Tough Love

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2009
Tough Love
10
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 11:00am

There have been several posts made in reference to how you would still be in your affairs if it hadn't ended the way it did. We all understand that feelings do not diminish just because a relationship is over, but this was AN AFFAIR people. They are selfish and destructive, and no matter how pretty you wrap these

   ~Iddy~ 


Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2008
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 12:29pm

Well said Iddy!


Whether you think you can or you think you can't you are probably right. A parrot can repeat what it has learned but the mark of true intelligence is applying what is learned.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-18-2010
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 2:25pm

Hello Ladies,

I am no Vet. I am trying to get there...I have been away also. E-1 and Iddy both know that I am a regular, consistent poster. I used to post daily. I still read daily. I have been away lately because for several reasons...guess real life takes over, kids back in school. And secondly, I could not see or deal with the several folk who had problems taking the tough love.

I just realized it today I am 9 mos NC as I write this post. Dec 4th was my expiration date, I was one pathetic puppy. A wet blanket. A hot mess. When I came here the board was different. More a good balance of MW and SW. and a few guys would appear and then disappear. This was my safe place. It was where I felt clothed even tho I was naked. I was welcomed. And I thought I knew it all, but deep down knew I wasn't shiz. And that I truly needed help. N I was so hurt and broken. I had an exAP that I was trying to figure out. I was told to figure myself out. Did not want to hear it. I was stalking. I got tough love and I took it. I fought it for a second, but I humbled myself. I knew that what I doing was not working and a poster said try it this way. The way of the boar- NC. Our Mantra. Our Rule. Its like a commandment in the bible round these parts. Thou shall not break NO CONTACT.

I had to saddle up and put a lot of faith and trust in people that I did not know and will likely never meet. People on a screen. It was odd. But soon I knew that I was in the best hands and that these women cared for me when I did not care for myself. They truly cared. They had BTDT. They taught me to focus on me and work on me as I was all I had control over. I realized that exAP did not love me, did not care for me, and I did not care for or love him. NOT Really anyway.

I realized that my past was just things I had done, NOT WHO I WAS. I was not a bad person. I was not worthless, evil, a whore, a slut...I was not dirty. I was worth something. I was worth loving. I was somebody. I was someone without exAP. I did not need him to validate me. I had to do that. I did not need his or any other mans attention to make feel pretty. I did not need them to define me or my worth. My love had to come within. I had to feed my own ego. Make it healthy. Not over indulge, not under indulge. I dug deep and I realized that there was nothing great or grand about my affair or any of the other self abusive behaviors I engaged in. I did it so often it became so regular and normal. I became addicted to drama. N I just stayed in bad relationships. One after another, complete and utter pain and devastation. I felt like at least I was not alone. and I kept feeling like I just did more I would be happy. I would get what I needed. That JAM would give it to me. If only I was smarter, sexier, tried harder, I would finally be happy and whole and life would be grand....have that is not the biggest joke

Tough love stopped that twisted way of thinking. It FORCED me to take a long hard look at myself. It forced me to re-evaluate my entire being. Tough love set me straight and allowed me to free myself from years of self-pity and self-abuse.

So when I am constantly trying to convince one that A's are what Iddy described and you are romanticizing it. And going on and on about how wonderful he was and the soulmate blah, blah, blah and I spend lots of and lots of time posting and you are still hell bent on believing that you know he/she loved you and but for his W or H you would ride into the sunset ona pretty white horse and live happily ever after, I TEND TO LOSE A LIL PATIENCE....

So then comes my tough love and then I get replies that I have hurt somebody's feelin's, I have offended them....And although never my intent to be hurtful, I wind up apologizing for coming off harsh. I do not apologize for what I am saying, as E-1 stated, I will not enable, I will call a spade a spade but I am sensitive so I am sensitive to others....That last thing I want to do is scare someone off. I feel they are better here than going it alone and/or re-engaging an affair. But I felt once again, I was compromising myself. And so I had to take a break. This pained me more than you can imagine. This was my home. N I no longer felt useful or comfortable. I was pretty frustrated. I even took down my pic, thinking that may have been affecting the responses to my post. I was not sure, but I figured it could not hurt to be more anonymous.

Then the tool of patience kicked in. I gained that tool at this very place, and I had to come back....here I am. Back and to stay. Was not gone too long but Iddy's post inspired me to come back and do what I do well. Nurture, comfort, support and heal myself and others.

Crazy part is, and I do realize this is A fog, -we will accept so much mistreatment from exAP's, she/he can lie to you, hurt you, treat you like your nothing....and you take it. You take em back, you settle for it. But when someone comes to you and offers help, insight, hope, support, a bottle of Windex for those rose colored glasses/goggles, we reject it....we do not want to hear it. We whine about our feelings being hurt and how we are devastated and how we do not know you or your A and how your A was different.....

Lesson learned-my road to recovery is not like everyone else's. How I took in what was said is not to be expected of everyone. YOU have to want to end it. You have to be able to have faith in the unknown, you have to listen and humble yourselves to strangers....no easy task. BUT if you do not get on the same path n ways of the the pain is much worse. Thats hard to see when in the fog. But it gets hard when you are posting to fall on deaf ears. It gets hard when you see someone falling right before your eyes and you know that you can not make em see it. It gets frustrating when you are trying to steer the vehicle in the right direction and you are just the passenger. This too has taught me so much. I just have to accept that people will come and go from this board. Some will be resistant....some will not. Some will heal move on and heal and get back to real life, others will stay in A hell. And yes it is a HELL. N I am not going to apologize for saying that. They are all bombs as Iddy described and if you have even see an image of a place of a locale where a bomb has exploded, all you see is carnage, death, and devastation left. A's are no different.

When I read on MAS. I am sickened. I am so sorry to see the posts....mostly all of em, pain, humilaition, self abuse. Cruelty. I was there. I was that messed up. So this board EAS is the my place to be and when I see those rejecting and/or faulting our tough love. I am hurt and discouraged. I am frustrated. Yet, here I am writing this long post. Hoping someone is affected in a positive way. I figure, if I make a difference in one persons life, my time and efforts are well worth it. I am going to continue to give back. I swore to and I will.

I owe it to my vets, my tweeners, and even those new newbies....I would give shout outs but you all have probably read enough. The vets and my fellow tweeners know that I am one of those flies in a small room that just keep annoying yah with my buzzzz.....LOL. They also know how I truly feel about em and how I wish em and everyone on the board to be their best selves. This board is gem.

Much love and I missed you all....esp the laughs, support and respect and honorand loyalty....yes honor amongst us, many would say would do not have any and we are not worthy of it....thats simply not true and this board is living proof.Luvin
Yo Soy EL Capitan de Mi Vida




Edited 9/4/2010 3:59 pm ET by luvinmeforever10
Luvin
Yo Soy EL Capitan de Mi Vida
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2010
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 3:26pm

Hello All,

I had been thinking about writing a post of this sort for a while - as I have found myself sinking back from this board too. I have felt unappreciated and mis-understood by those I was giving endless amounts and time and energy to: providing resources, experiences, love and encouragement. I have found myself unbelievably tired as of late.

I like to think I can understand where people are coming from. That I can understand the utter disappointment, hurt, frustration, shock, dis-belief. My affair devastated me and my family - my xAP and his family. We had Ddays (both planned) ... we thought we were in 'love'. We spent hours and hours together (every day). We came to be close to one another's partners and children. We were colleagues and co-researchers/writers. We traveled. You name it, we did it. We met family, we shared friends etc ... and guess what, it ended. I ended it. It broke my freaking heart. It broke his heart. It destroyed our families. Like DESTROYED them. My children are dealing with separation, and his family is dealing with their own devastating fallout.

Ya - it sucks that the affair ended. It sucks WAY MORE that we were so unwell that we wrapped ourselves in a fantasy bubble at the expense of everyone who loved us. We stole from them. We stole time, resources, care & concern. We miss-directed our attention. We invested in a falling 'stock'. We became so self-absorbed that nothing mattered except 'us'. It was sick and wrong.

And don't get me wrong, I am about as non-traditional/alternative as it gets - politically, academically and otherwise. BUT in no culture, in no alternative life-style is lying, manipulating, deceiving dis-respectful behavior accepted as part of the life-style. Open marriages, polyamory - whatever, even they require the upmost in transparency to even have shot at 'working'.

So - if you are hurt that your affair is over, ya - we have ALL felt that kinda pain. We have had our affair bubbles popped. Some of us are enders and others endees - whatever - does is matter in the end? NO NO NO! Just because you weren't the one to end it - well, don't use it as an excuse to stay stuck - to stay fixated on how it could have just been over, how s/he should have respected you enough to have done A B C - in a perfect world we wouldn't have had affairs. How the end is of little consequence - sorry to those who think that it matters. ENDING IS WHAT MATTERS. The rest of how it plays out is a bonus - but in no way, shape or form is the ending indicative of your worth, how much you were 'loved' or how good a person you thought s/he was. If they/we were capable of being in an affair, we are already capable of cruelty. Don't be surprised when this cruelty is turned on you. My only suggestion is for those in affairs TO END it as fast as they can, scrapping their last bit of dignity off the ground.

And when it ends? Well, that's just the beginning. Time to start working the work of re-framing your experience. This isn't about whether or not you had a fabulous 'connection' - it is about two people who lack integrity, courage and self/other respect. It is about two people who feel entitled, who feel so darn smug that they can get away with sneaking behind the backs of those who trust them the most.

And if you're single - that doesn't give you some out just because you didn't take the vow. Come on, you're colluding with someone else who you think you love to have them hurt the people s/he vowed to love and protect. Where is the dignity in that? Where is the higher moral ground? My husband had left me because of my affair, and one year later, I was the one who ended my affair. I had nothing left to lose in my RL - except myself.

With the help of this board, I was able to finally see that saving myself was reason enough to end my affair. I was worth it. I was worth a life of dignity. I was drawing my own line in the sand - saying NO ONE was ever going to ask me to settle for crumbs again. I was NO longer going to accept them. So - I walked out of my affair at a time when I would need to stand totally on my own while patching up the lives of my children who had been so hurt as a direct consequence of my actions.

So - I may come across as a little unsympathetic, a little "tough lovish" at times. You know why? Because it matters to me. 'YOU' matter to me, and the families 'YOU' are going to destroy matter to me. Because I don't want to see others dilly dally around, farting away the second chances they get to live a better way.

I didn't find this board in time, and I have little patience for those trying to unlearn the insights they gain here. Yes we all mess up, yes leaving is a process, yes it is full of pain, missing, longing for those fixes - but choosing to dis-regard the comments/opinions time and time again IS NOT messing up - it is a commitment to staying in an affair, junky mindset that serves no one here well. Least of all 'yourself'.

I see EAS as a refuge, a place to re-build the broken and to re-establish healthier thinking patterns and coping mechanisms. THIS is not a place to be enabled and coddled.

EAS saved my life. EAS allowed me to stop the damage before further damage was done to my self-esteem. EAS was my life-boat in the scarcest, darkest waters I had ever found myself in. EAS set expectations of my conduct and encouraged accountability and responsibility. EAS was my compass when I was so incredibly lost. 'YOU' can trust your own compass - your own best thinking right now, but at some point that thinking got you into an affair. Maybe it is time to turn your trust over to those who have ended, and found full lives to be lived outside of their affair.

With Love & Care,

TU.

LC/NC since April 14, 2010

"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it."
— Maya Angelou




Edited 9/4/2010 3:50 pm ET by transcendingus
LC/NC since April 14, 2010

"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it."
— Maya Angelou
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-18-2010
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 3:46pm
I missed you TU.....you and Dee and many others....great post
Luvin
Yo Soy EL Capitan de Mi Vida
Luvin
Yo Soy EL Capitan de Mi Vida
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2010
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 4:31pm

Oh, gosh, and did I miss you Luvin!

Times where I would scroll down a post, and just hope you had jumped in! I am so happy to see that you're back. We ALL need you (-:

I also wanted to clarify - that this board is FULL of amazing newbies, tweeners and vets ... and it is their varied strengths and insights that keep this board flourishing. I feel cared for here in a most authentic way. In a way that isn't temporary, transient or complicated and contingent. That's an incredible feeling.

I was nodding my head with you about the irony of what we accepted during the affair vs. what is freely given here and how it is treated with deep suspicion. It signifies just how unwell we ALL come to be. Can't trust even our own shadows. Gosh, it almost comes off as some unique manifestation of stolkholme syndrome wherein the people we are hurt by/hurt the most, are hailed as soul mates.

A great point Luvin.

TU.

LC/NC since April 14, 2010

"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it."
— Maya Angelou

LC/NC since April 14, 2010

"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it."
— Maya Angelou
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2010
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 4:58pm

I've missed you too Luvin! I understand needing to deal with RL. I spent so much time the past 2 months reading and posting on and off all day, my work really took a back seat. Necessary at the time, but I have had to refocus a little.

TU -

<<<>>>

That couldn't be MORE true. If I ever start reminiscing about how wonderful Mr. Toxic was I want ya'll to kick me in the head!

Bodhi

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-29-2010
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 5:01pm

I appreciate everything that everyone says here, and I think anyone who is thinking of ending or ending should have a place on the board.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-18-2010
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 5:09pm
Can you imagine how the vets feel? Or Iddy for that matter? Yikes.....we are def learning and growing and thats what matter.
Luvin
Yo Soy EL Capitan de Mi Vida
Luvin
Yo Soy EL Capitan de Mi Vida
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2010
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 5:23pm

"I think when people say they would still be in the A if something had not have happened is the truth. The key is that something did happen and now that person is in need of support."

GEP - I think most of us here couldn't agree with you more! Your post was wonderful and reflective of how most of us feel here. I guess what I am referring to is the inability/unwillingness to work the NC process. That means, yes, however you arrived here, with whatever kinda ending you had, that over time you begin to look deeply at the inherently, insidious nature of affairs. You know, move past the literal NC phase, to the taking accountability phase. We have referred to NC without the work, as similar to being a dry drunk. Ya - you aren't getting drunk anymore, but neither are you doing the work to figure out why you were in the first place. This leaves you vulnerable to repeating the same mistakes - maybe with just a different 'vice'.

Support for those thick in the FOG - comes in the form of tough love balanced with care & concern. As I see it, the FASTER we can assist with moving the fog away, the sooner the pain stops and the healing happens. I really don't want to see people hurting longer than necessary, and I think this is why most of us work so hard to get a newbie out of that fog. Once that fog starts to clear, a newbie can move quite quickly from feeling victimized and broken, to empowered and resolute. KWIM?

BUT - and as I need reminding - we each have our own paths to walk, and lessons to learn along the way. We each stumble and need to pick ourselves back up. We each need to feel cared for here. It is a tricky balance to strike: providing support and compassion without collusion. The vets are my mentors for this, and I still have a lot to learn from them. From each of you (-:

TU.

LC/NC since April 14, 2010

"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it."
— Maya Angelou

LC/NC since April 14, 2010

"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it."
— Maya Angelou
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2010
In reply to: cl_iddy2009
Sat, 09-04-2010 - 6:07pm

TU.. I LOVED what you said and the honesty in your posts is so very appreciated. I could tell you that it was speaking to me in high volumes. I myself have no problem with the tough love. Actually when I turn to a friend I want them to be my voice of reason. I am obviously in a "fog" and I need a wake up call. That is why I appreciate people like yourselves who tell it like it is. Because really it is what it is. No matter how much we try to fluff the situation it is TOXIC and hurtful to many. Everyday is a struggle but not just missing XMM it is with myself. I torture myself for the "idiotic" things I have done. I am trying to surpass the feelings of guilt and the horror that I have caused for myself. I dont get angry at XMM for what he has done; I am angry and saddened for what I had allowed for myself. I am still in pain and I do find I slip into the "missing the feel goods" but that is a quick fix. It is so easy to pick up the pipe (as it was described on this board LOL) but to commit is the hard work. I recently just fully discovered why NC means cutting off all avenues of communication because I had forgotten to take him off IM and he signed in as I was chatting. One min I was talking BS/ laughing with friends and the next (as soon as XMM signed in) I was a wreck. He didnt do anything he was just there. And just look at the effect it had. Well I deleted him from that as well. So the tactics to overcome A on this board is very clear to me. And in real honesty regardless of the pain and suffering that we have endured imagine the pain and suffering on the innocent. Now that is not fair if we want to talk about fairness. I personally dont want to hurt anyone and was never my intention (oh another struggle I have) not caring (while in A) about the innocent parties. I really didnt. Sure I felt the guilt here and there which brought me end it a million times. I dont care how horrible of a spouse that person may be NO ONE deserves to be betrayed in that way. LEAVE if not happy. Anyway, I am greatful for this board as it is teaching me to love again in an honest way. To love myself. Real love is that of caring for others not being deceitful and in secret. I want real honest pure love in my life. That was the most toxic experience I had ever endured. I hate the monster I had become. I was never that person. I guess coping with what I was actually capable of freaked me out.

Thank you EVERYONE!!!! KEEP IT REAL!!!!

Pages