Dharma

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2003
Dharma
3
Thu, 04-01-2004 - 12:04pm
Hey Dharma! I wanted to respond to your post on "the other board" that we both visit, but would prefer to do so here because my ideas are totally out of sync with most of the posters there. Let me say first that I'm sorry you're so worn out. Life gets so incredibly difficult, especially when you're in the kind of messes we've both been.

I left "the other" community for many reasons, and one of them was that for some reason I was not able to end my marriage. It wasn't about the financial aspects or being a single parent, and I had another guy standing in the wings just waiting for the opportunity to move in with me. It was about the fear of exactly what you described - how the heck do you know they're changing??? For me, its been a really, really long time since my H acted out. His behavior hasn't offended me since last July, and then it was just that he was annoying me and using bad judgment, it wasn't directed in any way at me.

My H has been dutifully going to therapy for the past 2+ years, ever since I first told him I wanted out of the marriage. He gets up at 6:00 a.m. every Monday and sees his therapist before work. I HAVE seen a change. Your other post makes the valid point, what about the time frame here? How fast/slow does the change need to occur? I don't know, really. But I've seen my H make small changes as the result of therapy. I've seen him try to listen and respect my opinion. I've seen him not assume I'm going to be the one to stay home when one of the kids is sick, because we both work and although he is the primary breadwinner, he knows my job is important to ME. It took a very long time to see the progress, but I finally acknowledge that I feel comfortable that dedicating more than 2 years to the process and trying his hardest to incorporate what he's learned in therapy into our daily life and relationship deserves at least some consideration.

Maybe people never change, I don't know. But I do believe that if they are truly committed they will try to change. Underlying all of his issues is still the man I fell in love with 20 years ago and have been married to for 18 years, we've buried a son together and are raising a severely handicapped son together. In my humble opinion, these events will push anyone to their limits, and maybe I'm totally whacked out, but I just can't hate him because he lost it while all this tragedy was occuring in our lives. For that matter, I lost it too and did some big time damage to the relationship as well. That's not important anymore. What's important is that underlying all that crap, we still do care about each other and are still willing to make some effort to saving the relationship.

How do you know your H will make the effort? Unfortunately, there's no way to tell.

Wait it out. But I can say from my side, I was deeply involved with another man, and my H kept plodding along trying to respect my boundaries and my viewpoint. For all intents and purposes, the marriage was so over. But he kept on trying anyway. He didn't plead with me or make promises. I guess he took a leap of faith and trusted that he really was "the one" for me and in time he'd be able to regain my commitment. I guess he was right.

I just wanted to send you some hugs, and my two cents on this issue. Its so darned confusing, isn't it? And I eventually got tired of trying to talk to pretty much anyone about what was going on, because I started to realize it was the same old thing over and over and over. Sending some love and "clarity" vibes your way. Hang in there, my friend!

mo 7-18-10

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2003
In reply to: momesq1991
Thu, 04-01-2004 - 2:07pm
Momesq~

Thank you, thank you , thank you for responding....I'm having a god awful day, only made worse, I'm sure by pms.

I know you left the other board and was sad to see you go (though I see you post now and again ;-) ). I completely understand why you are doing what you are and I firmly believe that we need to do as much as we can to save a marriage--so that someday if it doesn't work out, we can look ourselves in the mirror and know we tried everything.

And that is where I am....looking in the mirror knowing that I have done everything I possibly could. To refresh: 4 attempts at marriage counseling, 1 GREAT year of change (when I was leaving the first time in 1996), one attempt at Retrouvaille (which I HIGHLY recommend). Its the sad realization that his meager attempts right now are just to keep me here. Since 1997, he's had every opportunity to show me who he REALLY is--and I have given him a chances, plenty of them. I can't tell you how many times I approached him--and in some many different ways. I begged, pleaded, cried, yelled, calmly talked to, gave him his space, wrote him notes...I did everything but stand on my head naked for him. Now he is begging...and there is nothing left for me to do. I can't expound any more energy here. Even IF he did all the changes I would like....I couldn't give back to him....and that is unfair to him. He, too, deserves to be loved in a way he would like and I can no longer do that.

My involvement with exMM was certainly no help...but honestly, the marriage was dead by then. Its just taken me 2.5 years to get the balls to get out. Today, I just feel so "used" by exMM, though it was me pushing everything....but I feel that with him being "older and wiser"--he should have (and did see) these things about me. But then again, I'm just angry at the world today.

As for change....I used to believe that people could change...and I think they can some things...but not their personality. My h's personality is very controlling...and it's what makes him a good engineer too. LOL.

Today I'm just so emotionally whipped...at having to deal with the loss of 2 relationships, none of the being what I thought they were. Its just as if I suddenly woke up to reality...and I'm actually thinking I was better off in denial and in fantasy. How crazy is that?

I also told my H if he REALLY loved me...he would let me go, and continue to make his changes. I think it would be YEARS before I would ever trust him again...and in the meantime, I need to find myself again, seeing that I lost myself in HIM. I also tell him that sometimes people re-marry after divorce....lol.

thank you so much, mom. I can't even tell you what your post meant to me!

dharma

ps...bankruptcy law? heck, move to WNY where the bankruptcy rate is EXTREMELY high...you could make a killing! LOL.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-09-2004
In reply to: momesq1991
Thu, 04-01-2004 - 5:43pm
Oh, Dharma, I'm sorry you're having a tough day! I wish I could return to you all the great perspective, goodwill, and hugs you've given all of us here. Or at least a nice cup of herbal tea for the PMS!

I was thinking metaphorically about you today while planting some seeds (spring break!). You're bound to have some tough times, having pulled up the roots of your marriage and the A. The garden of your life is pretty bare just now, but you have the opportunity to plant your future the way YOU want it, using all the wisdom, self-knowledge, and skills you have gained through your marriage and A. You'll get there. There will be a time when you enjoy the fruits of your reinvented life. I hope that day comes soon, and that you will continue to post here during your "reconstruction".

We are all pulling from you, Dharma!

Many hugs, and lots of goodwill-

mtnsweetheart

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2003
In reply to: momesq1991
Fri, 04-02-2004 - 10:03am
Well, Dharma, I hope you're having a better day today. That pms will kick your butt every time, huh?

Yes, so I see from your response that you have indeed tried everything, and you are understandably exhausted. It just stinks that you're having to bury and mourn 2 long term adult relationships at the same time. Blech! I'm having enough trouble mourning the loss of one. Sometimes the very best we can do is put ourselves in God's hands, surrender to His plan for us and move forward one day at a time. Some days are less painful than others, and I truly wish you some less painful days pronto, you need and deserve them! Hang in there, honey. Love and hugs to you!

FYI - I live in NJ and the bankruptcy rate is pretty high here too - 103,000 consumer filers in 2003 (of course, I only represented about 50 of them! I need a new marketing plan, huh?)

mo 7-18-10