Need advice on LTR, please.
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| Tue, 04-19-2005 - 4:10pm |
I will have been dating “Tom”, a widowed physician, for 2 years this August. We’re both around 50. Our relationship became exclusive and monogomous after dating for about 3 months, and has been ever since. Tom has known from the start that I'd like to remarry someday.
About a year ago, Tom started developing some physical problems after taking an astronaut simulator ride at an amusement park. These problems include back pain, chest pain, neck pain, headaches, dizziness, cramping, trouble sleeping, anxiety and depression. Tom has seen at least a dozen doctors to try and get to the bottom of this and figure out what it is. He traveled to another state to see a specialist last Oct. He's had pain injections and physical therapy. And since September, he's been taking anti-depressant medication. He started weaning himself off the medication 2-3 months ago, and has now been off it completely for two weeks. Unfortunately, a lot of the old symptoms have reappeared.
Tom has his good days and his bad dasy. You can't tell by looking at him that anything is wrong. But this disease is still unresolved, Tom's still not completely certain what it is (he suspects it's myofascial pain syndrome - basically, muscle pain), and Tom still doesn't know if it will get worse, stay the same, or get better. And if it does .... when.
Since last fall, we’ve talked casually about marriage several times. He often jokes, “After we’re married….” We've even looked at houses - for fun. Earlier this year, I told Tom that I’d like to be engaged by our 2-year anniversary, and then marry in the summer or fall of next year when his third child is off to college. But even though Tom jokes "After we're married....," I've gotten subtle hints from Tom that he doesn’t feel he can make any real plans for our future until he figures out what’s going on with himself physically.
The medication he was on, and the ones he's considering taking next, take several weeks to "get up to speed" and then several more weeks to "get off of completely". So it's a time consuming process. It could take months for him to figure out the best medication to take. It could take months - or another year or two - to figure out if this disease will get better, get worse, stay the same. Meantime.... I'm left on hold.
How long should I wait to know if Tom will marry me? How plausible is his excuse/reason not to get engaged this August, especially when I’m suggesting we not marry for another year? How much more time do I invest in this relationship?
Please share your thoughts. Thanks.

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Hey there, I was wondering what happened to you, and whether you were still with this guy! Nice to hear from you.
I think you need to cut to the chase...don't settle for "subtle hints", ASK him if he sees anything standing in the way of getting engaged this summer and getting married within a year from that. I'd also tell him that for YOU, his physical health is not an issue (assuming that's the case--is it?).
After nearly two years together, you should be able to have frank, open talks about *everything*, and get straight answers.
Sheri
Sherri - I've told him his physical health is not an issue for me. And he's told me what's "standing in the way" of our getting engaged this summer: his health. Assume he's told me something like, "I can't ask you to marry me or make any firm plans for us to marry, and I can't get engaged, until I have a better idea of what this disease is and how it's going to affect me -- long term."
So my questions to you remain... What do I do? How valid is this reason (or is it an excuse)? How much longer should I wait for Tom to propose? How much more time do I invest in this relationship? Do I give him a deadline? If so, when?
NOTE: He dated his late wife about 8 years before they married (they met in HS at age 17) and I'm pretty sure she said, "marry me or I'm gone".
Edited 4/19/2005 4:27 pm ET ET by krn2004
Edited 4/19/2005 4:28 pm ET ET by krn2004
Ok. Then, you decide how long you're willing to wait without being married if this never got resolved. That may be today...it may be six months from now...it may be a year from now...or it could be forever. And yes, I would communicate your thoughts on that to him...something along the lines of "I know you've said that you aren't willing to get engaged or married until you resolve your health issues. I am not comfortable with waiting an indefinite amount of time to move forward. I love you, but being married is extremely important to me, as you know. If nothing has changed in x amount of time, I'm going to need to move on." But you have to be willing to stick with the deadline if you choose to share it with him.
I personally would also ask him WHY he feels that way, get to the bottom of the reasoning behind it (with couples counseling, if necessary) and try to reach a resolution that works for both of you.
Sheri
If I was him, I'd be the same way. Also, men always feel like they have to provide and support a wife. So, if he's physically unable to support you, he probably feels he can't be a good husband, and therefore, isn't going to marry you. Many men want to feel they can save the world, before marrying. And if they can't, they won't. that's just the manly way, and pride.
Also, if I was in his situation, I'd want to know what was going on with me first.....mostly because I wouldn't want to be a burden to ANYONE. I don't care if you loved me and was okay with that, *I* wouldn't be okay with it.
So. I guess it's time to ask yourself if you're willling to wait until he finds out what is goign on with his body....or if you're ready to walk. I don't care if YOU don't see his health as a problem HE does. And therefore, that's a valid reason, to him, to not get engaged. Also, I highly recommend you DO NOT give him any sort of ultimatum. Especially since you already know he won't get engaged until he knows what is going on. He already stated that. You know that.
The ball is in YOUR court. Either accept that he doesn't want engagement until he figures out what is going on with his health (REGARDLESS of the love he has for you or you for him), OR walk away and find someone else who can answer that question.
Good luck. It's not an easy decision. BTW, why is a specific timeline so important to you? I know I tell my men I date, I want to be married or engaged within 2.5-3 years, however, I also tell them that it depends on the circumstances if I'll push that back. I have pushed it back with my dbf, due to circumstances. Otherwise, I'd be walking soon.
Hugs.
Welcome krn...
I really don't have a lot to add.
Steffy
CO-cl of Is It Meant to Be?
Search your heart carefully. Is this man REALLY what you want? Someone who vacillates? Straddles the fence (another one?)? Do you really think that your goals mirror each other? That you want the same things in life? Do you really think he wants you? These are all questions I would be asking myself. But like I said before, it's all relative.....Becky
UPDATE: Last night I asked Tom to stop saying "when we are married" and "after we're married" and other stuff along those lines until we're engaged. He hit the ceiling.
Tom said, "I've told you I want to marry you (he has). I've never said I don't want to marry you. But last Dec., you told me marriage 'wasn't even on the radar screen' (I did tell him this.... because we'd had an enormous fight). A few weeks ago, you emailed me that we need to figure out if it makes sense to keep dating (I did say that, in response to something he said, I don't remember what exactly). YOU are the one who's said these things, not me. Now you expect me to get engaged in a few months??"
Tom also said, "By asking me not to ever say "when we're married...", you've now put an enormous "restriction" on our relationship. You'vepushed me away."
Tom wants to be able to talk about 'practical' issues, regardless of whether we're engaged. He said he was hoping we'd look at houses this summer so he could get an idea of where I would want to live and the kind of house I'd want. He said he was hoping I'd start going through his stuff, helping him figure out what to keep/throw away.
At some point during this heated argument, Tom said, "Don't you think we should expect to be engaged by the end of 2006?" I said, "Tom, I expect us to be *married* by the end of 2006."
I'm flabbergasted. What do you all think?
A couple thoughts/questions:
1. Did you explain to Tom exactly WHY you didn't want him to keep making those remarks? If so, is he unable to empathize with your feelings on the matter?
2. It seems that you're addressing the symptoms not the cause. Him saying those things isn't really the issue is it? It's that you need to understand exactly why he doesn't want to get married now...and that you feel (I would assume) that it's unfair of him to say those things when it's not clear that you ever WILL be getting married due to the barrier (his health) he's put into place.
3. If you've discussed getting engaged since the fight in December (and my understanding is that you've done so recently, when you mentioned to him you'd like to be engaged by August), then IMO he's totally out of line in bringing up something you said earlier than that. Besides, if he really believes "marriage isn't even on the radar screen", why does he keep saying those things about "after we're married"???? That's dirty fighting, IMO.
4. Have the two of you considered counseling? I think it's time to do so. As a starting point, I'd get and read "Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" by John Gottman, and if you can find a Gottman-trained counselor, that's the way to go IMO (I don't know if you saw articles on the recent study on "traditional" marriage counseling not working but John Gottman's been saying that for years and backing it up with research and alternatives).
Sheri
Sherri,
I *tried* to explain to Tom why I didn't want him beginning sentences, "when we're married" or "after we're married". I tried, but he refuses to understand or genuinely can't understand. He thinks there's no reason NOT to be talking like that, even though we're not engaged, because we've both told each other we want to marry each other, and because Tom simply assumes we WILL end up married - **someday**. He thinks my asking him to stop talking that way puts our relationship on a more formal basis (which he doesn't want) and "pushes him away".
Tom seems to be making our getting married into a huge production. Will we buy or build a house? Will we have separate checking accounts? What stuff will we keep/throw away? If we build, what kind of kitchen countertops will you want? Tom thinks we should be talking about this stuff NOW, even though we're not even engaged yet. Why do you think he feels that way? It makes no sense to me. It's almost as if Tom needs to be reassured that yes, we can work out the details. Yes, we can agree on these types of things. BEFORE we get engaged.
NOTE: It was me, not Tom, who said "marriage isn't even on the radar screen" last Dec. I said it because we'd had a huge fight, and I was thinking ... how can we marry, when it's like this? Sorry if that wasn't clear.
We saw a counselor 5-6 times a year ago. Counseling won't help and we're beyond it now.
Tom said nothing about his health last night. Now, I'm not so sure his health is why he doesn't want us to be engaged by our 2-year dating anniversary (which is 8-28-05). In February, I said, "I'd like to be engaged by my birthday" (that is 8-5-05). He didn't react well when I said that. So I've been wondering .... does Tom really want to marry me, or not? **Someday** is meaningless. Does Tom want to make firm plans to marry -- ie, start setting dates to get engaged and to marry -- or doesn't he?
One of the last things Tom said last night was, "I just want it to be easy". What do you think of that?
Tom's comment, "don't you think we should both assume we'll be engaged by the end of 2006?" (that's not a typo - he said *2006*, not 2005). What do you think of that? I was stunned.
Edited 4/22/2005 1:48 pm ET ET by krn2004
Edited 4/22/2005 1:50 pm ET ET by krn2004
Edited 4/22/2005 1:53 pm ET ET by krn2004
Edited 4/22/2005 1:54 pm ET ET by krn2004
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