non existent, issues, the twisting things around, getting mad at something he thinks you do, which it is actually HIM doing it. But I really hope that he gets past it and you can live a long happy life together.

Mine didn't turn out so great, although I was patient, I just can't be in another verbally abusive marriage. But I wish you all the best and good for you being patient. just remember, you do not deserve to be treated that way.

catlover66

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