Getting most out of Counselling? LONG!
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| Wed, 05-31-2006 - 2:12pm |
Verbally and emotionally abusive spouse, been going on for years, I have HAD it. Got back into counselling -- this is 3rd week. Very limited service available, only 20 sessions/year (when I have enuf material for 2x/week for next coupla years LOL), so I have to "make hay."
(A.) The problem is, I'm torn between these 2 choices of how to use that time most effectively:
(A-1) Do I focus on ways to deal with him, "get over it" as it were, how to keep my head down and doing damage control? (Which is the direction it's going so far)
OR
(A-2) Do I try to redirect to focus on how to deal with getting out ("now"/later)? With which I am having many problems, read on...
Ideally, I'd like to keep my head down for 2 more years (which is a gad-awfully long wait, and I honestly have my doubts if that's even slightly realistic), then make the move when older son finishes at Elem School which ends after 8th grade. DSs are currently age 9/ending 3rd grade and age 12/ending 6th grade.
(B.) Here's the underlying logic on this "ideal":
(B-1) There's NO decent public HS (HighSchool) in this city/area short of an hour+++ public-bus commute (while our Elem school is one of the *best* in the city-system, the local HS is one of the worst, regularly in the news for problems: drugs, gangs, weapons, even rapes, the list goes on)
(B-2) I want to get property =just= outside the city limit (which is only about 1-mile =maybe= 2, from our current home) so DS's can attend a far better public HS -- there are TWO districts with good schools available thru such a move. With no need to move far at all, there would be less disrupting the kids' lives overmuch. We'd still be close enough for them to easily interact with their Dad on a regular basis which I very much want for them all -- the gist of the problems are between Himself and I, and I feel fairly confident that without the constant tension between us-2, Himself's relationship with kids would be even better.
(B-3) While it would be *nice* to let younger son continue at existing Elem school until he "graduates" (that'd be =another= 3years) then track him over to the better HS as well, I'm pretty sure that it will be better in the long-run if we all move together (the 3 of us are a very tight family unit, so breaking that up with one kid staying with each parent most of the time wouldn't be good for him or any of us). We can get him into whatever Elem School is available in the new district, which should be at least as good as where he is now. I think he'd be fine and we would of course do whatever to faciliate his transition.
(C.) The big problem I am having with making the break NOW -- or even after waiting the 2years, tho that would be less problematic to a degree, as you'll read...
(C-1) MONEY. Money MONEY money MONEY money. Oh, and MONEY.
This is where I'm frequently told I'm an idiot, so see how YOU-guys feel about this -- I can respect your input since you-guys *know* what it can be like and where I am coming from in terms of just wanting to be done and out for my =own= sake, but conflicted about the whole issue of damage-to-the-kids-from-staying-in, Versus damage-to-the-kids-from-having-their-world-trashed-because-*I*-have-a-problem-staying-in...
(C-2) When we go, so goes our standard of living and any financial security. I would be tearing my kids -- who have done no wrong -- out of a lovely-if-modest home in a great neighborhood, right near their school, with a few amenities now.
(C-3) Because it will be all that I can afford on my <$30K salary, we could easily end-up in a cr!ppy 2-BR apartment with absolutely NO money for anything other than paying the bills, right as the kids are entering teen years and will want clothes/various other amenities. I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE my job and I am at the top of the local pay-scale for what I do (I know this because it's the result of a year+ job search when I started current job back in October'05), so there's not much more to be wrung-out by going elsewhere. My boss is a doll and a decent, stand-up guy, so I'll prolly be able to negotiate more hours/slightly higher wage, but even so it's just not gonna cut it entirely.
I realize some of you may be moved to berate me for my focus on "standard of living," but it's a plain and simple fact of life that financial security is important. Our current combined income is about $65K which in our major-metro area is enough to live comfortably if modestly: yes we have cable-tv and internet (package deal with phone service), but I shop at the Salvy (Salvation Army) when I can (and thank g*d for the school district's uniform policy!!!), and we don't go out, almost ever: McDonald's for the kids maybe 3-4x/year (it's a MAJOR treat), I haven't been in a restaurant literally for years except the Red Lobster gift certificate my sister got about a year ago (and we went at lunchtime so as to make it stretch; even so I had to listen to DAYS/weeks of *stuff* from Himself about the $25 over that we spent -- mostly for his beers BTW *sheesh*), and we haven't gone anywhere like a "vacation" in over 5years (and even then it was day-trips, never overnights). I always ask for movie gift certificates at Xmas/birthdays, so we do get to see a kid's movie at the theatre now and then (for me, I wait til it's on cable and I rationalize the $60/yr extra over Basic-cable fees that I pay for HBO). We strapped ourselves, clearing all our bank accounts, to buy his family home (we had to buy-out his siblings) about 18months ago (because back then I was still delusional about "making it right"), so I think that between us we currently have about $2-3K in the bank (plus whatever he may have stashed away from retirement/pension at work, tho I doubt I'll see much of that).
We have enough but not much more, so when I talk about "standard of living," I am NOT talking posh house (currently it's 60+ years old and in need of MANY *major* repairs: roof, plumbing, heating, etc, etc, etc) or vacations (HA) or designer clothes (unless someone gave them to the Thrift Store). I'm talking about things like being able to simply pay the bills, eat properly, and having clothes and a home my kids aren't ashamed of, so that they can confidently align with their peers.
If it were just me to consider, I'd say "the heck with it" and tail-under back to live with my Mom: it's not about my desires or "livin' high on the hog," but about simply having a decent life for my kids that doesn't also include a verbally and emotionally abusive parent in their lives quite so much. Please be clear on this and read on, because you'll discover more about why this is a hot-button for me...
(D.) I realize that I am projecting here:
(D-1) When my folks split-up when I was a kid (2nd grade), we went from a comfy life to cr!p. And by cr!p I mean there were ALWAYS problems with spending on ANYthing, we ate mac-and-cheese made with water instead of milk and butter WAY too much, I went thru Jr High and HS being teased for my Salvy wardrobe (I am exceedingly picky about what I buy now at the Salvy, and thank heavens it's just boy's-play-clothes, not teen-clothes)... I was thoroughly bitter about that and even ashamed a lot of the time. Dispassionately, I know it was a good idea for my parents to be divorced, but that change in my life stunk for me to the point that financial security is one of my major buttons.
(D-2) Do I have the right to ruin my kids' lives in the same way "just" to get my own peace? Which is worse? Living a secure life with enough amenities to make it fairly comfy but with a parent who verbally abuses the other (and the kids see "only" about 25% of that at most), or living in a place you're ashamed to bring your teenaged friends to, wearing Salvy-wear and knowing that this is your life from now on because your Mom made a d!mnably stupid choice in her partner/your father and couldn't hack it? Rock and a hard place.
(E.) If I can figure out how to stand-it and wait the 2 years (not to mention making sure the kids will be OK if I do)...
(E-1) ...it allows at least one of our sons (older) to have a contiguous schooling experience at a school which serves them very well, and then when all of older son's classmates are scattering to go to whatever HS, he also moves onto his own new HS.
(E-2) ...it gives younger-son those 2 additional years to become more socially adept and (hopefully) more able to handle the transition. Not that he's not adept or capable now if need-be, but at his age a few years is a big difference.
(E-3) ...it gives me 2 more years to work on personal finances and save-up a nest-egg to get a more suitable property, cuz we'll likely be there a VERY long time and because it's a far smarter choice in the long-run: My own mom settled on much less, a rental in a not-so-great area, and never got-out/upgraded -- because life goes like that -- 35 years later, when she could have bought a property and had something to show for all those years paying-into living quarters, she has NO equity to carry her into her old age and that very heavy burden falls on us, her kids; I do not want to go that route. I'd far rather get into a 2BR *ownership* situation than a 2BR apartment, if I can find a way to budget it, because at the other end I can sell it and hopefully carry myself up to death rather than forcing my kids to bear that burden.
(E-4) ...it gives 2 more years to pay into our mortgage and get our current property to a better financial standpoint if we have to sell: Right now, we've only been there about 18months and so if we sell now, we payoff the mortgage and there's virtually nothing left. And I am very much hoping to avoid having to sell it since the house is where my husband grew up and I'd feel terrible taking that away from him, and from the kids; it's their heritage too and in future, the equity may allow for college-loans and other needs, as well as financially carrying Himself thru his old age.
(E-5) "But Himself will have to pay child-support, blahblahblah": experience has taught me that I cannot rely on anyone but myself. He doesn't earn much, constantly cries about how he can barely make bills as it is, so while yes he will prolly have to pay-in *something*, it's sure as heck not going to make up for the the loss to our "family" for his 60-70% of the household's income. I have every belief that our standard of living is going to plummet, even with my best efforts and careful planning: there's just no way for me to make up that loss of income.
I often joke that if I could only "just double" my income, I'd be out immediately and we'd do alright... *sigh* If it were just me to consider, same thing.
I have had it with his constant sniping, cutting, insulting, passive-aggressive behavior, much less the outright nastiness, cruelty, and random anger outbursts. I *know* it's not good for the kids to have to see it either -- although he is markedly nicer with them, it still has them seeing bad behaviors on his part, seeing him degrade women and especially their mom, and he does annoy them more and more as they become older and less likely to have it all just "roll past" them.
Older DS has said on occasion that he gets why I talk about getting out; he's a great kid, thoughtful, but eek that he should even have to think about it himself.
Sadly younger DS has begun talking-back to his dad (not me, yet), even so far as yelling "shut up!" at him when he "gets that way." That is *really* conflicting for me to deal with, because I agree with him wholeheartedly, but am very much averse to disrespect of parents, because it may start with "just" dad (who's frankly =earned= a lack of respect) but inevitably it will extrapolate to disrespect of authority in general.
But I also know that they are both still reluctant to consider breaking things up, especially the younger who still has those childhood delusions of happiness...
And of course in spite of all commonsense, I still harbor 2-or-3% of those stupid "wish I could make it right again" fantasies, in spite of rationally knowing that Himself won't change and being so disassociated from him that I don't honestly think it *could* be done even on my part. It's as much about mourning the future I had hoped to give my kids, as anything.
I have, in the last several years, done and tried virtually every single thing imaginable to work on the relationship, to do what I could to "make things right": researching and implementing what I could find via books/the internet, I dragged (and I mean dragged) him into couples counselling something like 7-8 years ago until the counsellor said, "don't bother, he's just saying either what he thinks I want to hear or what makes him look good, so since he can't be honest there's no point" AND I was back in counselling again a few years ago when I was in the "oh g*d make it stop hurting" stage...
All to no real avail, and so I have arrived at a place where I consciously avoid Himself. We live in the same building, but sleep (and usually dine) separately, our interactions are limited to the extent where if we converse more than 20-30min in any week, it'd be a miracle. It's the old "acting normal for the kids," and the kids are about the only place where we have any meeting of the mind or intentions anymore.
We had a big talk back in late Feb-early March about divorcing, which I think shook him a bit since I have always been the one to say "it's not an option, we MAKE this work." But no serious changes on his part since then, so he's obviously not motivated to make things work. Removes any guilt on that front, which is nice: he has clearly made a choice, it's just for me to figure out how I am going to act on it.
And anyway, most of the time it's the kids-and-I as the "family unit" and then there's this grouchy guy who passes thru every so often. Seriously, it's like I am already divorced and a single parent, but I have the significant benefits of relative financial security, a roof over our heads, and someone to share the expenses. The other benefit is that with lessened contact there is less opportunity for him to "go off" so life has become much more placid. But not enough so, he still does -- nor do I care to consider living like this forever.
Didja ever have those EEEEVIL fantasies where you think, "gad it'd be SO much more convenient if he would just get hit by a truck?" Hey, I'll admit it, LOL. It makes me feel *terrible* when I do, but jeez if I've gone from "I want to marry this great guy" to "hit by a truck," it's pretty clear that this story is over.
SOOOO, as you can see, I have put a tremendous amount of thought into the logistics of getting out and surviving financially, but all to no end: it just seems a brick wall. So you can imagine how =frustrated= I am, hence getting back into counselling: I am looking at this round of counselling as the last stop before exiting, so that no-one (including myself) can ever say that I didn't do EVERYTHING possible to make it work first.
But, as I mentioned, so far we seem to be tracking towards conciliatory actions, how to "get by," and I'm wondering if I should push to a more bootcamp/"get out now" mentality and how to deal with that, how to accept the issues and consequences of divorce...
So call me Tolstoy for this epic "(domestic) WAR AND (hopes for) PEACE" post/thread, and bring on those 2cents! and thanks yall! I may mostly just lurk, but I really do value the conversations here for both education and validation.
~PhxAngel
PS yes, I do think in outline form and yes, I do type very fast lolol!

Make sure you are getting counseling from a trained domestic violence professional first. They can address both of your concerns about staying vs leaving and also help you with how to leave safely.
Talk to a lawyer and see what your rights are. Most top notch lawyers will give you an hour's initial consultation with no fee and you may be surprised at what you would be entitled to. And as an added bonus if you divorce even if you don't use that attorney your husband won't be able to as you have already had a consultation ie it would be a conflict of interest for the lawyer.
I'm not sure, but you sound like you want us to convince you to stay. We can't make that decision for you. But those of us who have been there done that and now are out of it will tell you that it's so worth the hard work to get out of there and be free. Your kids already know the deal and you may be surprised at how they respond to not having the "grumpy" guy around to dampen all and any fun that occurs.
That said yes, I have had to file bankruptcy, move home with my mom and grandmother and I ended up with all the marital debt in the end (around $100,000), but I WOULD STILL LEAVE WHEN I DID AND STAY OUT REGARDLESS OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN THRU. Why because I left when I was pregnant so I could get some peace of mind. My grandmother and mom have helped me with my son when he was colicy and they have watched him so I could go out on occasion and be me again. My mom also helped me get the retainer for my divorce and went to court with me every time I had to go. My grandmother helps out by doing the night shift when the baby was colicy so I could sleep and function at work the next day. I am moving forward with the bankrupty and once done and my credit is rebuilt I will assume the mortgage on the house I live in and it will be our permanent forever home. My son has grown up in a loving safe house where people don't yell for no apparent reason. He is well adjusted and spends time with his dad. His father is a great guy to play with and I know he enjoys spending time with him, but where his father would withold affection and have dark moods he doesn't see this or get exposed to it. I have started to be the adult I never had the chance to be while I was married and I love it. I love being able to do things without getting anyone's permission and to get up on a day where my son is with his dad and say you know what I think I'm going to ride my horse all day today is worth every hardship and pain along the way. I date now. Every single guy I have went out with since my ex has been 10 steps above and beyond my ex both financially and emotionally. I make it clear that I would like a boyfriend, but that I'm in no hurry to get married again. I like having my house with my stuff and my son. They can have their own life too along with a life we share together.
Leaving is hard, but I would not change my decision if I had to ever.
Hope that helps you,
Jennifer
Jennifer, THANKS for your note!
>>>>>Make sure you are getting counseling from a trained domestic violence professional first. They can address both of your concerns about staying vs leaving and also help you with how to leave safely.<<<<<
Hmm, I'm just with a "regular" counsellor/therapist. So you're saying that's not enuf and I should get with someone specifically trained? I'm assuming I could get connected with such thru local DV /Women's center; wonder how thatw orks withmy insurance... things to ponder-thanks!
>>>>>Talk to a lawyer and see what your rights are...you may be surprised at what you would be entitled to. And as an added bonus if you divorce even if you don't use that attorney your husband won't be able to as you have already had a consultation ie it would be a conflict of interest for the lawyer.<<<<<
I did that with 2 attys back in Feb but I wasn't impressed with how little they were able to tell me. Guess it's back to the drawing board on that item.
Also, I am confident based on our discussions of divorcing thus far (since after the BIG talk back in Feb/Mar, we've revisted the matter a few times on a more low-key basis), that cutting him off from working with an attorney is not an issue. We are both in firm agreement that we want to determine/prep the divorce as much as we can by ourselves so as to not pay attorneys any more than abolsutely necessary. I have no need for acrimony or suchlike, I want this to be as easy on all of us as possible, and on that we are agreed. All I want is my fair share and whatever the kids are entitled to, not a cent more.
The nice thing is that we are both at the point where ending things has appeal, so that removes a lot of the problems. It's just figuring out teh timing/logistics/details.
>>>>>I'm not sure, but you sound like you want us to convince you to stay.<<<<<
LOL oh lord-a-mercy NO! YIKES, no! If anything, I'd love to have someone *compassionately* help me to work towards dealing with getting out. Most of what I've gotten on that front so far has been couched more in a sense of "you're a bad mother, you're damaging your kids, you're an idiot for so strongly thinking about the finances" and so on. Not very heartening nor motivating.
It's SO weird because while I am getting abused, no question, I don't have a sense of it being some HOT EMERGENCY to get out, OMG pack up, grab the kids and run, AAAHHHH! For all that it truly bites major weenie, it's just not like that between us.
>>>>>it's so worth the hard work to get out of there and be free <<<<<
Oh, I know it will be, I'm just very unhappy with the projections of how life will be post-divorce in financial terms.
>>>>>Your kids already know the deal and you may be surprised at how they respond to not having the "grumpy" guy around to dampen all and any fun that occurs.<<<<<
I know that'll be so much nicer for them. They'll really be able to enjoy their relationship with their dad better without the tension.
>>>>>I have had to file bankruptcy, move home...I ended up with all the marital debt<<<<<
Thank heavens Himself is Mr.Cash-Only, he has NEVER used credit unless it was expedient/necessary(part of why we rarely do much or have much). I'm the same way: if I can't pay cash, by saving/budgeting/whatever, then I do without. We have virtually NO debt whatsoever, and what there is, is clearly his or mine -- I'd say that between the two of us, not counting the BIG DEBT of the mortgage, our combined debt *might* be $4K. The man may be a fool in terms of interpersonal relationships, but he is rock-solid in terms of not having debt.
>>>>>My son has grown up in a loving safe house where people don't yell for no apparent reason. He is well adjusted and spends time with his dad. His father is a great guy to play with and I know he enjoys spending time with him, but where his father would withold affection and have dark moods he doesn't see this or get exposed to it. <<<<<
That's what I'm talking about! There's not a problem between Himself and the kids, it's between he and I, and the issue is that they have to see/hear it. Once that "goes away" after the divorce, I know they will all actually have a far better relationship for it.
>>>>>I have started to be the adult I never had the chance to be while I was married and I love it. I love being able to do things ...I make it clear that I would like a boyfriend, but that I'm in no hurry to get married again. I like having my house with my stuff and my son. They can have their own life too along with a life we share together.<<<<<
I tell you what, at this point that is a strong motivator for me: I have put my personal life on hold, because I can't have one with Himself anymore, but I can't do anything about it until I'm divorced. Frustrating!!! But I'm not planning on dating anytime soon thereafter; I'll enjoy some "me-time/me-and-the-kids-time" first. Eek that's all I'd need, is to have some gnarly rebound relationship.
Thanks again for your input!