I will be away for awhile

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
I will be away for awhile
4
Mon, 12-22-2003 - 12:03pm
I will be away from the board for awhile - taking some vacation time. I'll be back around Jan. 5th. Everyone, have a very happy holidays and take care of each other. I'm not going anywhere. But, I will be devoting some much needed time to my son and my house - oh, and me too. Before I go, I wanted to comment about the men and lies thread...

I just had a very rough weekend with my MM. This is the start of the end and I know it. I am having such a hard time believing that my dream was just that - *my* dream. He fed my dreams because he was insecure and did not put the same value on truth as I did. I wanted to believe all of his stuff. I think he did too - actually, I know he did. It was hard for me to sort out the lies from the truth because I also was married when this A started and managed to get out of my bad marriage. I believed that my MM had the same level of integrity and commitment that I did. I believed that if *I* wasn't lying and *I* cared about being honest and decent - then, he would too. That was such a fatal mistake. He took advantage of my forgiving nature. I can see it now. He banked on me always being there and forgiving all of his lies. I was a willing participant, for sure. A little pathetic - but, willing to believe in fairytales and the 'big picture'.

I don't think my MM feels it is a big deal to not follow through with your words. I think he wants things to happen, verbalizes his wishes, and then thinks it's no big deal if he doesn't follow through. He can't even follow through on a simple promise of a phone call. I truly believe it comes down to a person's integrity and sense of responsibility towards others. I know that I am the one in control of my responses to other's behavior. I have to remember that it is my MM's behavior that is a problem - not something that I do to illicit it. I have a hard time with realizing that he is weak because I wasn't when I left my marriage and I try to think he is the same as me - i.e. that he feels the same way towards me. I believed that he was strong because that's what I wanted to believe. I wanted him to be a man of integrity (white knight syndrome, I guess). He wanted to believe that about himself too... it just wasn't reality. I believe that people can evolve. I just don't know if he ever will.

This has been such a learning experience for me. I look back at the person I was five years ago and I don't even remember her. I am starting to see the truth in people. I am starting to see a man for what he is - not for what I can make him into. I did this fantasy with my marriage - so I know it isn't unique to an affair. As I start to really see my MM, I don't know if I can still be in love with that person. I don't know if I can respect him. And without that, there is no love. I don't believe my MM is malicious in his lies. I don't even think he sees it as lying. Mostly, he lies to himself and there's the real shame.

You know, they say that relationships born out of an affair can never work because it is all based on a lie. I think that's rhetoric. Because, how can a marriage be rebuilt after an affair when a huge chunk of that marriage (in my case) was a big lie? Rebuilding marriages happens all the time, if both people come clean and want that. Affair relationships work too, if both people have the integrity to get out of the bad situation they get themselves into and move forward towards honesty. In affairs, it just usually doesn't happen with both people moving forward at the same time. I think to have a real relationship with someone requires total honesty and integrity. Honesty and integrity are qualities that are earned over time through actions. It is the simple trait of backing your words up with the actions. It is the stuff that knights and fairytales are made of - integrity... back then, your word was all you had. I take my word as very serious stuff. Unfortunately, my MM does not :( I am learning. How can he do this to me? Because my MM is not *me*.

Bird

Avatar for shescomeundone2002
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Mon, 12-22-2003 - 12:18pm
Wow Bird! I really needed to hear that today, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and your pain with us.

My XOM lied and was deceitful. I expected so much more from him, even though this was an A. I told him that I would never have did this to him. I could not even fathom it. I keep reminding myself that this is who he really is, not the man that I made him out to be. It is a very difficult concept to accept. He is a coward, and to hear him admit it does not make it easier to believe. I guess I just accepted more from people in general. The world seems like such a crappy place right now...filled with lies and deceit and people like him.

I am going to devote my energy and my time to my children and to myself also. This Christmas is different for me. I am older, wiser and more grateful for the things I took for granted before. I guess when you have your world shaken the way that I have it makes you grateful for the little things.

Why did XOM do this to me? Because he isn't me. That is my mantra for today.

Enjoy your hiatus from the board...enjoy your son...Happy Holidays Bird.

Jazzdiva

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Mon, 12-22-2003 - 4:11pm
She's,

I'm sorry to hear your XOM was deceitful. I'd love to make a blanket statement and just say that all men involved in affairs are scum...but, I know that's not true. I have been on both sides of the coin (married and single) during this longterm affair. I also have 'met' many wonderful and caring women here that were seeing single men and feel stuck in their marital relationships...I wouldn't call these women flat out liars because they aren't. So, I'm not sure what to think anymore, other than that I think it comes down to a person's personality and integrity. I don't even want to sound as pompous as to think that I have a greater sense of values than my MM (or, anyone else who is stuck in a marriage and feels they can't get out)- but, I do think that I have a greater amount of strength to make my actions match my values. I made a serious mistake in my marriage and I corrected it in the least painful way that I knew how. I told my MM I was leaving and did. I tried to be the best person I could be during my divorce. I never wavered back and forth and screwed with my XH's head in the process. My MM told me he was leaving, did so, and then went back 8 months later - only to promise again that he will be leaving. Is it a lie? Probably not. It could happen, if he got up the courage again to live the life he says he wants. Will it happen? Probably not. Not because it is a lie - but, because he doesn't have the strength to refrain from saying things that he cannot accomplish. I don't know if it makes him a liar... maybe, just a dreamer. Thinking of it that way kind of takes some of the sting out of it.

I think my MM also tells me stuff I want to hear to avoid conflict. Works pretty well, too. She's, we have to remember that just because we wouldn't do something in a million years to someone, that doesn't mean they wouldn't do it to us. My MM has done tons of stuff. I didn't think he could ever do some of it... mostly because going back into a hole after being out for eight months and then turning around and pissing and moaning that you are back in that same hole is just moronic, IMHO. But, alas, he is not me. I have to remember that he did not do it to *me* - he lied to himself.

Also, remember that life is a personal journey...for everyone...MM and other scumbags included. Remember that you may be farther along on your personal growth journey. You said, "I expected so much more from him, even though this was an A. " The key, I think, here is that you expected something of him. Of course, you did. It doesn't matter if it is an affair. You expect to be treated as you treat others...you are taught the golden rule in kindergarten...we are trained to expect the golden rule... no one ever told us that the golden rule can totally set us up for heartache - the golden rule is a scam. I, too, am having such a hard time accepting that this man is a man with flaws - a real man. I don't think I've ever seen a man for who he really is...oooohhhh, that's sad to admit. I want the guy in the movies (you know, the provider who's the sensitive type and defends me against all evil...you know, every girl's dream).

I think people can only lie to other people that believe those lies. If we don't believe them, it diffuses their lies - the lie becomes meaningless. My fault lies in my belief in something even though the red lights and sirens were blaring otherwise. My enormous pain came not from his mere words - but, from my belief in them. His lies to me were just some words (I'll call you tonight, I wish you were my wife, I'm unhappy in my marriage and want to leave, I'm going to marry you, I will live with you again, etc.) He didn't rob a bank or kill someone (that would take real action :) - he simply just said stuff that he wanted to do but couldn't go through with it at this time in his life (or ever). But, *I* believed his words and *I* believed that people would not lead someone on without the integrity to back up those words. *I* believed that love could move mountains and give people strength. *I* believed that all of my dreams would happen because I would will it to be that way. *I* wrapped my world around his - I was no different than his blind wife. I innocently believed that everyone had the same strength and courage to change their life that I had because I didn't think I was that strong to begin with. I believed in *a miracle*. I still do - they are just different miracles... hopefully smarter ones.

Peace to all of us in 2004

Bird

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-22-2003
Mon, 12-22-2003 - 4:22pm
Bird. This is such a good post. You are so good at verbalizing what we all feel. You said it perfectly - what I was trying to say in my post about lying and actions not following words. I agree that they are not necessarily intentionally lying, because they are lying to themselves as well, and they can't see that either. I do the same as you. I expect others to be like me. I, like you, ended my M. It never occurred to me that he would not do the same. Why? Because he told me over and over that he was. I would have preferred him to say that he was not sure that he could do it. My forgiving nature was also exploited. My xMM also banked on me being there and giving him a second,third, fourth, fifth....chance. I was also a willing participate. I was about as willing as one can be. Maybe our eyes are all wide open now. We do not like what we see and it hurts, but we have taken off our blinders.....for good.

I wish you peace during the holiday,

Lostit

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-22-2003
Mon, 12-22-2003 - 4:30pm
Hi again, She. I am glad you responded to Birds wonderful post. I wanted to apologize about my "Hard to accept that they are lying post". I did not word that very well. I think what I meant to say is what Bird has expressed here. It has more to do with integrity and real intentions. Then, there are those relationships in which someone is really outright lying. Unfortunately, you were involved in one of those. He was lying to you and others at the same time to keep his addiction/sickness going. Your intentions were a lot different from his.

Lostit