Hey Jeep! My Counselor said....

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Hey Jeep! My Counselor said....
3
Tue, 05-25-2004 - 2:32pm
Jeephead, this is in response to your reply in the "Expectations" string. Mrs. & I felt it'd be helpful to others who haven't read that string yet.

The biggest surprise for me and my wife during our counseling was the fact that we had to "learn how to receive" just as well as we already mastered how to give. Interesting, huh?

She and I were the absolute CLASSIC example (according to the counselor) of a couple who consistently supressed itself from one another.

We were so certain that (1) everything had to be mutually enjoyed at the same time, (2) it was better to not receive from the other that the one wasn't willing to do--such as oral--which the counselor called the "guilt of fairness" syndrome, and (3) the receiver had to stop the enjoyment as to not over-indulge on the pleasure being given.

(Please note that this is counseling provided to the Para's and NOT intended to suggest that all else should do things this way, so take the info as you please) So...the counselor 'trained' us to:

1) STOP feeling guilty for enjoying something. If the giver is still giving, then don't ever stop enjoying it until either its enough or until you can't handle anymore OR if you'd like to save whatever energy/breath/etc. you have left for something mutual, such as intercourse. By doing things this way, she & I learned to stop worrying about pushing beyond one's limit or even time limit. YES its elementary thinking, but sometimes she & I naturally need reminding or retuning on things anyway. LOL!

2) Nothing is ever going to be fair, so don't bother and just enjoy! LOL!! Wifey hit me with fellatio LONG time ago before I even considered cunnilingus her. Now that is not an issue and according to her "bursts" I'm REALLY doing her right too...WHOO! Anyway, if its been a while since I went down on her or even gave her a backrub, but she feels like pleasing me more often those ways anyway, then my orders were to shut up and enjoy! SSSSTOP feeling guilty about when its my turn to do something or how often so I can catch up, etc. If our relationship is truly secure and based on TRUST, then I shouldn't EVER have to worry about feeling guilty and Mrs. Para shouldn't ever have to worry about whether or not I'm being selfish, just enjoy and do what I feel like doing whenever I am actually ready. If I return a gift out of guilt, then I blew it. THIS is about te trusting relationship, so enjoy it or be the same old same old before coming to counseling in the first place.

Whew, this lady had a knack for verbal spankings...I tell ya. LOL!

3) Finally, sigh, learning to receive involves letting go and being completely selfish. Just because receiving "the right way" means being selfish...(pause)...

...remember, these are the words the counselor used to get through to our thick skulls, lol...

...DOESN'T mean that you can't also appreciate it. This again goes back to TRUSTING each other to both KNOW and REMEMBER that you both know these things. The receiver should NEVER have to worry about whether or not the giver knows the pleasure is appreciated because quite frankly the giver should never have to worry about whether or not the receiver appreciates it in the first place. If you can't trust each other in a secure relationship to already know and feel these things, then nothing in this counseling session will work anyway. ALLOW open communication and DO NOT take exception to anything said. If the giver says thats enough, then the receiver is not to feel guilty about, "Whoops, did I push it too far?" Just appreciate it and DO NOT feel obligated to return anything until you are ready...BECAUSE...the giver, as of this session, is now ordered to expect 'nothing' in return for it. It is either a one-sided gift, or it truly isn't. If it isn't going to be, don't bother; if it is, then do what I say! You're paying good money for this! The trust you have actually keeps you from thinking, anymore, about whether or not you "should" do something. "Should" no longer has a place in your gift. If you're doing something mutual, such as 69 or intercourse, then thats for a different session, but when you're choosing to please one another, we have just set your communication and established your trust, so have fun!

Okay, so this lady was the type that if she were a doctor, she'd be the one to spank babies. RAOFL!! Anyway, Mrs. Para & I took that step a little further. We decided to trust each other to discuss fantasies, even if it meant a little embarrassment and also the possibility of refusal. We really didn't seem to have any inhibitions other than we both aren't into anything anal or bondage-wise or too far into "items" sorta speak. So we discovered that we're actually more compatible than we thought. At times we would ask if one were "willing to try" something here or there, even though it was clear that it wasn't liked . Sometimes yes, sometimes no...but the important thing was we "allowed" that communication anyway and trusted each other to not feel pressured by it NOR guilty for asking. I'm not a mind reader, so if she were in the mood for something that I didn't feel for back whenever, then I'd be offended that she didn't trust me enough to ask me to be the one to satisfy her. When it comes to something that we declared off limits, then THAT is never asked. Learning what bothers us about 'off limits' stuff helps us learn more about each other too, so we don't mind talking about it without feeling pressured, but hopefully that isn't so rare among relationships.

Now honestly, jeep, I think I still view some of the comments by others, including Free, to still be a bit different from the views that the Mrs. & I have. Others seem to be so incredibly cautious about not pushing and not bringing anything up again because its THEN called pressure...but I think that still depends on which relationship and is not the same for ALL. I view doing something completely for the other as a gift, and because of the way my marriage was 'trained' for sex, if you will, I don't view things as being a "sacrifice" to suppress my own needs for the sake of keeping the Mrs. from giving. If I'm not ready to give, even after we've talked about it certain times, then its not a gift from her when she says "okay, don't do it." LOL!! Just because I chose not to give my employee a raise doesn't mean my employee sacrificed for me my sacrifice would be had I given the raise. I personally see that as WAAAAY different. Thats just an example of how I see things differently than others may. So anyway, I wouldn't say that I had the same points as others across the spectrum of points, but I do see how you viewed that. Thanks for the kind words, nice of ya.

 

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Tue, 05-25-2004 - 3:24pm
O.K> I think this may be where you are getting the wrong Idea about me. My concern is not that I feel guilty about recieving pleasure, or that I don't want it, but I am more afraid of my erectile dysfunction, and her reaction to it. I love recieving oral sex, almost as much as I love giving it to her. The problem arises when I see the look on her face when I go soft, mid BJ. It tears me up, and eats at me. I end up hating myself for the grief I end up causeing her. She starts feeling like she cannot keep me aroused, and then starts into the idea that she no longer knows how to please me. I tried and tried to tell her over and over again that she does please me, and that I do enjoy it, but now I am beginning to not enjoy it, because of the fear I feel over failure. I see my going soft on her as failing her, because she does want to do it, and when she is enjoying it, I do to, but then it just goes soft, not fully, but enough for her to tell, and then its all shot to hell, cause she stops, and looks at me with those eyes. They burn through me, straight to my heart, and I die a little more each time. I am almost in tears here just telling you this, because I know what it is like to try and turn someone one, working and working only to have them look back at you with such pain, because nothing is happening. I don't like that feeling, and instead of going through it again, I try to avoid it. I need to get over it, I know, but until she realizes that if I do go a little soft during, it does not mean she is doing anything wrong, or not doing something right, or even that I am not enjoying it. All it means is I am having a problem, and I am working on the solution. Doing my excersizes, and keeping myself in shape. Taking vitamins again daily, and drinking lots of milk. Trying to get myself back into the shape I was in when we met, fresh out of the Navy Combat Camera unit. Maybe the issue is my self image now, I don't know. I had a very bad experience when I was in Highschool with a girl, who several years later I ended up marrying, and four years after that, divorsed on incredibly bad terms. Recently I had a similar experience with her, and it started the problem I am currently trying to deal with, or rather, that is when the problem started, for the most part. She has been able to give me one BJ since then successfully, and the rest I just go slightly soft during. It eats at me, but I don't let it get me down. Instead, I have focused my energy, and ability on making her happy, both in the bedrrom, and outside of it. My whole life focus shifted, and for a lnog time I was so wrapped up in giving her orgasm after orgasm, after orgasm. My goal was ten in one session, or night!!! Have not made it yet, but as we get batter, the pressure decreases, and the lust starts playing a larger factor, I am sure I will make it with ease. LOL It is a large problem, but thankfully, it doesn't seem to affect our relationship very much as she is still my best friend. She is the greatest lover I have ever known, and no one even comes close. So, if you can make out what my problem really is, I will be amazed, as I cannot tell for myself. LOL Thanks for the info. I am going to do my best to apply it to my life as well. Hopefully it helps, and I will keep you posted. Great post by the way. Very informative. I hope others read it and take what they can from it. Thanks again.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 05-28-2004 - 9:44am
Awesome for you, Jeep! Sounds like things are just getting better with age, ey? :)

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify...I wasn't getting any idea about 'you' at all, but I was describing to you the difference I personally see in how the Mrs. & I view married sex (because of the counselor) and the view that other posters have. You felt that my points were to as some of the other posters' that you've read, so I just wanted to detail the differences that I was pointing out from what 'they' were pointing.

{Maybe} someone could benefit from what our counselor helped us with, but it'd take some reading...lol...what're the odds? ;)

 

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2004
Fri, 05-28-2004 - 10:24am
Actually your post helped me. LOL It was something that was said that triggered a response. I know you meant no offense by the post, and I did not take offense to it, I just see certain things differently than most of the people on this board, unfortunately. I do agree with a lot of there posts, but seeing things through blinders is hard enough, let alone being able to give advice on it. So many people here on this board see everything with blinders on, and though they may have some sort of similar experience, they need to remember that the blinders are there, and they cannot see the whole picture. Even my posts are one sided posts, and because of that, are probably not 100% accurate. Your post I am sure will help others for a while to come. It has some very good ideas, and comments regarding marriage, and sex. I do appreciate your concern and your comments to me on this issue. It is great to have others out there, who know nothing more about you than you tell them, making life altering desicions for you, not talking about you specifically, but the board in general. LOL We may think we are giving advice, but throwing weights onto a scale still ends up tilting it. I am not the one to preach about opinions though, as many of mine are viewed as wrong, or just totally messed up. Then, some are taken for what they are worth. My opinion. It's not worth the pot you piss in if you don't agree with it, right?? It is just my opinion. There is no eed for offense, defense, or any real sense!!!! LOL. I digress, and ramble here, bad combo, so I will close with a simple thank you to you and the mrs, for sharing your experience with the counselor, and for helping me get over my issues. Not quite there yet, but working towards it steadily.